Rumble and Mania plans

[NYU 0]

Anything is better than Benoit being buried by HHH.  And to think HHH will lose at WM 20, the biggest showcase of them all?  Ha.

Why are you assuming HHH will beat, let alone bury Benoit? Sure you can use the defense of Booker/HHH at Mania 19 this year, but I really don't think they'd do that again.

WWE-Built Superstar vs. WCW-Built Superstar at the biggest WWE show EVER.

 

You just need to use history to know how the result of that would go.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Let's see...

 

Benoit jobbing to HHH at mania or Benoit winning the fake world title in a screwy way (I laugh at anyone who thinks he would win even semi-clean).

 

NO THANK YOU.

Alright, how about Benoit vs. Rhyno on Heat? That sound good to you?

It's a lot better

[iliketurtles 0]

If enjoying the products means lowering your standards to a, quite frankly, pathetic place such as "As long as he get's the title" and not considering the circumstances inwhich he holds it, the mods should be in here; supressing the opinions of those who stand for such things.

 

You're thirsty, they piss in your mouth and you're saying "well, as long as it's wet". Get some respectible standards, man.

So why should you have your standards kept high every single time when you KNOW you are gunna get let down?

 

Too many times to count for myself. And don't think they couldn't think of a decent storyline for HHH/Benoit...they've got 2 months.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Benoit mad ehim tap twice when it didn't matter, but he couldn't get the job done when it did. Lesnar was the better man that night, as he rose to the occaision and got the job done. The only saving grace for Benoit was that he didn't tap, but that's (at best) a phyrric victory. Benoit (and Heyman said it himself) just got really close.

 

No, Lesnar did not "beat" Benoit - Lesnar said he'd make Benoit tap, he did not. Lesnar said he would never tap, he did. Lesnar couldn't pin Benoit with his F-5 and had to use a chair to put Benoit down. Lesnar got the "win", but he did not "beat" Benoit... thought this was already established???

 

Besides he needed help from instant fucking replay AND the Big Show to get by John Cena who had his number that night twice.

 

Yeah, and Cena has been booked better since that Smackdown as well... fucking WWE.

[Guest Retro Rob]

*mumbles something under breath*

 

*something about various posters being complacent dumbfucks.*

Mumble all you want. Bottom line, Chris Benoit someone who has been handed shit since he entered WWE/F is going to possibly be in the main event of the biggest extravaganza of all time and you reply by bitching about which title he is fighting for. Put yourself in Benoit (or any other wrestler's shoes), odds are they would kill to be in such a high profile match on that card. Complain and bitch all you want. All I know is that if Benoit does defeat HHH live in front of me at MSG, I will fucking enjoy it.

[iliketurtles 0]

Anything is better than Benoit being buried by HHH.  And to think HHH will lose at WM 20, the biggest showcase of them all?  Ha.

Why are you assuming HHH will beat, let alone bury Benoit? Sure you can use the defense of Booker/HHH at Mania 19 this year, but I really don't think they'd do that again.

WWE-Built Superstar vs. WCW-Built Superstar at the biggest WWE show EVER.

 

You just need to use history to know how the result of that would go.

So the same would go for Brock vs. Benoit, accordinging to your theory, correct?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I think the fact that many people on THIS board are willing to settle for Benoit/HHH proves that Benoit just doesn't inspire teh same kind of reaction as your ideal ME babyface. I mean, if WE'RE divided on the subject, what is the casual fan going to care which title Benoit wins?

[NYU 0]

Anything is better than Benoit being buried by HHH.  And to think HHH will lose at WM 20, the biggest showcase of them all?  Ha.

Why are you assuming HHH will beat, let alone bury Benoit? Sure you can use the defense of Booker/HHH at Mania 19 this year, but I really don't think they'd do that again.

WWE-Built Superstar vs. WCW-Built Superstar at the biggest WWE show EVER.

 

You just need to use history to know how the result of that would go.

So the same would go for Brock vs. Benoit, accordinging to your theory, correct?

Yes. Even then, I don't think they would let Benoit win. I'll believe it when I see it. But the Booker T/HHH match from WM XIX.....and the HBK/Jericho match from WM XIX.....and the HHH/Jericho match from WM XVIII......and the Hogan/Rock match from WM XVIII (I know Hogan's old, but still....)......and the Hall/Austin match from WM XVIII......history just seems to dictate that the WCW guy will always lose to the WWE guy at WrestleMania. Sad but true.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him.

 

Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it.

 

Why are you assuming HHH will beat, let alone bury Benoit? Sure you can use the defense of Booker/HHH at Mania 19 this year, but I really don't think they'd do that again.

 

Well lets look at HHH's WM record.

 

12 - Lost (because of punishment)

13 - Won

14 - Won

15 - Lost (it was a DQ)

16 - Won

17 - Lost (didn't have enough seniority)

18 - Won

19 - Won

20 - Gee, I wonder?

 

And let's not forget HHH is a glory hog.

[iliketurtles 0]

Anything is better than Benoit being buried by HHH.  And to think HHH will lose at WM 20, the biggest showcase of them all?  Ha.

Why are you assuming HHH will beat, let alone bury Benoit? Sure you can use the defense of Booker/HHH at Mania 19 this year, but I really don't think they'd do that again.

WWE-Built Superstar vs. WCW-Built Superstar at the biggest WWE show EVER.

 

You just need to use history to know how the result of that would go.

So the same would go for Brock vs. Benoit, accordinging to your theory, correct?

Yes. Even then, I don't think they would let Benoit win. I'll believe it when I see it. But the Booker T/HHH match from WM XIX.....and the HBK/Jericho match from WM XIX.....and the HHH/Jericho match from WM XVIII......and the Hogan/Rock match from WM XVIII (I know Hogan's old, but still....)......and the Hall/Austin match from WM XVIII......history just seems to dictate that the WCW guy will always lose to the WWE guy at WrestleMania. Sad but true.

So why does everyone want to see Brock/Benoit again if Benoit's just going to lose? Does it really matter if he wrestles Brock or HHH if he's going to lose in the end (according to the WCW vs. WWF theory)?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Benoit mad ehim tap twice when it didn't matter, but he couldn't get the job done when it did. Lesnar was the better man that night, as he rose to the occaision and got the job done. The only saving grace for Benoit was that he didn't tap, but that's (at best) a phyrric victory. Benoit (and Heyman said it himself) just got really close.

 

No, Lesnar did not "beat" Benoit - Lesnar said he'd make Benoit tap, he did not. Lesnar said he would never tap, he did. Lesnar couldn't pin Benoit with his F-5 and had to use a chair to put Benoit down. Lesnar got the "win", but he did not "beat" Benoit... thought this was already established???

 

Besides he needed help from instant fucking replay AND the Big Show to get by John Cena who had his number that night twice.

 

Yeah, and Cena has been booked better since that Smackdown as well... fucking WWE.

Doesn't matter, Rudo. In Brock's mind he's satisfied with what happened (See: Opening Promo- Sand Diego SmackDown). The ENTIRE SHOW was built around Benoit's dream to WIN THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP... and he could not beat Lesnar. Lesnar doesn't care anymore, Benoit's "not in his league" remember? From Brock's POV, there's no reason to give Benoit a rematch, no desire for one, Brock has nothing to prove.

[NYU 0]

Anything is better than Benoit being buried by HHH.  And to think HHH will lose at WM 20, the biggest showcase of them all?  Ha.

Why are you assuming HHH will beat, let alone bury Benoit? Sure you can use the defense of Booker/HHH at Mania 19 this year, but I really don't think they'd do that again.

WWE-Built Superstar vs. WCW-Built Superstar at the biggest WWE show EVER.

 

You just need to use history to know how the result of that would go.

So the same would go for Brock vs. Benoit, accordinging to your theory, correct?

Yes. Even then, I don't think they would let Benoit win. I'll believe it when I see it. But the Booker T/HHH match from WM XIX.....and the HBK/Jericho match from WM XIX.....and the HHH/Jericho match from WM XVIII......and the Hogan/Rock match from WM XVIII (I know Hogan's old, but still....)......and the Hall/Austin match from WM XVIII......history just seems to dictate that the WCW guy will always lose to the WWE guy at WrestleMania. Sad but true.

So why does everyone want to see Brock/Benoit again if Benoit's just going to lose? Does it really matter if he wrestles Brock or HHH if he's going to lose in the end (according to the WCW vs. WWF theory)?

Nope. But hope can make people delirious sometimes. How many times have I been psyched for a possible RVD title win?

Edited January 3, 2004 by OlympicHeroRVD

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

So why should you have your standards kept high every single time when you KNOW you are gunna get let down?

 

1)I expect them to fuck up - all the time -, so "being let down" is not a problem.

 

2)I don't look at it like "it could be worse" - I'm not like you. I don't look at "Well, he could be fighting Rhyno on Heat" - because, quite frankly, that's giving the WWE too much credit. You're letting them get away with giving you a substandard product, and justifying it with the worst possible product. I look at it like "Well, he could have been fighting Brock at Royal Rumble" - which would have been such a good feud. Those are pretty reasonable standards, if you ask me, since they already positioned themselves that way and they had history RIGHT THERE for them to use.

 

Too many times to count for myself. And don't think they couldn't think of a decent storyline for HHH/Benoit...they've got 2 months.

 

Again "decent"? What would a "decent" storyline entail? Does Benoit deserve "decent"? Especially when there's a "good" storyline on Smackdown already established.

[Guest Anglesault]

So it's your basic "You're not in my league" HHH feuds.. yeah, THOSE go so well.

I'd enjoy it more than the wet dream rehash of last year's storyline.

Which is so different from you having you do a "You're not in my league" feud. Not like HHH did that last year.

 

 

Oh, wait.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him.

 

Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it.

 

Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

So it's your basic "You're not in my league" HHH feuds.. yeah, THOSE go so well.

I'd enjoy it more than the wet dream rehash of last year's storyline.

Which is so different from you having you do a "You're not in my league" feud. Not like HHH did that last year.

 

 

Oh, wait.

Actually Benoit snapping and becoming the "silent, but deadly" badass does differntiate it from HHH/Booker.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED.

 

And he's been choking since Fully Loaded, right?

[iliketurtles 0]

So why should you have your standards kept high every single time when you KNOW you are gunna get let down?

 

1)I expect them to fuck up - all the time -, so "being let down" is not a problem.  I don't look at it like "it could be worse" - I'm not like you.  I don't look at "Well, he could be fighting Rhyno on Heat" - because, quite frankly, that's giving the WWE too much credit.  You're letting them get away with giving you a substandard product, and justifying it with the worst possible product.  I look at it like "Well, he could have been fighting Brock at Royal Rumble" - which would have been such a good feud.  Those are pretty reasonable standards, if you ask me, since they already positioned themselves that way and they had history RIGHT THERE for them to use.

 

Too many times to count for myself. And don't think they couldn't think of a decent storyline for HHH/Benoit...they've got 2 months.

 

Again "decent"?  What would a "decent" storyline entail?  Does Benoit deserve "decent"?  Especially when there's a "good" storyline on Smackdown already established.

And I'm not disagreeing with you at all. The storyline is there and it makes sense for Benoit/Brock to happen. I think everyone wants that match to happen, but it's just that with Benoit's track record in the WWF/E...I would take a "substandard" match vs. HHH in the quasi-main event if that's what the WWE gave to us. If you don't use the attitude of "it could be worse" then you'll always be bitching about something.

 

Edit: Do you really think Chris Benoit (the human being) give a living fuck about what his storyline is going into Mania as a big time match up and/or the main event? Hell no. Just being in that position is what he most likely gives a damn about. Just having a decent to good storyline would be just a bonus for him.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Benoit mad ehim tap twice when it didn't matter, but he couldn't get the job done when it did. Lesnar was the better man that night, as he rose to the occaision and got the job done. The only saving grace for Benoit was that he didn't tap, but that's (at best) a phyrric victory. Benoit (and Heyman said it himself) just got really close.

 

No, Lesnar did not "beat" Benoit - Lesnar said he'd make Benoit tap, he did not.  Lesnar said he would never tap, he did.  Lesnar couldn't pin Benoit with his F-5 and had to use a chair to put Benoit down.  Lesnar got the "win", but he did not "beat" Benoit... thought this was already established???

 

Besides he needed help from instant fucking replay AND the Big Show to get by John Cena who had his number that night twice.

 

Yeah, and Cena has been booked better since that Smackdown as well... fucking WWE.

Doesn't matter, Rudo. In Brock's mind he's satisfied with what happened (See: Opening Promo- Sand Diego SmackDown). The ENTIRE SHOW was built around Benoit's dream to WIN THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP... and he could not beat Lesnar. Lesnar doesn't care anymore, Benoit's "not in his league" remember? From Brock's POV, there's no reason to give Benoit a rematch, no desire for one, Brock has nothing to prove.

Brock does have something to prove. He's all about making Benoit tap. This was clearly demonstrated at the end of the match and the next week on Smackdown when Brock was in the ring showing highlights of his title fight the week before. He's also furious at Benoit for making him tap. He wants to prove he can beat Benoit without tapping out. He also wants to prove he can beat Benoit by submission.

[Guest Anglesault]

Actually Benoit snapping and becoming the "silent, but deadly" badass does differntiate it from HHH/Booker.

 

Because Booker was loud when he snapped?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Benoit mad ehim tap twice when it didn't matter, but he couldn't get the job done when it did. Lesnar was the better man that night, as he rose to the occaision and got the job done. The only saving grace for Benoit was that he didn't tap, but that's (at best) a phyrric victory. Benoit (and Heyman said it himself) just got really close.

 

No, Lesnar did not "beat" Benoit - Lesnar said he'd make Benoit tap, he did not.  Lesnar said he would never tap, he did.  Lesnar couldn't pin Benoit with his F-5 and had to use a chair to put Benoit down.  Lesnar got the "win", but he did not "beat" Benoit... thought this was already established???

 

Besides he needed help from instant fucking replay AND the Big Show to get by John Cena who had his number that night twice.

 

Yeah, and Cena has been booked better since that Smackdown as well... fucking WWE.

Doesn't matter, Rudo. In Brock's mind he's satisfied with what happened (See: Opening Promo- Sand Diego SmackDown). The ENTIRE SHOW was built around Benoit's dream to WIN THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP... and he could not beat Lesnar. Lesnar doesn't care anymore, Benoit's "not in his league" remember? From Brock's POV, there's no reason to give Benoit a rematch, no desire for one, Brock has nothing to prove.

Brock does have something to prove. He's all about making Benoit tap. This was clearly demonstrated at the end of the match and the next week on Smackdown when Brock was in the ring showing highlights of his title fight the week before. He's also furious at Benoit for making him tap. He wants to prove he can beat Benoit without tapping out. He also wants to prove he can beat Benoit by submission.

I'm sorry, but the opening promo of the San Diego SD! pretty much undermines that argument. it seems like Brock's either :

 

A.) Demented, and clinging to the belief that slapping Benoit's hand to the mat is equivolent to making him "tap."

 

B.) Ducking Benoit, which would indicate that Brock cares for the title more than he does for making Benoit tap.

 

I mean, you could still build a decent angle from the other end (Benoit's desire to win) but that promo pretty much killed the whole "I MUST make Chris tap!" angle dead.

[Guest Anglesault]

I would take a "substandard" match vs. HHH in the quasi-main event if that's what the WWE gave to us. If you don't use the attitude of "it could be worse" then you'll always be bitching about something.

And that's why this company is in the shitter. Because people are willing to settle for much worse than it can be.

 

The WWE has no reason to EVER do anything well, because people like you (nothing personal) have told them that substandard is a-okay.

[Brett Favre 0]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him.

 

Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it.

 

Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED.

What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Actually Benoit snapping and becoming the "silent, but deadly" badass does differntiate it from HHH/Booker.

 

Because Booker was loud when he snapped?

Because Booker didn't make HHH afraid of him. I mean the angles start off the same, but the builds are different. You can alos build it around Benoit's relentless quest for the belt forcing him to hit faces (ie Austin) when he's going after his goal. That would be an interesting role reversal for Benoit to take on some heelish characteristics because of his hunger to be the best, but still make him the face in the match.

[iliketurtles 0]

I would take a "substandard" match vs. HHH in the quasi-main event if that's what the WWE gave to us. If you don't use the attitude of "it could be worse" then you'll always be bitching about something.

And that's why this company is in the shitter. Because people are willing to settle for much worse than it can be.

 

The WWE has no reason to EVER do anything well, because people like you (nothing personal) have told them that substandard is a-okay.

A scenario that is much worse would Benoit not even BEING on the card. I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good.

 

And Benoit vs. HHH isn't a "substandard" match in my opinion either. We haven't seen it in a good 3 years.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him.

 

Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it.

 

Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED.

What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out?

No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING.

[Brett Favre 0]

Actually Benoit snapping and becoming the "silent, but deadly" badass does differntiate it from HHH/Booker.

 

Because Booker was loud when he snapped?

Because Booker didn't make HHH afraid of him. I mean the angles start off the same, but the builds are different. You can alos build it around Benoit's relentless quest for the belt forcing him to hit faces (ie Austin) when he's going after his goal. That would be an interesting role reversal for Benoit to take on some heelish characteristics because of his hunger to be the best, but still make him the face in the match.

Yeah. Attack Stone Cold. That would definately get that big face pop.

[Guest Anglesault]

Actually Benoit snapping and becoming the "silent, but deadly" badass does differntiate it from HHH/Booker.

 

Because Booker was loud when he snapped?

Because Booker didn't make HHH afraid of him.

He seemed scared the week before he proved that black men aren't a good (aka Mania) when Flair had to repeatedly tell him he was the best.

 

Benoit's relentless quest for the belt forcing him to hit faces (ie Austin) when he's going after his goal

 

Booker's relentless quest for the belt forcing him to fight faces (ie Steiner) when he's going after his goal

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED.

 

And he's been choking since Fully Loaded, right?

Pretty much.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Mumble all you want. Bottom line, Chris Benoit someone who has been handed shit since he entered WWE/F is going to possibly be in the main event of the biggest extravaganza of all time and you reply by bitching about which title he is fighting for.

 

Because *the title* is the whole fucking point! Benoit wants to win the *WWE* title, not the WCW title. He has stated *NO* intentions for the WCW title, he wants the WWE title. Getting this? Against Kurt Angle last year, against Austin in 01, against Rock in 00 - that's the title Benoit wants. Benoit wants the WWE title. Said it 4 times, you should get it by now.

 

Put yourself in Benoit (or any other wrestler's shoes), odds are they would kill to be in such a high profile match on that card.

 

But how does that effect *me*? And how does that effect Benoits title run? Cause, if he wins it cheaply, his run will suck. He will be labelled as someone who couldn't carry the ball when it was given to him. But hey, "At least he got the title"!

 

Complain and bitch all you want. All I know is that if Benoit does defeat HHH live in front of me at MSG, I will fucking enjoy it.

 

Ignorance is bliss...

 

I think the fact that many people on THIS board are willing to settle for Benoit/HHH proves that Benoit just doesn't inspire teh same kind of reaction as your ideal ME babyface.

 

I don't follow. I haven't really heard many people say "I don't want Benoit to win the title" - infact, a large number of people on this board want Benoit to win the title... some of us just care a little bit more and want his title win to, you know, actually be GOOD.

 

I mean, if WE'RE divided on the subject, what is the casual fan going to care which title Benoit wins?

 

I dunno, I'm not a casual fan. I tend to base my reasoning on fact - fact is, that title that HHH has isn't the true WWE title - it isn't of the same lineage. It's not the title Benoit wants. I don't want Benoit winning the WCW belt. It doesn't "fit" in with his history. It's not the rightful end to his quest. It isn't "right".

 

Doesn't matter, Rudo. In Brock's mind he's satisfied with what happened (See: Opening Promo- Sand Diego SmackDown).

 

Brock is also delusional... see, "I did not tap out"

 

The ENTIRE SHOW was built around Benoit's dream to WIN THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP... and he could not beat Lesnar. Lesnar doesn't care anymore, Benoit's "not in his league" remember? From Brock's POV, there's no reason to give Benoit a rematch, no desire for one, Brock has nothing to prove.

 

So why is Heyman protecting him from Benoit???