Campaign Finance Taking ANOTHER Beating

[Guest MikeSC]

According to drudgereport.com (laugh if you wish, but he's accurate FAR more often than not), moveon.org had named an "international campaigns director" to get money from international sources for its litany of anti-Bush ads. They've received monies from Britain, Canada, and Portugal thus far.

 

We ALSO have a link from Wesley Clark's official website which directs you to canadaforclark.com/donations.html, which says: "Non-Americans can't by law, give money to any particular candidate's campaign. But we can support pro-democracy, progressive American organizations like MoveOn.org, which do their best to spread the ugly truth about Bush and publicize the Democratic message. Click here to donate to MoveOn.org."

 

So, Clark's OFFICIAL web site is ACTIVELY encouraging the violation of campaign finance law AND informs everybody as to the real purpose of moveon.org.

 

I know what you're thinking --- WHAT ABOUT DEAN?

 

Well, "Dean04Worldwide.com is a noncommercial and volunteer website offered by Corinne Sinclair, a non-US citizen, based in London. Domain registration information indicates the website name servers are owned by PromoHosting.com, a website hosting service based in Portugal. Dean04Worldwide.com encourages non-Americans across the global to help Dean win the 2004 election.

 

A notice on the website explains how to provide funds to MoveOn.org, since non-Americans cannot donate directly to the Dean campaign."

 

Moveon.org has just stopped accepting int'l money recently to avoid "the appearance of impropriety".

 

NOW, since the Dems clearly have so little qualms about flat-out violating the law --- can somebody tell me, again, WHY we passed further laws that would, well, make informing people about this a problem?

-=Mike

[Guest Cerebus]

Is this flat out violating the law? How so? It seems that Moveon.org is just like AEI, Brookings, Cato etc. I'm not quite clear how foreigners donating to them is violating campaign-finance law.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

It's Clark;

 

The man doesn't know his head from his ass. I really doubt he has any clue about legal campaign finance.

[Guest MikeSC]

Is this flat out violating the law? How so? It seems that Moveon.org is just like AEI, Brookings, Cato etc. I'm not quite clear how foreigners donating to them is violating campaign-finance law.

They are buying air time to influence American elections which is a rather clear violation of U.S election law (which outlaws ANY foreign involvement in U.S elections).

 

In OTHER news:

 

I could also mention that Joe Wilson, whose wife was "exposed" by the Bush administration (I seem to have missed, you know, the evidence behind the accusation --- but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt), refers to the Bush administration as, I quote, "assholes and thugs" (http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3449870&p1=01%7C%7C%7C%7C001)

 

I could ask why this guy was ever used as an investigator for the Niger weapons claim and question whether his being named as an investigator IS the bigger story --- but I won't.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I could ask why this guy was ever used as an investigator for the Niger weapons claim and question whether his being named as an investigator IS the bigger story --- but I won't.

                    -=Mike

Wha-?

 

Oh, Niger.

 

For a second I thought this thread was going to turn into yet another "MikeSC is a RACIST" fight.

 

Oh, yeah. Finance law only applies to BIG Corporations and the NRA. "Progressives" like Moyers and his kin can do whatever they want...

[Guest MikeSC]

I could ask why this guy was ever used as an investigator for the Niger weapons claim and question whether his being named as an investigator IS the bigger story --- but I won't.

                     -=Mike

Wha-?

 

Oh, Niger.

 

For a second I thought this thread was going to turn into yet another "MikeSC is a RACIST" fight.

 

Oh, yeah. Finance law only applies to BIG Corporations and the NRA. "Progressives" like Moyers and his kin can do whatever they want...

You...you...assume-I'm-a-racist-ist! Man, THAT is a group waiting to happen --- the NAAPATBR (The Nat'l Association for Advancement of People Assumed To Be Racists). Care to join me, kkk?

 

Apparently, as per usual, the left can't POSSIBLY be corrupted --- but the right is LOOKING to be bought.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Care to join me, kkk?

I don't think I have much of a choice.

 

But I think an organization name like the "kkk-lique" would be better...

[Vern Gagne 0]

I want in. I'll be the jingoist member of the group.

[Guest Cerebus]

At least they've stopped accepting money overseas...interesting that this isn't splashed all over OMG COMMIE NEWZ NETWORK and AP reports.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I want in. I'll be the jingoist member of the group.

OK -- now go put ammo in the tanks...

[Guest SideFXs]

Oh, yeah. Finance law only applies to BIG Corporations and the NRA. "Progressives" like Moyers and his kin can do whatever they want...

 

As long as the cause is served, this justifies the lie.

 

BTW I really laughed at the absurdity proving the point, of the last "South Park-Rob Reiner," episode.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I don't understand where you guys somehow came to a conclusion that liberals believe this is better than the NRA looking to buy a TV station.

 

It's all stupid. Every bit of it.

 

Congratulations McCain-Feingold. You've plugged the crack in the dam with your finger and now the water is gushing out your ears.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I want in. I'll be the jingoist member of the group.

OK -- now go put ammo in the tanks...

Howard Dean is a doctor.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Saw a campaign letter today from the GOP complaining about this. LOL. Citing that Clark and Dean's sites have pages for foreigners that link to "liberal causes."

 

Some of the hysterical phrases like "these liberals and their anti-war allies." SHOCK! If you don't like war, you aren't American! Then it went on about them encouraging money from overseas. Well that makes the shit hit the fan. After all, these people might not look like us or speak our language.

 

It also said Soros is spending $400 million, even though he's spent $15mil. Bush is hoping to raise $200 million for a primary where he has no opponents.

 

And all this because Clark's campaign got some money from Canadians or something. If I gave some money to a Canadian political group, do you think it would be a blow to their democracy? If not, do you think it would be to ours if it went the other way around?

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

Jobber: Could I get a source? Cause if this is true, I need a good laugh. Damn hypocrites.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I can't sit and post the letter because I don't have it, but among saying that Democrats will "say anything" to defeat the President, claims they're using conspiracy theories, etc. It also quoted Clark and said "Wesley Clark, who was off in Europe when Saddam was captured" as though he was vacationing out there or something (he was testifying against Milosivec.)

 

Regarding Soros, the latest article I can find from him from Google about how much he's spent is here, which says he's spent a tad over $15 million.

[Guest MikeSC]

Saw a campaign letter today from the GOP complaining about this. LOL. Citing that Clark and Dean's sites have pages for foreigners that link to "liberal causes."

 

Some of the hysterical phrases like "these liberals and their anti-war allies." SHOCK! If you don't like war, you aren't American! Then it went on about them encouraging money from overseas. Well that makes the shit hit the fan. After all, these people might not look like us or speak our language.

 

It also said Soros is spending $400 million, even though he's spent $15mil. Bush is hoping to raise $200 million for a primary where he has no opponents.

 

And all this because Clark's campaign got some money from Canadians or something. If I gave some money to a Canadian political group, do you think it would be a blow to their democracy? If not, do you think it would be to ours if it went the other way around?

I guess breaking campaign-finance law doesn't matter if you're a Democrat.

 

Lord knows it never slowed them down before.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I guess breaking campaign-finance law doesn't matter if you're a Democrat.

 

Lord knows it never slowed them down before.

-=Mike

On that same line, honor is a trait directly associated with conservatism, and no Republican has ever broken campaign-finance law. Ever.

[Guest MikeSC]

I guess breaking campaign-finance law doesn't matter if you're a Democrat.

 

Lord knows it never slowed them down before.

        -=Mike

On that same line, honor is a trait directly associated with conservatism, and no Republican has ever broken campaign-finance law. Ever.

How many GOP candidates had massive illegal contributions, ala Clinton in

1996?

 

You know, if there were major violations --- I doubt the press would fail to report it.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

How many GOP candidates had massive illegal contributions, ala Clinton in

1996?

 

You know, if there were major violations --- I doubt the press would fail to report it.

-=Mike

Oh, I know Clinton and Gray Davis are king of the contribution, but they've also been some of the oiliest snakes we've had in a long time in that field.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Guess which campaign letter is making the news?

 

Clark, Bush Campaigns in Spat Over Europe Trip

Fri December 19, 2003 06:07 PM ET

 

By Randall Mikkelsen

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark's spokesman on Friday criticized as "bizarre" a fund-raising pitch for President Bush that seemed to question a visit by Clark to Europe, where he testified against ex-Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic.

 

The e-mail letter, sent by Bush reelection campaign manager Ken Mehlman and dated on Thursday, accuses Democratic presidential candidates of "raising foreign cash to attack our president."

 

It goes on to say, "Wesley Clark, who was in Europe when Saddam Hussein was captured, criticized the president this week and said that rather than going after Saddam, he would have let the United Nations continue to seek the dictator's cooperation."

 

Bennett said the Clark campaign considered the reference to Clark being in Europe as a sideswipe against Bush's potential opponent. "We don't know why the Bush allies would question Gen. Clark's participation in a trial against a murderous despot," Clark spokesman Matt Bennett told Reuters.

 

Clark, the former NATO commander, was in The Hague this week to testify in Milosevic's trial before a U.N. war crimes tribunal on charges including the massacre of 7,000 Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica.

 

Referring to the letter, Bennett said, "That's bizarre, given that the Bush administration actively encouraged Clark to participate in the prosecution of Slobodan Milosevic."

 

"The State Department worked closely with Gen. Clark and the prosecution in determining how and when the testimony would be provided," he said.

 

A Bush campaign official who insisted on anonymity said of the reference to Clark's European trip only that "It's a statement of fact. We were describing his location."

 

Bush has said he is staying out of the campaign fray until after a Democratic nominee is chosen -- with a brief lapse on Monday to slap back at a criticism by former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, a Democratic presidential candidate.

 

But his fund-raising letters have gone on the offensive against Democrats.

 

The new letter said, "Democrats will do or say anything to defeat our president, wild accusations, reckless conspiracy theories and now raising money from foreign anti-American activists."

"Web sites for Wesley Clark and Howard Dean direct visitors from outside the United States to liberal fund-raising Web sites, where foreign donors can pledge money to fund left-wing efforts to defeat President Bush," it said. Foreign donations directly to campaigns are prohibited.

 

Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel declined to comment, other than to say, "We certainly stand by our letter."

 

Bennett denied the charge as "absurd and pathetic."

 

He said that among the links on the Clark campaign's Internet site is one to a site called "Canadians for Wesley Clark," which says Canadians cannot donate to the campaign but encourages donations to an independent pro-Clark site.

 

A message on the Canadians for Clark site denies any illegal activities. "Wesley Clark and his campaign have absolutely nothing to do with this web site and ... Canada is not a communist nation," it says.

 

The Dean campaign also denied accepting or encouraging any foreign donations to any groups. "It's an absurd and offensive allegation by President Bush's campaign," said Dean spokesman Jay Carson. "These guys just play fast and loose with the facts, and it's another example of it."

 

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=4025147

[Guest MikeSC]

Guess which campaign letter is making the news?

 

Clark, Bush Campaigns in Spat Over Europe Trip

Fri December 19, 2003 06:07 PM ET

 

By Randall Mikkelsen

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark's spokesman on Friday criticized as "bizarre" a fund-raising pitch for President Bush that seemed to question a visit by Clark to Europe, where he testified against ex-Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic.

 

The e-mail letter, sent by Bush reelection campaign manager Ken Mehlman and dated on Thursday, accuses Democratic presidential candidates of "raising foreign cash to attack our president."

 

It goes on to say, "Wesley Clark, who was in Europe when Saddam Hussein was captured, criticized the president this week and said that rather than going after Saddam, he would have let the United Nations continue to seek the dictator's cooperation."

 

Bennett said the Clark campaign considered the reference to Clark being in Europe as a sideswipe against Bush's potential opponent. "We don't know why the Bush allies would question Gen. Clark's participation in a trial against a murderous despot," Clark spokesman Matt Bennett told Reuters.

 

Clark, the former NATO commander, was in The Hague this week to testify in Milosevic's trial before a U.N. war crimes tribunal on charges including the massacre of 7,000 Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica.

 

Referring to the letter, Bennett said, "That's bizarre, given that the Bush administration actively encouraged Clark to participate in the prosecution of Slobodan Milosevic."

 

"The State Department worked closely with Gen. Clark and the prosecution in determining how and when the testimony would be provided," he said.

 

A Bush campaign official who insisted on anonymity said of the reference to Clark's European trip only that "It's a statement of fact. We were describing his location."

 

Bush has said he is staying out of the campaign fray until after a Democratic nominee is chosen -- with a brief lapse on Monday to slap back at a criticism by former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, a Democratic presidential candidate.

 

But his fund-raising letters have gone on the offensive against Democrats.

 

The new letter said, "Democrats will do or say anything to defeat our president, wild accusations, reckless conspiracy theories and now raising money from foreign anti-American activists."

"Web sites for Wesley Clark and Howard Dean direct visitors from outside the United States to liberal fund-raising Web sites, where foreign donors can pledge money to fund left-wing efforts to defeat President Bush," it said. Foreign donations directly to campaigns are prohibited.

 

Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel declined to comment, other than to say, "We certainly stand by our letter."

 

Bennett denied the charge as "absurd and pathetic."

 

He said that among the links on the Clark campaign's Internet site is one to a site called "Canadians for Wesley Clark," which says Canadians cannot donate to the campaign but encourages donations to an independent pro-Clark site.

 

A message on the Canadians for Clark site denies any illegal activities. "Wesley Clark and his campaign have absolutely nothing to do with this web site and ... Canada is not a communist nation," it says.

 

The Dean campaign also denied accepting or encouraging any foreign donations to any groups. "It's an absurd and offensive allegation by President Bush's campaign," said Dean spokesman Jay Carson. "These guys just play fast and loose with the facts, and it's another example of it."

 

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=4025147

OK, I suppose there's a story here --- but I have no clue what it might be. Clark DID have a problem with foreign donations (that whole Canadians for Clark site --- that Clark's official site links to --- encouraged Canadians to give money to groups like moveon.org to help Wes) and he was in Europe when Saddam was captured.

 

If Wes wishes to make idiotic assumptions, he can feel free. It wouldn't be the first time he did something idiotic.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

that whole Canadians for Clark site --- that Clark's official site links to --- encouraged Canadians to give money to groups like moveon.org to help Wes

Is that illegal?

 

I mean, it's certainly bending the rules, but it sounds like how the music industry was banned from payola cashouts to stations for airtime decades ago but now pay what are called "indies", who do the pay-for-play bargaining for them. Not the most moral action, but not against the law.

[Guest MikeSC]

that whole Canadians for Clark site --- that Clark's official site links to --- encouraged Canadians to give money to groups like moveon.org to help Wes

Is that illegal?

 

I mean, it's certainly bending the rules, but it sounds like how the music industry was banned from payola cashouts to stations for airtime decades ago but now pay what are called "indies", who do the pay-for-play bargaining for them. Not the most moral action, but not against the law.

Encouraging foreign nationals to give money to interfere in American politics is very much against the current campaign finance laws.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Does it really have a blanket statement like that? Everything I've read says they can't give money to actual candidates.

[Guest MikeSC]

Does it really have a blanket statement like that? Everything I've read says they can't give money to actual candidates.

From what I understand, non-Americans are not allowed to participate in the political process whatsoever. No money, no nothing.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

From what I understand, non-Americans are not allowed to participate in the political process whatsoever. No money, no nothing.

-=Mike

That seems like a lot of loopholes to sit and plug. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it. I do believe there's exceptions for permanent resident aliens and American citizens living in other countries, at the least.