Rumble and Mania plans

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't really plan on buying WM 20 right now.

 

Ok, that's not a huge surprise.

 

I won't buy WM just because "it's WM", they actually have to DO something for my money - I know, shocker. Benoit/HHH won't get my money.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

You're just making stuff up to bitch about HHH now. The man offered to lose for the *good of the company* so stop with the HHHate already.

 

Oh yes I can just imagine HHH so gladfully volunteering to job.

[Guest Anglesault]

I'd just like to add that Austin and Rock hit faces before, and still soemhow managed to stay over.

For Christ sakes, people boo the Rock when he fights heels.

 

I don't really plan on buying WM 20 right now.

 

Ditto.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

In my opinion, the Heavyweight/WWE title won't be credible until it's Undisputed again to have ONE champion.

 

I never saw the WCW title as worth anything after WCW died. It didn't mean anything when Rock won it, it didn't mean anything when Angle won it, it didn't mean anything when it was "unified" with the WWE title. It didn't mean anything when it was "broken" from the unified title... why should it?

[The Tino Standard 0]

Christ on crutches...

 

Let me see if I understand this... Rumor has it that Chris Benoit (probably the IWC's most beloved cult figure) is being booked to face HHH (probably the IWC's most hated villain) in a world championship match at Wrestlemania XX (the biggest show ever) at MSG (the 'World's Most Famous Arena')... And people on here are shitting all over the idea of Benoit winning? Fuck that.

 

You're mad because it's not the WWE Championship they'll be fighting for... You're mad because it's just some political scheme for HHH to get a win back later... You know what? You're just plain paranoid, delusional and sad.

 

Does the World Heavyweight Championship have the lineage and history of the WWE title? No, of course not. The title was created in Sept. 2002. Some of you (cough *Ravishing Rick Rudo* cough, cough) need to read that last sentence again. That title is NOT the WCW title. The WCW title was absorbed into the WWE title in Dec. 2001. The physical belt is the same, but it is a different championship. It is a very nice looking championship belt, so they decided to use it for their new championship instead of creating a new belt. Why don't people get this?

 

Also, I think this proves that no matter what happens, people will bitch. That's the problem with message boards like this. No matter what is ever done, SOMEBODY is going to be pissed off, and it wrecks the fun for everybody else.

 

Benoit winning the Royal Rumble, then beating HHH to win the World championship at WrestleMania at MSG. Excuse me for "settling for less than the best," but I think that scenario sounds pretty fucking good.

[iliketurtles 0]

In my opinion, the Heavyweight/WWE title won't be credible until it's Undisputed again to have ONE champion.

 

I never saw the WCW title as worth anything after WCW died. It didn't mean anything when Rock won it, it didn't mean anything when Angle won it, it didn't mean anything when it was "unified" with the WWE title. It didn't mean anything when it was "broken" from the unified title... why should it?

It would add more prestige by having one major title because the WWE treats it like both titles are 50/50 when the WCW title prestige died long ago.

[Guest Askewniverse]

You're just making stuff up to bitch about HHH now. The man offered to lose for the *good of the company* so stop with the HHHate already.

 

Oh yes I can just imagine HHH so gladfully volunteering to job.

I think you just proved his point again. Besides, that Warrior-HHH match happened before the MSG incident.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

No, Austin went through fucking hell and was in the Sharpshooter for a while before he passed out due to bleeding like a MAN. Benoit took a chairshot and was in the move for like two seconds before he gave a little yelp and went limp like Anakin's mom in Episode II.

 

Austin went down like a champ, Benoit went down like a bitch.

So what exactly would have bridged the gap between champ and bitch? Some blood?

 

Yeah, Austin did go through hell, but Benoit wasn't in any picnic that night either, that being his second match of the night. If you didn't intend to make it sound like that, I'm surprised, but I apologize in advance. In addition, I don't remember Austin making Bret tap (I'll refrain from using "like a bitch" even though it can be added) when the ref was down either.

 

But I don't use revisionist history in order to put heat on myself in a message board. I'm weird like that.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Let me see if I understand this... Rumor has it that Chris Benoit (probably the IWC's most beloved cult figure) is being booked to face HHH (probably the IWC's most hated villain) in a world championship match at Wrestlemania XX (the biggest show ever) at MSG (the 'World's Most Famous Arena')... And people on here are shitting all over the idea of Benoit winning? Fuck that.

 

You're mad because it's not the WWE Championship they'll be fighting for... You're mad because it's just some political scheme for HHH to get a win back later... You know what? You're just plain paranoid, delusional and sad.

 

And you know what? You're right.

 

I think you just proved his point again. Besides, that Warrior-HHH match happened before the MSG incident.

 

HHH: What's that, Vince? You want to me put over this new guy you signed named the Ultimate Warrior? Sure, I'll give him the proper rub he needs even though it is my first WM. Its a great idea. Boy, do I love working for this company or what?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And people on here are shitting all over the idea of Benoit winning? Fuck that.

 

Actually, I don't like the idea of HHH/Benoit at all. Anything that falls under the "HHH/Benoit" banner, is bad. Even "the idea Benoit winning".

 

You're mad because it's not the WWE Championship they'll be fighting for... You're mad because it's just some political scheme for HHH to get a win back later... You know what? You're just plain paranoid, delusional and sad.

 

You forgot "right"

 

Why don't people get this?

 

Because when I look at the title I think "WCW". When JR goes on about Flair being a 16 time champion and referring to that belt as a possible 17 time, or whatever, I kinda get the feeling they're connecting the two. Just a feelin...

 

Also, I think this proves that no matter what happens, people will bitch.

 

I wouldn't have bitched with Brock vs. Benoit... you know, provided they didn't give me anything to bitch about... you're acting like this is our fault - we're just reacting...

 

No matter what is ever done, SOMEBODY is going to be pissed off, and it wrecks the fun for everybody else.

 

Well, people a different. They have different responses to different things. That's just the way of the world. We discuss some of those things here - it's kinda expected, this being a discussion board and all.

 

Benoit winning the Royal Rumble, then beating HHH to win the World championship at WrestleMania at MSG. Excuse me for "settling for less than the best," but I think that scenario sounds pretty fucking good

 

Do you actually "think"? Are you actually "thinking" about this? I can't imagine that sounding "pretty fucking good" if you actually "think" about it.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Christ on crutches...

 

Let me see if I understand this... Rumor has it that Chris Benoit (probably the IWC's most beloved cult figure) is being booked to face HHH (probably the IWC's most hated villain) in a world championship match at Wrestlemania XX (the biggest show ever) at MSG (the 'World's Most Famous Arena')... And people on here are shitting all over the idea of Benoit winning? Fuck that.

 

You're mad because it's not the WWE Championship they'll be fighting for... You're mad because it's just some political scheme for HHH to get a win back later... You know what? You're just plain paranoid, delusional and sad.

 

Does the World Heavyweight Championship have the lineage and history of the WWE title? No, of course not. The title was created in Sept. 2002. Some of you (cough *Ravishing Rick Rudo* cough, cough) need to read that last sentence again. That title is NOT the WCW title. The WCW title was absorbed into the WWE title in Dec. 2001. The physical belt is the same, but it is a different championship. It is a very nice looking championship belt, so they decided to use it for their new championship instead of creating a new belt. Why don't people get this?

 

Also, I think this proves that no matter what happens, people will bitch. That's the problem with message boards like this. No matter what is ever done, SOMEBODY is going to be pissed off, and it wrecks the fun for everybody else.

 

Benoit winning the Royal Rumble, then beating HHH to win the World championship at WrestleMania at MSG. Excuse me for "settling for less than the best," but I think that scenario sounds pretty fucking good.

I don't understand this logic at all. This scenario is enough to make me want to vomit to the end of eternity. Benoit's first reign has to be done right. If it's going to be against HHH (I suspect Cena's got a good shot at getting in here) it's just not worth it. It's wrong on so many levels. Why settle for less and for the truth to be told the complete burying of Benoit when Benoit could actually do something good on the Smackdown side for either Wrestlemania or Summerslam? Benoit vs HHH only comes out bad for Benoit while ever so coincidently everything comes out good for HHH.

[KTID 0]

12 - Lost (because of punishment)

 

You're just making stuff up to bitch about HHH now. The man offered to lose for the *good of the company* so stop with the HHHate already.

 

Oh yes I can just imagine HHH so gladfully volunteering to job.

 

 

You said he was forced to lose as a punishment. A punishment? For what? The infamous "curtain call" which occured over *two months later*?

 

What actually happened was as follows...

 

With so many big names jumping to WCW, Vince hired the Ultimate Warrior, one of the biggest stars of the past decade, to return at WMXII. This was a *big* selling point of that show, and of the entire company at that point (I should also point out that, despite calling him one of the biggest stars ever, I realise he was the shits in the ring and am looking at this from the point of casual fans). Anywho...many casual fans bought WMXII *just to see the Warrior*. The match was planned against Hunter Hearst Helmsley (now the feindish Triple H), and was to go around 10-15 minutes with Warrior going over. Shortly before the show, however, Warrior said he wanted the match to last under a minute and be a complete squash. McMahon balked at the idea, what with Helmsley being seen as a future star in the begging stages of a push (a push which at that time was supposed to include winning KOTR in June). Warrior then threatened to walk out on the company and no-show the PPV. Helmsley *personally offered Vince McMahon to allow himself to be squashed*. If he hadn't offered to do so, he wouldn't have been "forced" to as a "punishment" as you put it. And, considering the potential backlash against the company if Warrior had no-showed, he most certainly did it for the good of the company.

 

Hope this history lesson clears that up.

Edited January 3, 2004 by RVDMARK4:20

[The Tino Standard 0]

So, you have a scenario in your mind that you want to see, while I happen to find the scenario that is rumored to take place to be not all bad, but I'm wrong for thinking that way? Am I not allow to have an idea of what I'd like to see too?

 

It's not my "ultimate dream scenario," but then again, I don't have one because I'm not staying up nights losing sleep over this. But keep this in mind, no matter what YOUR dream scenario is, there's going to be somebody else out there with a different idea of what is best.

 

Quite frankly, I think people posting on here complaining about this are shooting themselves in the foot. I mean, if I'm Vince McMahon and I'm aware of the consensus opinions online about Benoit and HHH, then hear that people online are complaining about the possibility of Benoit beating HHH in the biggest show in WWE history for the World championship, my first reaction is "Fuck 'em."

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

So, you have a scenario in your mind that you want to see, while I happen to find the scenario that is rumored to take place to be not all bad, but I'm wrong for thinking that way? Am I not allow to have an idea of what I'd like to see too?

 

You also "think" that we being "paranoid" has no foundation to it - as if HHH has never done anything of the sort in the past... You're "thinking" at this point in time, has me wondering how much "thought" you've actually put into this. I'm thinking not that much. I never said you can't think that, I just said I can't imagine anyone thinking that - given the circumstance(s). Can't I think that? Am I not allowed to think that? To think like that?

 

It's not my "ultimate dream scenario," but then again, I don't have one because I'm not staying up nights losing sleep over this.

 

Neither am I, infact, I don't think it will even happen. I just like discussing it.

 

But keep this in mind, no matter what YOUR dream scenario is, there's going to be somebody else out there with a different idea of what is best.

 

Yeah, but mines so much better.

 

Quite frankly, I think people posting on here complaining about this are shooting themselves in the foot. I mean, if I'm Vince McMahon and I'm aware of the consensus opinions online about Benoit and HHH, then hear that people online are complaining about the possibility of Benoit beating HHH in the biggest show in WWE history for the World championship, my first reaction is "Fuck 'em."

 

You're saying "Fuck em" about a loyal fanbase who puts enough time and thought into your product to debate the merits of a feud that probably won't even happen for 6 pages? I dunno, that's some sort of commitment they have - might be worth keepin...

[Lil' Bitch 0]

If it wasn't punishment, the match wouldn't have been a damn squash!

[KTID 0]

If it wasn't punishment, the match wouldn't have been a damn squash!

 

You're making no sense. What was he being punished for? How does this "punishment" fit in with the fact that he was in the middle of receiving a major push? And most importantly, I already told you what happened. Did you not read what I said? Did you not understand what I said? Did you not believe what I said?

[Guest Askewniverse]

If it wasn't punishment, the match wouldn't have been a damn squash!

So, if Rico were to be squashed by Goldberg on Raw, would that mean Rico was being punished?

[KTID 0]

Exactly, he makes no sense.

[Guest Anglesault]

If it wasn't punishment, the match wouldn't have been a damn squash!

Huh?

 

What would he have been punished for?

[KTID 0]

That's what i'd like to know, 'Sault.

[The Tino Standard 0]

Rudo, what is your idea of "better"?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

This makes NO SENSE. At all. None. Let's look at this, kayfabe-wise:

 

1. It's a cross-brand match. Nowhere does it say that the winner will switch brands. So, if, say, Benoit wins the RAW title, does he go back to SD with it?

 

2. Why would either GM want to allow the winner of the RR to fight the OTHER brands champion? Considering that they're in competition with each other, why would either GM, when someone from their side wins, forfeit having a SD or RAW-only main event match on WM 20?

 

Dammit, there were other things that bugged me about it, but I forgot them. I still think this is a flat-out silly idea.

 

I agree. I think its all bullshit just to begin with.

[KTID 0]

You haven't answered my questions.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Well, my idea of "better" has long since passed and would have started after Summerslam. But after Summerslam it fell apart, so then "better" came around after Survivor Series.

 

Which one do you want?

[Gert T 0]

Everybody is worrying for nothing. I still got my money on HHH vs. The Rock at WM XX.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Would the Rock finally win the world title at a WM? I'd sure like that to see that.

[The Tino Standard 0]

Well, my idea of "better" has long since passed and would have started after Summerslam. But after Summerslam it fell apart, so then "better" came around after Survivor Series.

 

Which one do you want?

You missed the point of my question. I don't care about fantasy booking. It's a waste of time. I meant, what's "better" as in what qualities do you look for when defining what is good? Making money? Entertaining casual fans? Putting on good technical wrestling matches? Keeping the wrestlers on your roster happy? Pleasing Internet fans?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Making Money and Entertaining the fans are things one can manipuate, but not control, and have external factors effecting. So I do not look to those things as the definition of good - or at least, what I can make good.

 

Putting on "good" matches, is certainly key - as wrestling should be based around wrestling matches. Being "technical" is always nice to have, as it adds to the visual appeal of the match (ie: Benoit/Angle RR03); crisp, clean moves (see, "technique") are the marks of a well trained wrestler. I don't see how keeping the wrestlers on the roster happy is of any consequence in this regard.

 

What I define as being "good". A good story. One that has little-to-no plot holes. One that is believable. One that is based on a "truth" - in this regard, Benoit wanting the WWE title as opposed to the World Title. One that has some artistic value - that has meaning. Benoit's quest, for example. A story that is tangible, that I can explain. One that goes beyond a single layer - something that has depth to it. Smart writing, that uses history and that uses time and characters effectively. That the characters actually grow, learn, and develop. That this story is reflected in the match itself. That the match is "good". That there is a story in it, that the moves reflect that. That there is selling, a bit of variety, some innovation, a constant pace, build, drama, effective use of moves. That the finish is appropriate to both the story and the characters of the story. That there is resolution.

[iggymcfly 0]

I just have to say if Benoit/Brock actually was the main event of the "biggest PPV of all time," that would be pretty damn sad. What they're doing is for the second year in a row, making a very poor attempt to recreate their most successful storyline of all time. (Austin getting screwed out of the title in '98.) "Authority figure promises to never give title shot to face challenger, but is foiled when he wins the Royal Rumble" is just absolutely PLAYED.

[Guest Deebo]

How would Benoit/Brock as a main event be sad?