UseTheSledgehammerUh 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 In between WrestleMania 19 and 20... Triple H has wrestled 27 times total on PPV and Raw. That's really pathetic, that in 50 weeks, he's barely wrestling once every 2 weeks. Now, also know that... 11 of these matches were six-man tags or tag matches. None are memorable, and the best was probably the Backlash 6-man with HHH, Y2J, and Flair Vs. Nash,Booker T, and Michaels. And that match wasn't anything special. 16 were singles. Squashed Hurricane and Spike Dudley in a few minutes. A good, but short effort against Flair (from the Flair DVD). 2 decent efforts in 2 weeks against Kane and RVD. Elimination Chamber, where he did nothing. 2 VERY-WELL BUILT, but kinda flat losses to Goldberg. 2 Draws Vs. Michaels. So nearly a year with the World Title...and HHH's top matches are... Vs. Michaels (draw), December. Vs. Michaels (draw), Royal Rumble. Elimination Chamber II, where he did nothing. If HHH/Benoit/Michaels is the LAST MATCH at WM 20, I'll be sick. But I do now realize that if it is, Michaels HAD to be included. Triple H is incapable of having an exciting/decent match without Shawn, anyore. As good as Benoit is, the crowd would shit on the match, just because they're tired of Triple H's shoddy (or lack of) appearences on TV/PPV, and quite frankly, the "Benoit title chase" is worthless with the chase being for Triple H's worthless belt. At least Michaels can add some heat to the match, which I personally believe should be third from the top. God, even Hogan during his "wrestle 2 times a year" stage of the NWO in WCW had a few more memorable moments. Ah, well. Here's the complete list, is anyone was curious. Did any of you guys LIKE any of these specific matches? SINGLES: 9-3-4 Pinned Hurricane. Fought to a no-contest with Booker T. Lost to Kevin Nash by DQ. Pinned Ric Flair. Defeated Shawn Michaels & Ric Flair. Pinned Kevin Nash. Pinned Kane. Pinned Rob Van Dam. Defeated Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Goldberg, and Kevin Nash. Lost to Goldberg. Lost to Goldberg. Fought to a no-contest with Goldberg. Defeated Goldberg and Kane. Fought Shawn Michaels to a draw. Fought Shawn Michaels to a draw. Pinned Spike Dudley. TAGS: 5-5-1 (with Chris Jericho) Lost to Booker T & Michaels. (with Ric Flair) Lost to Booker T & The Hurricane. (with Flair & Jericho) Defeated Kevin Nash, Shawn Michaels, & Booker T. (with Ric Flair) Lost to Rob Van Dam & Kane. (with Flair & Orton) Defeated Kevin Nash, The Hurricane, & Shawn Michaels. (with Flair & Orton) Defeated Bubba Ray, D-Von, & Spike Dudley. (with Flair & Orton) Lost to Shawn Michaels, Goldberg, & Maven. (with Flair) Fought to a no-contest against Goldberg & Randy Orton. (with Flair & Orton) Defeated Maven, Mark Jindrak, & Garrison Cade. (with Batista & Orton) Defeated Goldberg. (with Flair & Batista) Lost to Shawn Michaels & Rob Van Dam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Yeah, for as great as he is you can't squeeze a Raw match out of him anymore. On Smackdown the champ always seems to be in a match. And not only is he the first heel to leave Mania with the world title...but he's done it twice and will do it again. I understand that now with two titles there's room to do that, but it shouldn't be with a guy who never works on tv. They shouldn't alter the way they work Wrestlemania for this guy...who's not half as over as he was in 99-00. He worked as a heel champ in 99-00 cause he was a better worker, and his promos were mostly about how angry he was and what he was going to do to the guy...now he just goes "I'm great-uhhh!" for 10 minutes at a time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BifEverchad 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 I liked the story and the build for the Flair match on RAW in May, the match was decent. The match with Michaels at the end of 2003 was great. The rest of his work was trash. Can't wait to see him retain on Sunday! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Want to know the main difference? Back at Mania 16 NO ONE expected the heel to retain. Flash forward 4 years...and not only do people expect it...but they down right loathe the product for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UseTheSledgehammerUh 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 You know what's funny? Booker T at this time last year was more over than Benoit is now. (we may collectively admire Benoit's abilities more than T's...but Booker was still more over). We gave Booker a snowball's chance in hell at Mania. What happened? And people give Benoit a chance this year. "Of course he'll win!" I smell Triple H coming out at Continental Airlines Arena, squashing Hurricane in 1 minute, the night after Raw. "I TOLD YOU...I ALWAYS HAVE THE EDGE." Whoa...he sure did use the word "Edge" a lot on RAW last night... Hmmm.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 From the daily Ovserver update. Nothing major...but it adds to the "3 way as main event" side of the argument: Tivo subscribers are being sent a 10 minute Wresltemania preview and past highlights package. This was put together some time ago, as the only match featured is the "main event" of HHH vs. Chris Benoit for the title. This must have been done before the Rumble, since the wheels were in motion for Michaels probably a week or so before the Rumble to be added to the main event. Interesting they didn't push Taker vs. Kane or Goldberg vs. Lesnar, both of which were decided by the fall of 2003. (thanks to Russ Cress) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Want to know the main difference? Back at Mania 16 NO ONE expected the heel to retain. Flash forward 4 years...and not only do people expect it...but they down right loathe the product for it. That about absolutely NAILS the problem with most of the booking this (and last) year. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 I don't think it's so much that the heel's expected to win as much as it is HHH is always expected to win Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 That's what I meant. I think most marks expect Angle to win because he's more established than Eddie. At least...that's what I gather from the WrestleMania predictions thread on the Bills board I go to. Everyone who picked Goldberg to win...picked Angle as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Either way, when the show's said and done my reply will be..."fuck Triple H!" They shouldn't have even put Benoit in the main event if they didn't trust him and Hunter to draw as a 1-on-1 match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 I also predict that Backlash will bomb. They can't sell me Benoit going after HHH's title after not winning at Mania. They can't even sell me HHH getting a shot at the title if Benoit wins. They could sell me Benoit vs. HBK because: A: The match would be good. 2. Benoit would be a mega face, and HBK would be a mega heel...to the crowd anyway C: Benoit would win for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UseTheSledgehammerUh 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Well, my friends and I are either A)Really smart about the business or B)New to the product (because of me getting them into it). The newbies aren't marks, they like guys like Jericho, La Resistance (because of Rene's dance) and the other hard workers. We enjoy cocky, arrogant people like Orton, Michaels, La Res., etc. Going INTO the show, we'd like the following to happen: -Michaels wins. Guerrero wins. Lesnar wins. La Resistance wins. The 2 on 3 match to be entertaining. Molly shaved. World's Greatest to win. Taker to look cool. Jericho to look cool or Christian to look cool, just have a good match. We'll get... HHH wins, DAMNIT. Pinning Benoit and killing our heat by eliminating Michaels, first. Molly wins. Angle wins with a "handful of tights"/feet on ropes (see: Angle at WM 17, 18...). THE WORLD'S SHITTIEST BORING TEAM of Booker T & RVD retain. Rikishi & Scotty valiantly defend the belts. The problem with guys like HHH is you're suppose to say "Hey! I hate this guy! Ok, ok, he won a few PPV matches...now it's WM and he will finally get his!" Instead, we get "HHH runs the show...maybe he'll lose...but it won't matter in 2 months...HHH RULES HE IS GOD". So who fucking cares about the main event? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 I hate to keep saying "HHH in 99-00"...but HHH in 99-00 got serious heat cause the fans just hated him. He had to have the face comeback mainly cause he was gone so long. But you knew the heel turn was coming and that he was going to win and retain the title forever...which he didn't even win in the first place. In the last year he killed Booker's push, predictably dropped the belt to his buddy Shawn to get it right back...and worked a decient enough program with Goldberg only to ruin it by getting the belt right back. I think the fans hate him cause he's just so boring to listen to, he hardly wrestles, and when he does the matches are hit and miss with predictable finishes. Take the belt off of Hunter and cycle it onto a few people before giving it back to him. He's duller than shit right now and could use something different Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Well...I'm almost positve at this point that HBK is taking the fall. I'm just not certain who's pinning him. I'd say I'm 55/45 in favor of HHH winning. I would really like to think that the Eddie win last month was a sign of things to come. And that they won't end WrestleMania XX with a heel winning this match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UseTheSledgehammerUh 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Suppose HHH drops the title. HBK/Benoit would be a cool Backlash ME. With HHH as guest referee! I ALWAYS HAVE THE ADVANTAGE!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! No-Contest, of course, after both are Pedigreed. Bret then POPS THE CROWD AND RETURNS IN EDMONTON!!!!! And hugs HHH and reveals Triple H as the "Mastermind" of the Montreal Screwjob, THEY SCREWED SHAWN... Match is restarted and HHH pins both men at the same time to win World Title back. "This-uh, will pop the ratings-uh, dad." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OnlyMe Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Those stats are great, but meaningless unless compared to everyone else's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Amazing Rando 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 I also noticed him using the word "edge" like it was going out of style last night. Every other fucking word ... it was like Hogan's "Ultimate" promo... it just kept coming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2004 Hunter should lose the world title and him and Edge have a monster run as heel champs...feud em with the Dudleys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Deviant Report post Posted March 10, 2004 Some people put too much effort into their HHHate... And dammit, I'm still saying that Benoit will win the title at Mania, shitty build-up or not. The match will also go on last. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted March 10, 2004 I'm actually sort of expecting Michaels to win at the moment. Triple H is going to need to take a break, it would work well for Michaels character and motivation (beating Triple H and taking from Benoit), and Michaels/Benoit should be the BackLash main event. I'm pretty much over the fact that Benoit isn't going to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Deviant Report post Posted March 10, 2004 Well, at least the smark community's skepticism will lead to one hell of a mark out moment when Benoit does win. *continues living in that which is probably just blissful ignorance* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 10, 2004 a few weeks ago... Most would have been fine with HBK winning as long as the title was OFF of HHH and that he didn't go over at Mania... Now? We'd rather HHH assfuck us again then HBK be the champion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2004 Those stats are great, but meaningless unless compared to everyone else's. meaningless?... they mean...Pauly is God...God doesnt lose. not even to Chris Benoit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 10, 2004 Hello...He only WON 12 of those 27 matches... Which means he jobs or goes No contests a whole fucking lot. Yet, TSM sweeps that little factoid under the rug. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OnlyMe Report post Posted March 10, 2004 Choken One is correct, snuffbox. See, Triple H won 12 / 27, but what are you comparing that to? What is Goldberg's win / loss ratio? What about HBK? Or Lesnar? Angle? Matt Hardy? Unless you have something to compare the data to, what can you do with it? OMG HHH WON 12 / 27 BURN HIM HE'S A WITCH~!!!21. I'd bet that Goldberg's won a whole lot more than that. But it's not just the wins and losses, it's HOW they win or lose - like how Hurricane pinning the Rock last year meant nothing, but Goldberg pinning him meant (supposedly) more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2004 how many clean singles jobs are there?... how many instances of really putting another worker over are there?... how many clean wins, as a heel, does he have on there?... how many otherwise-credible workers have been damaged by these results?... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2004 HHH loses all the meaningless tag matches. That pads his stats. If you look in the Raw threads the weeks those matches take place...somewhere in them I will alert everyone that a meaningless tag match is about to take place...and that HHH is losing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OnlyMe Report post Posted March 10, 2004 Right, that's what I'm saying. The statistics don't provide enough information to form a reasonable conclusion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2004 Right, that's what I'm saying. The statistics don't provide enough information to form a reasonable conclusion. They do for me... You always know the result of a HHH match in advance...and it must not just be a smark thing, because the marks dont seem to be buying the product now either... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 10, 2004 just like when Hogan went over everyone unless it was a TV match where there would be a DQ finish to start the next program. It's the SAME fucking thing here... The difference? the fans were willing to take it then... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
