Nintendo's "mystery machine" uncovered

[BUTT 0]

http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/fullstory.asp?id=5624

 

A two-screen handheld? I don't quite get it.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

You beat me by seconds!

 

Anyway...it's weird.

 

It's not like...the most uninteresting thing I've ever heard of.

 

But with Sony going 3D with it's portable...this just seems like another Nintendo gimmick to make sure they keep from joining the next generation just like they do every cycle.

[MrRant 0]

Feel the excitement.

[razazteca 0]

what does the thing look like?

[BUTT 0]

They haven't released any screens yet, but this doesn't seem like a really good idea. It sounds like this is the sort of thing that would directly compete with the GBA. Plus, this thing was supposed to be "not quite hardware and not quite software". I'll admit, details are a little sketchy, but...sounds like hardware to me.

[Detective Comics 0]

I will be buying two of everything that comes out along with it, simply to keep one for myself, and sell the 2nd set on eBay in 20 years for some quick cash... see how much some Virtual Boy games go for!

[AndrewTS 0]

You beat me by seconds!

 

Anyway...it's weird.

 

It's not like...the most uninteresting thing I've ever heard of.

 

But with Sony going 3D with it's portable...this just seems like another Nintendo gimmick to make sure they keep from joining the next generation just like they do every cycle.

Ouch, sad but true.

 

See also:

 

Cartridges instead of CDs

 

64DD

 

Mini-DVD discs instead of standard DVDs and the option of playing DVDs on the GC

 

GBA-GC connectivity rather than online gaming

 

The phucked up controllers of the Gamecube and N64.

 

I think Miyamoto has been pulling weirder vegetables than usual out of his garden for the past 8 years or so.

[Anya 0]

Sounds dumb.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Cartridges instead of CDs

 

And CDs are more widely pirated because its cheaper to do than cartridges, which are also more durable and have the ability to save directly to the carts which at the time was before your nifty hard drives and large memory cards.

 

64DD

Who actually believed this would see the light of day in the US? And had they released the thing, people would be bashing Nintendo for pulling a SEGA and releasing a gimmick console add on just prior to releasing their newer console.

 

Mini-DVD discs instead of standard DVDs and the option of playing DVDs on the GC.

 

The smaller discs also load much faster, are less prone to scratching, and can hold enough data for any game thats needs it. Most X Box and PS2 game discs are either not filled completely or filled completely because they just don't bother with compression, which just allows the developers to be lazy. and also..

 

VIDEO GAME CONSOLES DO NOT NEED TO BE DVD PLAYERS! End of Story.

 

GBA-GC connectivity rather than online gaming

 

You really can't compare the two. Nintendo is taking advantage of its dominance in the hand held market to offer something extra to people who have a GC and a GBA.

 

The phucked up controllers of the Gamecube and N64.

 

Thats your opinion. I know a lot of people hate the controllers, and to an extent the N64 controllers were lame, but the Gamecube controller, especially the Wavebird are very good controllers.

 

As far as this 2 screen thing goes. Im not too big on the portable gaming. I had a GB for 8 years and I enjoyed it but I just don't have time to dedicate to playing portable games. The time I do have for playing games I would rather dedicate to playing Gamecube games on my tv. So I really don't know about this, although the idea is certainly innovative and not just another rehased Game Boy for a 3rd consecutive year.

 

Someone I know suggested that when not in the "split screen mode", the 2 screens could actually be put together to make 1 large screen for normal gaming but I don't know how that would work. Could it be possible that with both screens running independently, they could re-do the Virtual Boy so that the game being played would be psuedo-3D in color (instead of black and red). After all, the Virtual Boy had 2 screens as well.

 

also..ds is sp upside down..

 

*goes and drinks some dnL*

Edited January 21, 2004 by MarvinisaLunatic

[Anya 0]

And CDs are more widely pirated because its cheaper to do than cartridges, which are also more durable and have the ability to save directly to the carts which at the time was before your nifty hard drives and large memory cards.

Things like less pirating and not having to use memory cards are nice and all, but they really don't matter much when you consider the move ended up being a key factor in Nintendo losing a LOT of it's market share to Sony. I mean, what good is saving money because of less pirating when it ends up costing you most of your 3rd party support?

[dubq 0]

Meh.. what the fuck do I need two screens for?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

1. The Gamecube loads much faster...than the PS2...not the Xbox. They load about the same...which is a result of not having hardware as old as PS2's.

 

2. You can compare Online to Connectivity for as long as Nintendo continues to ignore one in favor of the other. Giving people who own both something extra is fine...but (even as an owner of both)...I'll take the extra ability to play people online in my games instead.

[Nevermortal 0]

Virtual Boy II!

[AndrewTS 0]

And CDs are more widely pirated because its cheaper to do than cartridges, which are also more durable and have the ability to save directly to the carts which at the time was before your nifty hard drives and large memory cards.

 

Cartridges: more expensive for companies to produce, third parties hate 'em, and if you save data it stays on that cartridge. With CDs you can rent, play, save, and if you want to buy that game you can continue. While not as big a concern, battery backups croak eventually.

 

However, the save issue ISN'T a reason that cartridges are better, any more than memory cards are better. It's just a preference that you have personally.

 

Your precious N64 used Memory Cards too, BTW (although they go with stupid names like "Controller Pak" and "Game Pak.")

 

I know cartridges load faster, are more durable, and all that wonderful stuff, but Nintendo going with carts for the N64 killed a ton of third party support. Of course, Acclaim still liked them.

 

Who actually believed this would see the light of day in the US? And had they released the thing, people would be bashing Nintendo for pulling a SEGA and releasing a gimmick console add on just prior to releasing their newer console.

 

No one is disagreeing, but it was money wasted into working on a project that turned out to be vaporware. Add-ons are only practical when they're affordable and you have a large userbase for the first console, strong third party support, and the cost and performance of the upgraded console all together is competitive.

 

Sega's Genesis had a large installed user base, but they charged $150 for an add on with next to no third party support, no marketing, and the two systems together would have run $250 for non-Genesis owners: which would be just a bit shy of what one of the real new consoles would cost, and the same as the then-uber-hyped n64. Then, figure in the cost to play 32X CD games...

 

No one is saying it wasn't a dumb idea, but it was a dumb idea to even invest time into doing.

 

The smaller discs also load much faster, are less prone to scratching, and can hold enough data for any game thats needs it. Most X Box and PS2 game discs are either not filled completely or filled completely because they just don't bother with compression, which just allows the developers to be lazy. and also..

 

Faster loading: bps covered.

 

Less prone to scratching--bullshit. It's the same as a regular DVD from what I've seen.

 

What does compression or not compression really matter, though?

 

VIDEO GAME CONSOLES DO NOT NEED TO BE DVD PLAYERS! End of Story.

 

Nope. However, you do realize on this very forum a report was posted stating the positive effect consoles that play DVDs have on the DVD market? They save space, save money, and work just as fine. Can't you simply accept that it was smart on MS and Sony's part to do that? Hell, there's a third party company that made a Gamecube that plays DVDs, so while they don't need to be, it's convenient for them to.

 

You really can't compare the two. Nintendo is taking advantage of its dominance in the hand held market to offer something extra to people who have a GC and a GBA.

 

Again, as bps said, you could do both, rather than doing that INSTEAD of online gaming, which is...you know...popular and a huge potential money maker? I have little interest in online gaming, but who wouldn't be up for Mario Kart online play?

 

Thats your opinion. I know a lot of people hate the controllers, and to an extent the N64 controllers were lame, but the Gamecube controller, especially the Wavebird are very good controllers.

 

The N64 controller was shaped all wrong, the c-buttons were too tiny, the whole thing (especially the Analog stick) felt too cheap, the thing didn't even get utilized in many games where it would have made sense.

 

The button layout for the Gamecube controller is nonsensical. Because its Miyamoto's baby and he's nostalgic for two button games, that's why you have one HUGE HONKIN' BUTTON, a smaller button underneath that, and the other buttons are scattered around that layup. What's wrong with a more orderly, traditional button layout? I've failed to get an answer on that question anytime this has come up.

Edited January 21, 2004 by AndrewTS

[Renegade 0]

I'm still waiting for new versions of the gba, like the gbaspXXlimited edition.

 

It can fold into seven pieces and you can fit it under your tongue, tastes like tropical fruit.

 

Make it happen Nintendo.

[Guest wildpegasus]

The Gamecube controllers are fine. The only problem with them is that the digital pad? (Is that what you call it?) is too small.

[Downhome 0]

The Gamecube controllers are fine. The only problem with them is that the digital pad? (Is that what you call it?) is too small.

The GC controller is my least favorite controller ever. My biggest problem with it are those freakin' shoulder buttons, and the Z button. They drive me crazy, especially the shoulder triggers, I hate them

[dubq 0]

About Warp Pipe

 

It's really sad that this had to be done this late, just to be able to use the Gamecube for online gaming. I was once a huge Nintendo fanboy too (the only consoles I've ever owned are from them), and I feel they've been losing their touch (or "miyamoto magic") in recent years.

True. I think that every Nintendo console has been equipped with expansion ports to enable stuff like this, yet with every single one of them Nintendo balked on actually producing the peripherals...

 

I'm not really surprised, though. I mean, look how long it took them to switch to CD based media.

[Golgo 13 0]

I'm one of the minority who loves the GC controller. Yes, I think the action button layout could've been much better, but once I got used to it, it was damn comfortable and it feels a lot sturdier than the N64 controller. My only real complaint is the size of the d-pad.

[fazzle 0]

The smaller discs also load much faster, are less prone to scratching, and can hold enough data for any game thats needs it.

What about the Resident Evils?

 

 

Hell, Tiger freakin Woods needs 2 discs on the Gamecube. I'm not exactly sure WHY it could need two, but it does.

[Guest I'm That Damn Zzzzz]

Finally, arcade perfect ports of Nintendo's Play Action 10 are now possible!!!

(Or whatever it's called.)

Edited January 21, 2004 by I'm That Damn Zzzzz

[AndrewTS 0]

The Gamecube controllers are fine. The only problem with them is that the digital pad? (Is that what you call it?) is too small.

I think the D-Pad's fine, actually, but the one on the GBA SP is crummy because it doesn't stick out far enough.

 

Isn't the D-pad for the GC the same design/size that they've been using forever? The N64, VB, SNES, and I think the SNES all had the same didn't they?

 

Doesn't compare to the the Sega pad IMO, but it does the job fine.

[dubq 0]

The Gamecube controllers are fine. The only problem with them is that the digital pad? (Is that what you call it?) is too small.

I think the D-Pad's fine, actually, but the one on the GBA SP is crummy because it doesn't stick out far enough.

 

Isn't the D-pad for the GC the same design/size that they've been using forever? The N64, VB, SNES, and I think the SNES all had the same didn't they?

 

Doesn't compare to the the Sega pad IMO, but it does the job fine.

Design, yes. Size, no. The Gamecube d-pad is quite a bit smaller than the ones for previous consoles.

Edited January 21, 2004 by vivisectvi

[Guest wildpegasus]

The Gamecube controllers are fine. The only problem with them is that the digital pad? (Is that what you call it?) is too small.

I think the D-Pad's fine, actually, but the one on the GBA SP is crummy because it doesn't stick out far enough.

 

Isn't the D-pad for the GC the same design/size that they've been using forever? The N64, VB, SNES, and I think the SNES all had the same didn't they?

 

Doesn't compare to the the Sega pad IMO, but it does the job fine.

Design, yes. Size, no. The Gamecube d-pad is quite a bit smaller than the ones for previous consoles.

probably made for Japanese hands. Still, wouldn't it be too small for them too?

[razazteca 0]

The GBA SP D-pad and buttons are too small for me.

[Guest DVD Spree]

No one is saying it wasn't a dumb idea, but it was a dumb idea to even invest time into doing.

People seem to forget that, for all intents and purposes, the 64DD was Nintendo's experimentation with online functionality. Sure, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy that, since no-one bought the unit, no-one would go online with it and thus Ninty could claim it wasn't viable to suport online functions, but it's not entirely fair to say Nintendo ignored online features - RandNET bit them in the ass hard, and they figured it was better to stay away from online gaming.

 

The GC controller is my least favorite controller ever. My biggest problem with it are those freakin' shoulder buttons, and the Z button. They drive me crazy, especially the shoulder triggers, I hate them

Well, I've always loved the GC shoulders, but I used to detest the Z button... until I bought NBA Street 2 and learned to use the Z button with my index finger and the right shoulder with my middle finger. Before I was trying to flip my index finger between R and Z whenever I needed it, but now I'm using it properly it feels totally intuitive and I love it.

[AndrewTS 0]

People seem to forget that, for all intents and purposes, the 64DD was Nintendo's experimentation with online functionality.

 

It never came out, and even if it did, it would have been at a time when the interest in online gaming among console players may not have been anywhere near the fever pitch it is now.

 

So--that's a perfectly valid excuse to leave it out of the GC plans? Uh-huh, sure.

 

Thing is, I don't even care about online gaming, but I don't get how Nintendo couldn't.

 

Back on topic--a humorous look at the situation from toastyfrog.com:

 

Newsline: Nintendo's upcoming DS system targets mutants, freaks

 

Yesterday Nintendo announced a new handheld console for the rest of us. What you may not have realized before their announcement is that "the rest of us" are diplocephalic freaks, conjoined twins who get annoyed because one head is always hogging the GameBoy screen and the other has to sit and watch some awful reality TV show as the first head plays Wario Ware. Well, no more! The new Nintendo DS has two screens, which means that both of your heads can watch the on-screen action simultaneously!

 

Anticipation within the diplocephalic mutant community seems favorable, though perhaps a note of guarded caution can be detected.

 

"Phreeeeeow! Bring on the M-rated games! If Fear Effect: Sapphic Adventure isn't a launch title, heads will roll. And they won't be mine! Now bring me a beer," said Zaphod Beeblebrox, former President of the Galaxy.

 

"Two beers," amended his other head, peevishly.

 

"Me like!" screamed the right head of Sesame Street's Two-Headed Monster. "Finally, me watch game and not stupid Jessica Simpson!"

 

"Me only hope it not fail all miserable," opined Two-Headed Monster's left head. "How Nintendo support three console at once? Maybe thinking they stretch market too thin, die like Sega." The two heads then degenerated into an inscrutible argument before simultaneously punching one another into unconsciousness.

 

Meanwhile, beyond the grave, Gunpei Yokoi was said to have sighed with relief. "At last, something to make my Virtual Boy look good in comparison," he is quoted as murmuring ethereally.

[Guest DVD Spree]

It never came out, and even if it did, it would have been at a time when the interest in online gaming among console players may not have been anywhere near the fever pitch it is now.

Um, YES IT DID. It was released in Japan, Nintendo's home and most important territory, on December 1 1999 - over a year after the DreamCast. Just because it didn't come out in North America doesn't suddenly mean it never existed.

 

While I'm not disagreeing that the machine did nothing to truly entice users to jump on the online bandwagon, since only one of the DD games was actually playable online (Pro-Golf Tour 64) and most of the online applications were browsing/creativity related (Polygon Studio, Talent Studio etc.), it's still unfair to say that Nintendo never bothered with online capability. YES, until the last couple of years, most people in Japan weren't even hooked up to the internet, YES the N64 had a tiny user base and was at the end of its life cycle, YES the fact that Zelda and Mother 3 never naterialised on the system limited its appeal and YES the experiment was doomed to failure from the start. Still the fact remains: Nintendo supported an online platform - however ill-fated it might have been - and it was a dismal failure. Now, consider that going into the GameCube era, Hiroshi Yamauchi was preparing to retire - this is arguably the only man within the Nintendo braintrust who ever dreamt of networking Nintendo nachines everywhere, and partially achieved that dream via the FamiCom (NES) disk drive system in 1986 and the 64DD. No-one else in the company's management wanted anything to do with networking or online capabilities of any kind, so it is arguable that the online dream largely ended when Yamauchi hung it up, a decision further supported by the failure of their first online endeavour.

 

Take it from Peer Schneider:

"With N64s gathering dust on shelves, few retailers were interested in carrying the 64DD, so Nintendo came up with a subscription plan that required gamers to order the whole package via credit card. Nintendo instantly created a controlled "sample" userbase, small enough to maintain at low cost, but larger than any in-house testing staff. Using Randnet, Nintendo was able to explore modem-based network gaming and take baby steps into an unfamiliar online universe... Nintendo ended up with valuable feedback from Randnet users and first-hand experience in running an information and entertainment network -- data that may eventually help design a better online experience for GameCube and Game Boy."

Nintendo paid attention to this "valuable feedback" - which is still accurate in the context of the Japanese territory - and concluded that online capabilities were not system-sellers. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not necessarily saying it's true, I'm just saying that's WHY, and I think it's important for people to appreciate the actual circumstances, rather than just blindly mouthing off that Nintendo never bothered with this or that.

[AndrewTS 0]

Um, YES IT DID. It was released in Japan, Nintendo's home and most important territory, on December 1 1999 - over a year after the DreamCast. Just because it didn't come out in North America doesn't suddenly mean it never existed.

 

That's news to me. I never knew that it ever came out anywhere. So in other words, it did come out, but it was a huge miscalculation and a tremendous failure.

 

My point still stands that it's another stupid thing Nintendo did.

 

Nintendo paid attention to this "valuable feedback" - which is still accurate in the context of the Japanese territory - and concluded that online capabilities were not system-sellers. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not necessarily saying it's true, I'm just saying that's WHY, and I think it's important for people to appreciate the actual circumstances, rather than just blindly mouthing off that Nintendo never bothered with this or that.

 

So in other words, Nintendo's experience with marketing research was next to nil before that?

 

Also, did Nintendo not pay attention to the "valuable feedback" that Sega's twice-over screw-ups should have provided them? Compared to the 64DD, the 32X sounds like pure genius. At least the Genesis had a wide installed user base already.

 

How much yen did the whole 64DD/N64 package cost, at the then approximate exchange rate of 97 yen to a dollar?

[Guest DVD Spree]

AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

 

I just typed a mammoth post and the bastard board fatal errored me.

 

That's news to me. I never knew that it ever came out anywhere. So in other words, it did come out, but it was a huge miscalculation and a tremendous failure.

 

My point still stands that it's another stupid thing Nintendo did.

Well, it was a tremendous failure, but I wouldn't exactly call it "another stupid thing".

 

Remember why Nintendo announced the add-on in the first place - to counter not only the dramatically increased storage capacity of CD media used by Sony, but also to counter Square's public and unceremonious dumping of Nintendo (its longstanding home) in favour of supporting Sony. Embarrassed by the loss of public face, Nintendo announced that the only medium that would deliver the scale and level of gameplay worthy of a Nintendo-based RPG would be a Dynamic Disk (DD) format.

 

In fact, for a time the 64DD looked to be quite the awesome piece of hardware: with titles including Mario 64 II, Mother 3 (Earthbound) and Zelda, the unit was to provide constantly changing and evolving game worlds (think Animal Crossing) not possible on a cartridge or CD-based format, as well as delivering expansion paks for titles to extend game life. With an increased, rewriteable medium, there would be increased storage space for more complex, dynamic game code, real-time graphics rendering (at the time still championed by Nintendo over pre-rendering) and Redbook sound. Ultimately though, development just took too long, and the 64DD ended up as little more than an interesting experiment. That said, the creativity applications were cool and debuted the GameBoy and GameBoy Camera connectivity that would feature fairly prominently on the GameCube, brought us the RAM pak that allowed games like Perfect Dark and Rogue Squadron to run properly, and the F-Zero X expansion pak was damn sexy. And if the damn dial-up options weren't hardwired, you could still use the thing to browse the web today.

 

So in other words, Nintendo's experience with marketing research was next to nil before that?

 

Also, did Nintendo not pay attention to the "valuable feedback" that Sega's twice-over screw-ups should have provided them? Compared to the 64DD, the 32X sounds like pure genius. At least the Genesis had a wide installed user base already.

Now now Andrew, you're deliberately misunderstanding. Besides, what good ever came of the 32X? We've already established that the 64DD at least gave way to the RAM pak and GameBoy connectivity, as well as featured Nintendo's first online game. You're also forgetting that Sega was under no pressure to release the 32X, and did so purely because they thought it would be a success. Nintendo were locked into a contract with RandNET that they had to honour, thus the 64DD HAD to be produced and released, no matter how unsucessful a venture it would be. Nintendo actually made the best of a bad situation.

 

In any case, exactly what DID Nintendo learn from Sega's screw-ups? Well, they learned that the DreamCast, an exceptional console lauded for its groundbreaking online capabilities, died an absolute death. So, faced with both the company's own first-hand experience with online and the fact that Sega had to pull out of console manufacturing entirely having fully supported an online infrastructure for its console, you still think it would be a good idea for Nintendo to jump into the next cycle with online this and that?

 

Besides, there's a bizarre misconception that online capabilities sell systems. While I don't doubt that people who HAVE machines with online functionality would enjoy the fact that they can go online if they want to, people do not BUY machines simply because they feature online functionality. In any case, console-based online gaming is almost exclusively an American pasttime, since broadband penetration in Japan, the Asian and most European territories is still almost invisible - in fact, most people in Japan haven't even been online for more than a couple of years.

 

Again, I AM NOT defending Nintendo's lack of online support, and I AM NOT saying the decision is correct or the best one for business. I am simply stating that there are genuine reasons why Nintendo is not supporting online, and outlining what they are, because most people are under the impression that Nintendo has given up on it before they even attempted it, and this is just patently untrue.

 

There are a million and one reasons why the GameCube has been the red-headed stepchild of this generation (misguided marketing, inappropriate console design, lack of third party support, lack of DVD player, choice of proprietry disc media etc. etc.), but its lack of online support is not a factor in its performance. Besides, North American gamers are generally a fairly self-centered bunch, evidenced by the lack of awareness that the 64DD was even released anywhere; the GameCube has generally lagged in third place in the North American territory, this is true (although recently it has routinely been in second place), but North America is NOT the centre of the universe and this does not reflect the global picture. In Japan and Europe the GameCube is easily the second most popular console, as it is in other smaller territories.

 

How much yen did the whole 64DD/N64 package cost, at the then approximate exchange rate of 97 yen to a dollar?

Oh man, I have NO idea.

 

I know that the device, like any new Japanese console, was ridiculously expensive to import (although not quite as ridiculous as the prices some importers are asking for the PSX). My buddy bought his for £600, although I've no idea what this would translate into the dollar of the time, and that figure would be meaningless and out-of-context anyway since import prices are so wildly different from domestic prices.