The OAO Hate/Defend Randy Orton Thread

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

So basically you're calling yourself a dumb fuck for thinking that cruiser matches are nothing but spotfests?

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

No. Its what certain people think of me.

[Downhome 0]

If you don't have the brains to notice the difference between a cruiser match and a spotfest, then you are a lot worse than a "dumb fuck".

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

Well, coming out with ignorant comments like "a lot of people don't see a difference between junior matches and spotfests" I'm not surprised you've received some slack. I'm not going to deny that there have been many shitty junior matches, but there have been junior matches that are ranked amongst some of the best matches ever. I'd certainly put a number of NJPW junior matches above anything worked on US soil.

[Damaramu 0]

 

-for the last god damn time. When we say we want new people pushed we mean good new people. People that can actually get above ** on a consistent basis. 

 

 

 

So Paul London/Kidman vs Bashams was a ***** Classic then ?

No.....I didn't say all the time. I just said consistent. If he was given 20 minutes against someone like Kidman then he'd reach the ***-**** barrier. If Orton was given 20 minutes against a good wrestler then he'd make about **1/2.....that was my point. London can have good matches when given the time...Orton can't. Then again Paul's a better pure athlete and has been wrestling longer.

 

-not really. Cena entertains me in the ring....Orton bores me. Plus Cena is overall more entertaining.

 

-Sooner rather than later he'll run out of legends and he won't be a newcome anymore either....so the gimmick does have a short lifespan.

 

 

 

 

Cena...entertaining???? Like when he pumps up his sneakers (sneakers, for chrissake) before he comes off the top?

 

Also, I don't buy the whole Legend Killer thing, Orton's an asshole, thats his gimmick, and it works.

 

Yes I find Cena very entertaining. Sorry if you don't but that's what I like. Don't try to change it.

 

No Orton's gimmick is the Legend Killer.

 

Paul London looks like a cruiserweight pro wrestler to me. Plus I actually want to see Paul London wrestle. 

 

 

 

Well, I hate cruiserweights to begin with, so thats a BIG PLUS.

 

Okay then, Orton looks THREATNING in the ring, and realistic as a wrestler.

You hate Cruiserweights? Well I hate Randy Orton so that's a BIG PLUS.

 

Besides I don't find Orton threatening in the ring nor does he look realistic as a wrestler to me because well......he bores the hell out of me.

Someone like Paul London looks very credible(when booked right...of course he doesn't look credible getting squashed by Brock...but neither would Orton) and I doubt I'd want to fight the guy.

 

So if VKM told you to kill your mother you'd do it? 

 

 

 

What I meant was, I've been watching WWE sonce I was seven, and I've been pretty happy with what VKM has thrown at me, and I'm not gonna stop now.

 

 

 

After seeing how much he's hated on here, it made me somewhat defensive of my Orton fan status. 

 

 

 

Ditto. Pretty much the same way I despise London because half this board treats him like the Messiah

Well I've been watching the WWF since I was 6 and VKM has thrown plenty of shit at me over the years to where I'm not going to trust the guy as far as I can throw him...and he's a pretty big guy.

 

So you only hold your opinion because it's the opposite of what everyone else thinks? Good.....you're a dumbass.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

No.....I didn't say all the time. I just said consistent. If he was given 20 minutes against someone like Kidman then he'd reach the ***-**** barrier.

 

Well he's not gonna get 20 minutes (thank christ).

 

Someone like Paul London looks very credible(when booked right...of course he doesn't look credible getting squashed by Brock...but neither would Orton)

 

Orton DID get squashed by Brock on SD before his jump to Raw....and he's the IC Champ feuding with Foley.

 

So you only hold your opinion because it's the opposite of what everyone else thinks? Good.....you're a dumbass.

 

Not really, but most people here won't give him a CHANCE, but London is God, and should be WWE Champ NOW!!!!, according to certain people.

 

Well, coming out with ignorant comments like "a lot of people don't see a difference between junior matches and spotfests" I'm not surprised you've received some slack. I'm not going to deny that there have been many shitty junior matches, but there have been junior matches that are ranked amongst some of the best matches ever. I'd certainly put a number of NJPW junior matches above anything worked on US soil

 

And I havent seen them!!!!!! Gods sake I think thats the billionth time I've said that. The NJ Juniors I have seen, I havent like. Your'e not Tim Cooke are you??? I really should post the hate-filled ignorant PM he sent me.

[Damaramu 0]

No.....I didn't say all the time. I just said consistent. If he was given 20 minutes against someone like Kidman then he'd reach the ***-**** barrier. 

 

 

 

Well he's not gonna get 20 minutes (thank christ).

 

Well if he did that'd be the result. Orton gets 20 minutes and can't produce(damn christ)

 

 

Someone like Paul London looks very credible(when booked right...of course he doesn't look credible getting squashed by Brock...but neither would Orton)

 

 

 

Orton DID get squashed by Brock on SD before his jump to Raw....and he's the IC Champ feuding with Foley.

I'm willingly to bet the majority of the marks in the crowd don't even remember that Randy Orton was on SD at one time.

Oh and if in a year Paul London is the IC champion and feuding with Foley then he'd actually be over you know because well.....he can entertain a crowd with his wrestling matches.

 

So you only hold your opinion because it's the opposite of what everyone else thinks? Good.....you're a dumbass. 

 

 

 

Not really, but most people here won't give him a CHANCE, but London is God, and should be WWE Champ NOW!!!!, according to certain people.

Not a chance!? The guys been on TV for nearly 2 years yet and hasn't impressed me one bit! I've been watching Paul London wrestle less than that and I'm impressed as hell! I don't think he should be WWE champ but he should have a substantial push. The fans would be entertained...which is important you know. And who are these certain people you keep rambling about!?

 

Well, coming out with ignorant comments like "a lot of people don't see a difference between junior matches and spotfests" I'm not surprised you've received some slack. I'm not going to deny that there have been many shitty junior matches, but there have been junior matches that are ranked amongst some of the best matches ever. I'd certainly put a number of NJPW junior matches above anything worked on US soil

 

 

 

And I havent seen them!!!!!! Gods sake I think thats the billionth time I've said that. The NJ Juniors I have seen, I havent like. Your'e not Tim Cooke are you??? I really should post the hate-filled ignorant PM he sent me.

No but he's speaking the truth. There's a ton of good Junior Matches out there and you can't judge them until you've seen it all...that's just ignorant.

I've seen a ton of Junior matches and I'm entertained and I know they'd get over in America.

I've seen EVERY Randy Orton match on TV and haven't been entertained one bit so of course I'm going to want that stuff over the Randy Orton shit!

 

Next time before you open your mouth you should really know what the hell you're talking about.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

And I havent seen them!!!!!! Gods sake I think thats the billionth time I've said that. The NJ Juniors I have seen, I havent like.

 

Then don't imply they are spotfests when you haven't seen them.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Ok, let's go over this again.

 

The NJ Junior Division 2001 - Present Day Bores me, because it's largely MMA Based.

 

American Cruiserweight Wrestling misght as well be spotmonkey fests for all I care, since, with the exception of Funaki and Tajiri, I can't stand cruisers.

 

There's a difference between being bored by something, and outright hating it. I know that a good deal of Koji Kanemoto's matches are "boring", but I know that they're at least going to be better than whatever the hell Sonjay Dutt inflicts on me when he gets into the ring.

 

I gave Paul London a chance. And he sucked. I have a hard time believing that it's the same guy who worked ROH. I just wish that he'd follow Spanky, become a whiny prick, and outright leave.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Ok, let's go over this again.

 

Yes, let's

 

The NJ Junior Division 2001 - Present Day Bores me, because it's largely MMA Based.

 

I dunno about that. A bit of matwork, submissions and kicking/punching has always been seen in NJPW Jr. matches. Not all Juniors wrestle that style (see Liger). The match quality '01-now is worse than in the 90s, but I don't think that has much to do with a style change.

 

American Cruiserweight Wrestling misght as well be spotmonkey fests for all I care, since, with the exception of Funaki and Tajiri, I can't stand cruisers.

 

Care to give any GOOD reason why?

 

I gave Paul London a chance. And he sucked. I have a hard time believing that it's the same guy who worked ROH. I just wish that he'd follow Spanky, become a whiny prick, and outright leave.

 

How could you give London a chance if the company he works for hasn't really even done it. " I have a hard time believing that it's the same guy who worked ROH" suggests that you liked his ROH work. London wasn't a cruiser in ROH?

[Guest wildpegasus]

Orton is nowhere near a Cruiser

How much does he weigh? about 225? Benoit/Eddie must have all been around that weight when they wrestled as Cruisers. Particularly Benoit, he was roided out of his gourd.

I'm not sure of Benoit's weight* but I would say Eddie's actually about the 200pd mark if that. Benoit starting getting really bigger around 1999 which is when you just notice how much bigger he is than Liger (who is actually really built but the suit hides it) compared to how he used to be when he was wrestling him in say 1996.

 

*Angle said in an interview before something like, "Benoit is a 202pd wrestler who wrestles much heavier" which I find very interesting. We all know the WWE inflates the weight of their wrestlers so I guess you can only go by the inflated weights the WWE goes by otherwise everything gets screwed up. I'd like to see Benoit standing beside Storm without either wretler lifting lifts (which is very important) because Storm has given his bodyweight out before and it'd be interesting to see how other wrestlers compared to him

 

 

 

 

 

I noticed Orton actually lost weight over the last while which seems to be the trend among Noble, HHH, Batista and maybe even Lesnar. At his biggest there, Orton wasn't a cruiser but right now I think he could pass. However, I just don't think people have the perception of him as a cruiser.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Having muscles, orange skin and thinning hair does.

I don't want to go on a roid rant here but orange skin can come from tanning, muscles can come from working out and thinning hair can come from nature. I'm not going to say who I think's on or off but let's just say there would be some surprises there.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

The funny thing about the 'roid debate is that everyone will totally accept HHH is on steroids, but if someone suggests that Benoit, Angle, Eddie etc. (who are all equally likely candidates) are on 'em, it's uproar.

[snuffbox 0]

yay! dave the gimmick vinceaholic is still in the wwe thread!

 

also, id just like to add that Chris Benoit IS my favorite wrestler...and its quite obvious hes been on steroids or something similar.

[Guest wildpegasus]

The funny thing about the 'roid debate is that everyone will totally accept HHH is on steroids, but if someone suggests that Benoit, Angle, Eddie etc. (who are all equally likely candidates) are on 'em, it's uproar.

Right now, I'd say HHH is off. Before I'd say he was on. Most wrestlers who are on are probably cycling with growth hormone. To me, it looks like Benoit has actually been off for a little bit lately. For what it's worth, Angle claims he's not on as well as saying Lesnar's clean. Cena claimed he wasn't on too. However, both of them kind of said there was roid use without actually saying it. If you read between the lines, you could tell from a fairly rescent HHH interview that he wasn't denying people could be on. Of course, there's always that doctor's list too. Personally, I don't like to say someone's on or off because while it's a compliment for someone to say you're juiced up when you're actually natural it can also be insulting of someone's charactor. Not that taking roids/growth hormone is evil per say especially in fixed wrestling as stuff like alcohol and tobacco is actually worse (although if anyone's taking insulin, that's dangerous) in a lot of ways but I don't think it's fair to call someone a "cheater" when you really don't have proof. Genes and knowledge play such an important role with everything in bodybuilding. Most people don't know that. The skinnier guy can actually be the guy who's on the juice.

[snuffbox 0]

The funny thing about the 'roid debate is that everyone will totally accept HHH is on steroids, but if someone suggests that Benoit, Angle, Eddie etc. (who are all equally likely candidates) are on 'em, it's uproar.

Right now, I'd say HHH is off. Before I'd say he was on.

unfortunately...its now totally fucked his body anyway. he will never be able to work a full schedule or have the same caliber of matches he once did. he will always be very prone to injury. and of course these things would bar most workers from the main events/world titles....but not Hunter Hearst Son-in-Law.

[Dandy 0]

I don't doubt that a lot of the wrestlers are on the juice or have done so recently, but they do work out and stuff, you know. Benoit, for instance, has been training for around 20 years. You work out for 20 years and wrestle close to a nightly basis and see if you don't look pretty good. They are also very conscious of what they eat, and the supplements they take. I have taken supplements, ate the right foods for muscle building, and worked out, and the results can happen very quickly. I can't imagine what I'd look like if I kept that up for years on end.

[Guest wildpegasus]

The funny thing about the 'roid debate is that everyone will totally accept HHH is on steroids, but if someone suggests that Benoit, Angle, Eddie etc. (who are all equally likely candidates) are on 'em, it's uproar.

Right now, I'd say HHH is off. Before I'd say he was on.

unfortunately...its now totally fucked his body anyway. he will never be able to work a full schedule or have the same caliber of matches he once did. he will always be very prone to injury. and of course these things would bar most workers from the main events/world titles....but not Hunter Hearst Son-in-Law.

Of course wrestling takes it's toll on your body and HHH has now been around for a good while. He's not 20 years old anymore either. One of the problems with roids is that it makes your mucles grow too fast and tendons/ligaments don't adapt as fast so they have a hard time supporting everything. If you climb up more gradually in muscle you'll adapt and be less likely to injure yourself. Stretch marks are also a result of muscle growing very fast as the skin just can't grow at the same rate the muscle's expanding.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I don't doubt that a lot of the wrestlers are on the juice or have done so recently, but they do work out and stuff, you know.  Benoit, for instance, has been training for around 20 years.  You work out for 20 years and wrestle close to a nightly basis and see if you don't look pretty good.  They are also very conscious of what they eat, and the supplements they take.  I have taken supplements, ate the right foods for muscle building, and worked out, and the results can happen very quickly.  I can't imagine what I'd look like if I kept that up for years on end.

Just so everyone knows, you don't get big by just supplementing yourself with aissistance. Working out, eating and resting is all essential. The two things wrestlers have against them are injuries and rest. Injuries have to put several nails in the coffin as far as gaining muscle or maintaining it which is just another reason why wresters would need extra help compared to the average person who just decides to train. That's good you had some success training there but in most people's cases the gains mainly come at the beginning. After a while, your body just starts adapting more and more making it all the trickier to add more muscle. It becomes more of a challenge. Some people who arent' beginners anymore who have been training wrong for a while and than start training more accordingly can also gain another big surge of muscle but my point here is that training for 20 years doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be bigger than the person who's trained for a lesser time that's at the same genetic level. Wrestling nightly is actually a detriment to gaining muscle as it drains your ever important recovery reserves. Wrestler's on average however would have better genes so they can get away with doing things such as overtraining, neglecting rest...etc that the average folk can't. In that regard which is a very big point, someone can make a case for them being less on the roids than most people think.

 

 

Forgot to mention muscle memory which is important. Let's say someone starts training for the first time in his life and gains a good amount of muscle. Than they quit training for a while and lose their muscle. Now later they get the itch to train again. It will be easier the 2nd time around to acquire a lot of the muscle they had before.

[Damaramu 0]

Whoa.......who doesn't think Angle is on roids? Notice how big he got when he won the WWE title the first time? He got that way quickly to.

 

Oh and......Randy Orton's pretty lean but it suits him......he's look funny if he tried to balloon up to HHH size.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Whoa.......who doesn't think Angle is on roids? Notice how big he got when he won the WWE title the first time? He got that way quickly to.

 

Oh and......Randy Orton's pretty lean but it suits him......he's look funny if he tried to balloon up to HHH size.

He's the one who claimed he wasn't.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Angle has gotta be on roids. From his debut to the end of 2000 he looked like he morphed into the Hulk in size. He was losing his hair pretty fast (unless it's genetic, but from the look of his family, it's not) so he shaved bald.

[Dandy 0]

Wilpegasus, you make very true statements regarding working out, training, and the fact that 20 years of training doesn't necessarily mean you will be bigger. However, the "look" to wrestlers is a VERY big part of their career. They work hard at maintaining and improving their physiques. If you get to the point of where you hit a plateau, or "the wall" as it is commonly referred to, switching up your routine could be all you need to get over it. Now there is also a point where you can not possibly gain any more, as well. My point is that Benoit has gradually gotten bigger in his arms and upper body over a period of a couple of years. I assume (and granted, that's all I am doing) that he was comfortable wrestling at a lighter weight, especially in Japan, but needed to get stronger and bigger to compete at a heavyweight level. He had been training for years at that point, and packing on some muscle wouldn't necessarily require steroids. Eating more calories in a day with higher protein would make him bigger, not to mention training with less repititions and heavier weights. I think he got stronger so he could maintain his wrestling styles against heavier opponents.

[Guest MikeSC]

No.....I didn't say all the time. I just said consistent. If he was given 20 minutes against someone like Kidman then he'd reach the ***-**** barrier.

 

Well he's not gonna get 20 minutes (thank christ).

Why? Have you seen enough of him to assume he couldn't produce? Heck, when I first saw Angle, he didn't do much for me.

Someone like Paul London looks very credible(when booked right...of course he doesn't look credible getting squashed by Brock...but neither would Orton)

 

Orton DID get squashed by Brock on SD before his jump to Raw....and he's the IC Champ feuding with Foley.

And, on SD, Orton was horribly not over. Insatiably so. The crowd couldn't WAIT to lose their heat when he appeared.

 

OK, that hasn't changed too much.

So you only hold your opinion because it's the opposite of what everyone else thinks? Good.....you're a dumbass.

 

Not really, but most people here won't give him a CHANCE, but London is God, and should be WWE Champ NOW!!!!, according to certain people.

Nobody is saying that. I wouldn't support London as Champ as it is. Btu he deserves a CHANCE to show his stuff. Heck, they already lost a tag team (Spanky & London) that could've worked quite well in the tag division.

Well, coming out with ignorant comments like "a lot of people don't see a difference between junior matches and spotfests" I'm not surprised you've received some slack. I'm not going to deny that there have been many shitty junior matches, but there have been junior matches that are ranked amongst some of the best matches ever. I'd certainly put a number of NJPW junior matches above anything worked on US soil

 

And I havent seen them!!!!!! Gods sake I think thats the billionth time I've said that. The NJ Juniors I have seen, I havent like. Your'e not Tim Cooke are you??? I really should post the hate-filled ignorant PM he sent me.

I'm not fond of all of the NJ Juniors, either (the run of Ka Shin killed it for me), but all juniors don't have to do spotfests.

 

Rey and Tajiri worked quite well together. I wouldn't call their matches spotfests.

-=Mike

[Guest wildpegasus]

Wilpegasus, you make very true statements regarding working out, training, and the fact that 20 years of training doesn't necessarily mean you will be bigger.  However, the "look" to wrestlers is a VERY big part of their career.  They work hard at maintaining and improving their physiques.  If you get to the point of where you hit a plateau, or "the wall" as it is commonly referred to, switching up your routine could be all you need to get over it.  Now there is also a point where you can not possibly gain any more, as well.  My point is that Benoit has gradually gotten bigger in his arms and upper body over a period of a couple of years.  I assume (and granted, that's all I am doing) that he was comfortable wrestling at a lighter weight, especially in Japan, but needed to get stronger and bigger to compete at a heavyweight level.  He had been training for years at that point, and packing on some muscle wouldn't necessarily require steroids.  Eating more calories in a day with higher protein would make him bigger, not to mention training with less repititions and heavier weights.  I think he got stronger so he could maintain his wrestling styles against heavier opponents.

He's also gotten bigger in the legs at least at some points in time. I don't know if Benoit does it all the time or not but I think he actually trains with very little rest periods over a period of 1hr. Than he does cardio for an hour. I would naturally guess he changes things up whenever he thinks it's time. People have reported him to be a very intense trainer. I'm going to refrain from arguing about whether Benoit's on or not because it's not in my heart to do so. But fust for fun, let's see how Benoit's physique has changed over the years:

 

Interestingly enough, Benoit according to the Stampede scales was 185 back in 85 when he was around 18 years old. He had obviously been training for a while as he was built. Right than, I would say it's pretty safe to say he was off. After that Benoit went to Japan. He returned in late 1987 in Stampede and had risen up to 215 pds but wasn't as ripped or holding as much muscle as he would later on. Obviously he's doing something different now. Around 1990 in New Japan he almost seemed to almost be at his biggest but it was hard to tell. In 1993 during the WCW days he appeared to have shrunk. He was still listed as 220 or so lbs but had obviously lost muscle since 1992. I dare say he was off during 1993. In 1994 Benoit starting to once again grow as evident by watching the J-Cup. In 1995 he was RIPPED and had lots of muscle. Still not as big as he is today but he was more ripped. It wan't really until maybe 1998 or 1999 that he got to his biggest ever weight while holding very little fat. In the WWE I think he was a little bigger mostly and that's where we're currently at today. I actually thought he lost a few lbs rescently.

[Jack_Bauer 0]

I gave Paul London a chance. And he sucked. I have a hard time believing that it's the same guy who worked ROH. I just wish that he'd follow Spanky, become a whiny prick, and outright leave.

 

You make it so hard to defend you.

 

He has had a couple of VERY good matches on Velocity, and Spanky wasn't just a whiny prick.

 

WWE are the pricks.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Spanky wasn't just a whiny prick.

 

Waaaah..I'm not getting pushed, so I'm leaving. Selfish bastard. Funaki's got even less of a push than what Spanky got, and you don't see him walking out.

 

Nobody is saying that. I wouldn't support London as Champ as it is. Btu he deserves a CHANCE to show his stuff

 

Eh......HELLO!!!! Match with Lesnar???, w/Kidman vs The Bashams????? Again, more than Funaki gets

 

And whoever it was that asked, yes I've seen TONS of ROH, and generally like it, on it's own. There's no way half that shit would work in the WWE, which a lot of people here can't quite fathom.

 

Dave O'Neill is a proud supporter of the "WWE Style"

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Spanky wasn't just a whiny prick.

 

Waaaah..I'm not getting pushed, so I'm leaving. Selfish bastard. Funaki's got even less of a push than what Spanky got, and you don't see him walking out.

 

Nobody is saying that. I wouldn't support London as Champ as it is. Btu he deserves a CHANCE to show his stuff

 

Eh......HELLO!!!! Match with Lesnar???, w/Kidman vs The Bashams????? Again, more than Funaki gets

 

And whoever it was that asked, yes I've seen TONS of ROH, and generally like it, on it's own. There's no way half that shit would work in the WWE, which a lot of people here can't quite fathom.

 

Dave O'Neill is a proud supporter of the "WWE Style"

Batista lover.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Actaully I'm a Big Show Mark

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Actaully I'm a Big Show Mark

Well, thats a plus. Big Show can be entertaining and is decent for a big fat guy.