Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I still wonder if Bret never got injuried, Would he have used his power play ability to Keep Benoit from getting demoted and humliated by Sullivan? Bret Hart had power in WCW? he was a main eventer and the title holder...that gives you some power Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 21, 2004 "destroyed", buried and have all his big moves no sold. Hard to take a man seriously as a threat after that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 Someday you'll get a world title shot after ten years of being abused by going against a man who got pushed to the top in one year and still wants more (see Lesnar/ Holly RR 2004) I must have misread that. It seems like you are saying that Holly deserved that push. No, I don't think Holly deserved that push in any form at all. He should be jobbed out in my opinion, but my point was that, if you stick around long enough, you'll get back to some point where you are needed again, if you're saying that he wasn't needed. Either way, it's still a lame thing to do. If they let Taker do what Taker *supposedly* wanted to do, he might not have had the opportunity to come back later. What was he going to? Was he going to get buried alive? Crucified? Put in a casket? He'd have to act like Taker's bitch through the feud. Did you not see Smackdown...you had the World Champion Eddie Guerrero cowering from the Taker and the guy with the on-off mega push Rey Mysterio backing off. I'm not saying they SHOULDN'T back off from Taker. I'm saying they shouldn't be put in that position if they're being pushed. Brock feuds with Taker. Brock's afraid of Taker. Brock's character and look don't suit being scared. And after having to run from Holly for months, that'd be the final nail in Lesnar's credibility. Hell, Lesnar's finisher would have been destroyed in the process no doubt, because no doubt Taker'd sit up from the F-5. Once your finisher is downplayed, nobody reacts to it as well as when it's feared. Case in point...the Angle Lock. People escape 90% of the time from it now, and it shows from crowd reactions when Angle locks it on. On a side note...wasn't one of the original plans for Souled Out (I think Russo's, not certain) to have Tank Abbott in the main event? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I still wonder if Bret never got injuried, Would he have used his power play ability to Keep Benoit from getting demoted and humliated by Sullivan? Bret Hart had power in WCW? he was a main eventer and the title holder...that gives you some power COUGHJerichoCOUGH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I still wonder if Bret never got injuried, Would he have used his power play ability to Keep Benoit from getting demoted and humliated by Sullivan? Bret Hart had power in WCW? he was a main eventer and the title holder...that gives you some power COUGHJerichoCOUGH Cough:SID:Cough There's just one last defense about Holly's 2 month push. If I remember correctly, he had 2 short programs with Kurt Angle in late 2000 and sometime in 2002, with Holly actually looking like he could win. I know it wasn't PPV, but Angle was still already built as a credible main eventer, and having to feud with midcarder for life Holly didn't hurt him at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I'm not defending him at all, but didn't he and Crash beat the Rock & Sock Connection for the tag belts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I'm not defending him at all, but didn't he and Crash beat the Rock & Sock Connection for the tag belts. Foley stayed on the apron. So The Hollys had to beat The Rock two on one to win the belts. That about says it all for where Holly should be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I still wonder if Bret never got injuried, Would he have used his power play ability to Keep Benoit from getting demoted and humliated by Sullivan? Bret Hart had power in WCW? he was a main eventer and the title holder...that gives you some power COUGHJerichoCOUGH Cough:SID:Cough There's just one last defense about Holly's 2 month push. If I remember correctly, he had 2 short programs with Kurt Angle in late 2000 and sometime in 2002, with Holly actually looking like he could win. A couple of notes. The sum total of both "feuds" was less than a month. The second Angle/Holly situation is almost universally panned by everyone for making Angle look like absolute shit. I know it wasn't PPV, but Angle was still already built as a credible main eventer One other thing. For the second situation, May/June of 02, The Kane and Edge disasters had left Angle firmly a midcard talent. Foley stayed on the apron. So The Hollys had to beat The Rock two on one to win the belts. That about says it all for where Holly should be. An injured Rock, and they only won when HHH pedigreed him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted March 21, 2004 That's the last time I stand up for Bob Holly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest I Got Banned for Sucking Report post Posted March 22, 2004 I can't see any reason for Chris Benoit or Eddie Guerrero to up and leave just yet, but if they did for the right reason/s, while it would be a disappointment of epic proportions, I'd accept it, but wonder just what the fuck WWE were going to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Banders Kennany Report post Posted March 22, 2004 "destroyed", buried and have all his big moves no sold. Hard to take a man seriously as a threat after that. But I think the fans understand Deadman Taker does that all comers. It is a bit of a stretch to say he is damaged forever. That son of a ho Kevin Sullivan would just keep humiliating Chris Benoit over and over. No one in power had it out for ol' Brock like that. Vince may have got mad at him over something, but you know he loves Brock with all his heart because he likes them big. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted March 22, 2004 I never really understood the whole 'Kevin Sullivan was out to screw Benoit and put the World Title on him to do it' deal. Seems like a really roundabout way to mess with a guy ... you know, because he stole your wife and all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 I thought it was always a gesture of good will, as if to say "please don't jump to the competition." Sullivan was probably forced into it by higher-ups. Problem was (from WCW's standpoint) that Benoit saw through the bullshit and knew that, sooner or later, Sullivan was going to screw him over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2004 The end result is the same. Humilation and demotion. I wouldn't say that. I doubt he was going to be totally bitched out by Taker. Even if he lost a PPV match (which even then I'm not sure about because of how abdly SD needed heels) then you really don't look bad. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as being afraid of Hardcore Holly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 The end result is the same. Humilation and demotion. I wouldn't say that. I doubt he was going to be totally bitched out by Taker. Even if he lost a PPV match (which even then I'm not sure about because of how abdly SD needed heels) then you really don't look bad. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as being afraid of Hardcore Holly. Depends. Say Lesnar beat GBerg, and then lsot to Taker. The momentum he got from beating Goldberg would pretty much be taken away. If Lesnar still lost to GBerg, stayed, and lost to Taker, it certainly wouldn't help him. And, yes, it doesn't get much than being afraid of Hardcore Holly. Hell, even Pete Gas wasn't afraid of Hardcore Holly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2004 The end result is the same. Humilation and demotion. I wouldn't say that. I doubt he was going to be totally bitched out by Taker. Even if he lost a PPV match (which even then I'm not sure about because of how abdly SD needed heels) then you really don't look bad. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as being afraid of Hardcore Holly. Depends. Say Lesnar beat GBerg, and then lsot to Taker. The momentum he got from beating Goldberg would pretty much be taken away. If Lesnar still lost to GBerg, stayed, and lost to Taker, it certainly wouldn't help him. And, yes, it doesn't get much than being afraid of Hardcore Holly. Hell, even Pete Gas wasn't afraid of Hardcore Holly. Yeah but Taker and Lesnar have always been booked as equals more or less. So a loss to Taker wouldn't be a HUGE blow to credibility for him. Sounds to me like Lesnar was going to leave anyway, and is just trying to justify it to himself as many ways as he can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 22, 2004 Yeah but Taker and Lesnar have always been booked as equals more or less. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Okay, let's talk about this.. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
