Guest Downhome Report post Posted February 10, 2002 I was recently in an AOL Wrestling chat room, something I almost never do because most of the "fans" in there just drive me crazy, and the topic of the chat came to that of the death of Owen Hart. Almost everyone in there kept insisting that "Vince killed Owen", and other random comments along the same line of thinking. They kept saing that Vince was single-handedly responsible for what happend because he told Owen to do the stunt. They said there was no other factors, and Vince was THE factor to blame. Suffice it to say, none of the guys in there liked Vince at all. Then they go on to say that stuff that WCW did, like Kanyon falling off the cage, rafter stuff, etc... was simply "a slap in the face" to Owen Hart. They said that NO ONE should EVER do anything in the rafters again, no one should take HUGE bumps off of cagest, etc..., simply out of respect. Ok, about here, I just left the chat... ...now my thoughts on this was that it was simply an accident, much like the Drozz ACCIDENT. No one is truly to blame, unless you care to place the blame on fate itself. Hmmm, in their thinking... ...I suppose "Vince paralyzed Droz", as Vince told him to wrestle a match one time. The stunt that Owen performed is a stunt which has been performed on more than one occasion. Hell, even HBK himself at one time was semi-lowered to the ring, in that great match against Brett Hart. It was done many times in WCW also... ...hell, Owen himself even performed the stunt earlier in the day. Now, I do not mean to bring back this horrible event. God knows it was tragic, and was truly one of the lowest moments, if not THE lowest, in the history of not only the WWF, but the entire Pro. Wrestling industry. I only bring this up because I saw that AOL chat, and wanted to ask all of you this... ...do any of you TRULY place all the blame on Vince? It was an accident, and only an accident. Could it have been avoided? Yes, of course, but, we never know when the next tragedy is going to occur. Hell, the next time that someone takes a powerbomb, piledriver, etc... they could have their neck snaped, and pass away right there. Does this mean we should avoid all instances where something horrible COULD happen? I don't think so... ...and as a result of those said accidents, we shouldn't let it change everything. The industry must move forward, and it always will in my eyes... ...accidents happen, unfortuently. Sincerely, ...Downhome... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChris Report post Posted February 10, 2002 I don't blame Vince for the accident. I think what he did following the accident, i.e. finishing the PPV when it was quite evident that none of the wrestlers wanted to be out there, was quite callous. But the accident was just that...an accident. Vince holds some responsibility for putting Owen in that position, just as the riggers hold some responsibility for putting Owen in a faulty harness, and Owen himself for allowing himself to be talked into it (as cold-hearted as that sounds). But to blame Vince entirely is wrong, and anyone who says differently is likely biased against Vince. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AM The Kid Report post Posted February 10, 2002 Well, it's a very touchy subject. When the accident happened I was crushed(I grew up watching Owen...he was one of my heros) and I placed some of the blame on Mcmahon. I don't anymore, Vince was just trying to bring some extra entertainment to the show and it went horribly wrong...it was an accident. Some people think that Vince might as well have been in the rafters and shoved Owen off...that's not it, I'm sure the very last thing Vince would ever do would be harm one of his Superstars like that. It was a fluke accident...nowone is to blame as far as I'm concerned. I just miss Owen.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 10, 2002 I don't think Vince killed Owen. It was just a freak accident. While Vince is no angel, he isn't to blame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Vanilla Midget Report post Posted February 10, 2002 Vince, is not to blame, his only fault in the matter was allowing owen to do the stunt in the first place. any blame should be placed on the heads of the guys that rigged the harness etc, as it was their job to ensure that an accident such as this did not occur. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChris Report post Posted February 10, 2002 I miss Owen too. I can't believe it'll be 3 years in May since his death...it doesn't seem nearly that long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cataclysm911 Report post Posted February 10, 2002 Here's my thoughts: It should have never happened. Period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheBigBadBootyDaddy Report post Posted February 10, 2002 wow cataclysm, no shit it shouldnt have fucking happened. what a wonderful blatantly obvious statement to inform us of. Is John Madden your hero? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JAMES900 Report post Posted February 10, 2002 That accident is impossible to blame just one person for anoyne who does is not thinking rationally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest areacode212 Report post Posted February 10, 2002 I don't blame Vince entirely, but he does ultimately hold some responsible for it. He is, after all, the owner of the company that asked Owen to perform the stunt. Sure, Owen could have said no, but should the WWF have asked him to perform such a dangerous stunt in the first place, for the sake of a ten-second "superhero-like" entrance for the Blazer? If the WWF really was a circus, and Owen was some kind of trapeeze artist, it would be different (though Vince would still be partly responsible), since high-risk stunts are part of the job description. But the way Owen died had nothing to do with what he was hired to do, which is wrestle matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest gizmo Report post Posted February 10, 2002 As for somebody saying that no high risk moves should be pulled off, thats like saying that nobody should be allowed to powerbomb because of what happened to droz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Slapnuts00 Report post Posted February 10, 2002 Its certainly not Vince's fault, it was an accident. The blame should be placed on whoever designed the harness equipment, which was obviously faulty/not fit to hold a 200 pound plus man. If Owen was uncomfortable with the stunt he should have refused to do it, but its all in the past now. Also, Vince was in the right to continue the show immediately after he fell, because of the confusion of the situation and just to keep things moving, but just before the Rock/HHH match when news was reached that he had died, the show should have stopped. After the tribute RAW the next night they could have done a Beware of Dog 2 kinda thing on Tuesday or Wednesday where they make up the last few matches after the accident. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest areacode212 Report post Posted February 10, 2002 As for somebody saying that no high risk moves should be pulled off, thats like saying that nobody should be allowed to powerbomb because of what happened to droz. No it isn't. There's a difference between powerbombing and being lowered from the rafters. Performing moves like powerbombs is essential to a match; stunts like Blazer's entrance are not. There's a risk of injury in every move (even in taking a step, as Triple H proved). But wrestlers accept that because that's what they *do*. Perform moves in the ring. The stunts are unnecessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lil Naitch Report post Posted February 10, 2002 I was not a wrestling fan when the accident happened, but I remember hearing about it on the news the next day( I live in St. Louis) and thinking it was a damn shame. Since I did not grow up watching Owen Hart perform (unfortunately, I've since seen some of his matches and found him quite entertaining), I feel I can look at this objectively.Whoever set up the harness was ultimately to blame for the accident. Owen could have refused, but he didn't. Vince could of (and should of, in my opinion) stoped the show after the accident, but he didn't. Fate and faulty equipment killed Owen, not Vince. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Badd Company Report post Posted February 11, 2002 As someone who was at Kemper that night, watched Owen enter the building that afternoon (everyone watching the wrestlers come in started chanting "We want Bret", which caused Owen to come back out of the parking garage and flip us all off jokingly), and watched in horror through a nearby fan's binoculars the aftermath of the fall (I had semi-nosebleed seats), it's pretty much impossible in my opinion to blame anybody. Pointing fingers this late in the game will do no good. Owen in the end chose to try the stunt, but it's hardly his fault. I wouldn't blame Vince (Russo or McMahon) either, as I'm sure they carried it on their consciences for a long while afterwards. The sport lost a great man, a wife lost a husband, and a son and daughter lost a father, and trying to use such a loss as ammo in an "I hate Vince" argument (especially after all this time has passed) is really petty and sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nobody in Particular Report post Posted February 11, 2002 Saying Vince is to blame for Owen's death is no different than saying the likes of General Motors and Ford are to blame for the deaths of car crash victims. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest InigoMontoya Report post Posted February 11, 2002 Good point "Nobody In Particualr". You can't blame one person, and a person who you blame can always find someone to blame for his actions. The guys who rigged the harnesses can blame the people who trained them... the people who trained them can blame the company who hired them because they weren't given good enough resources to train these people etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest THE SH0CKMASTER Report post Posted February 11, 2002 does anybody know if they got this on camera?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted February 11, 2002 I hope it isn't on Camera. I think part of the blame lays on the WWF because Owen should have had a lot more training then what he had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikjohns Report post Posted February 12, 2002 I think part of the blame lays on the WWF because Owen should have had a lot more training then what he had. How do you know how much training he had, junior? Vince knew and accepted the risks. Owen knew and accepted the risks. The stunt co-ordinator knew and accepted the risks. Where's the difference? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest theWCWRaider Report post Posted February 12, 2002 I don't think you can pin the blame on just 1 person. Yes, the harness makers didn't do their job properly. But, had Vince not asked Owen to do the stunt, they would have never needed the equipment. Also, there is a rumor that the whole Blazer gimmick was a sort of punishment for Owen refusing to do an angle with Debra, whereby they would be having an afair. As far as doing it again, it was already said above. Those stunts are not necessary for a wrestling show, whereas, wrestling moves are necessary for a wrestling show, despite the WWF's best efforts to prove that statement wrong. I wasn't comfortable with Sting coming down from the rafters after Owen died, no matter how much training I knew he had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Amy Ace Report post Posted November 29, 2005 Owens death was so tragic, its such a shame. That should definately never have been allowed to happen. I do very much feel the WWE was at least partially responible, along with the unqualified stunt coordinator they hired to oversee the thing. Their neglegence was without a doubt criminal and its a travesty that neither were ever brought to the full justice of the law. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hbkhhhmark4life 0 Report post Posted November 29, 2005 I miss Owen too. I can't believe it'll be 3 years in May since his death...it doesn't seem nearly that long. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just a quick correction as it will be 7 years in may since his death, but i remember i woke up the morning after and it was all over the news, sad day for wrestling and the hart family Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted November 29, 2005 I miss Owen too. I can't believe it'll be 3 years in May since his death...it doesn't seem nearly that long. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just a quick correction as it will be 7 years in may since his death, but i remember i woke up the morning after and it was all over the news, sad day for wrestling and the hart family <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you even check the dates on those posts at the top of the thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haws bah gawd 0 Report post Posted November 29, 2005 Vanhalen im just wondering if its your gimmick to bring back random 3 year old threads on every board here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianGuitarist 0 Report post Posted November 29, 2005 I won't lie, when it first happened, I was a 14 year old mark. I blamed Vince. Now, while I do feel he could have handled it differently, and think it could have been prevented, he's not to blame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted November 29, 2005 Yeah, I thought so too when I saw it, guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
