Ultimate Athlete FINALS...

[Guest MikeSC]

With more than 80,000 votes cast, it's decidedly in one athletes favor (I'm not going to say who, just in case people want to be surprised.)

 

But, suffice it to say, it's not even close and I'm not even a little surprised.

IT's RACIAL!!!

 

Just kidding. Actually, I believe the poll results more reflect how the public has bought into the media's infatuation with Armstrong more than anything else. Think about this, though. How many of the voters actually watch the Tour de France? They're just going off of what they've been told.

Because actually thinking that winning a bike race of well over 100 miles through mountains is more athletically impressive than playing QB in the NFL just isn't possible.

-=Mike

[Guest Redhawk]

It's certain possible -- maybe even probable. However, you can't sit there and say the Lance lovefest -- coupled with the fact that not many people actually watch the TDF -- hasn't had SOMETHING to do with it.

[treble 0]

That doesn't make any sense. They're voting for him since they've never actually seen him compete? If that were the case it'd be David Beckham or some other soccer player vs. Armstrong in the finals, then.

[CanadianChris 0]

It's certain possible -- maybe even probable. However, you can't sit there and say the Lance lovefest -- coupled with the fact that not many people actually watch the TDF -- hasn't had SOMETHING to do with it.

That you can even sit there and say that LA is a media creation boggles the mind.

 

Have you ever watched the damn race?

[Guest MikeSC]

It's certain possible -- maybe even probable. However, you can't sit there and say the Lance lovefest -- coupled with the fact that not many people actually watch the TDF -- hasn't had SOMETHING to do with it.

Wow, a Vick supporter calling another athlete a media creation.

 

What next, a Bonds supporter griping that ESPN is giving another athlete too much love?

-=Mike

[MrRant 0]

Not that many people watch the TDF? You are clueless. I've seen people call in to order the channel (usually Outdoor Life) just to WATCH the freaking thing... not to mention it's an international competition.

[KingPK 0]

It's certain possible -- maybe even probable. However, you can't sit there and say the Lance lovefest -- coupled with the fact that not many people actually watch the TDF -- hasn't had SOMETHING to do with it.

Yeah, and no one cares about the World Cup when it comes around, either.

 

If it's Armstrong vs. Vick, I'm going with Armstrong easily, simply because we have seen Armstrong go through something that would completely drain a normal person, but he sucked it up and not only competed in one of the most grueling events in sports, but WON it multiple times (dominating the competition every time, IIRC). Vick's hype is built on what he could potentially do. The guy could stink up the joint and retire in 4 years, we don't know.

[Guest Redhawk]

If Lance Armstrong is not a media creation/darling, answer me this riddle...

 

1) Why, in discussions of greatest athletes ever, do people always bring up Lance but they NEVER bring up Miguel Indurain (5 TdF's), Eddie Merckx (5), Jacques Anquetil (5) or Bernard Hinault (5)?

 

Are you saying that if you made up a list of 100 best athletes ever, you would have more cyclists on there than football players?

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

If Lance Armstrong is not a media creation/darling, answer me this riddle...

 

1) Why, in discussions of greatest athletes ever, do people always bring up Lance but they NEVER bring up Miguel Indurain (5 TdF's), Eddie Merckx (5), Jacques Anquetil (5) or Bernard Hinault (5)?

 

Are you saying that if you made up a list of 100 best athletes ever, you would have more cyclists on there than football players?

Indurain is not as good as Armstrong. Merckx and Hinault are better, Anquetil is probably debatable. As far as those guys go, people don't list them because the Tour de France didn't get the media coverage in North America back in the 1970s and 1980s that it does now (this doesn't apply to Indurain, but as I said few regard him as better than Armstrong). Greg LeMond is the guy who really opened up the eyes of North Americans to competition cycling.

 

As far as "greatest athlete" type competitions go, while Armstrong isn't the greatest pure cyclist of all time, I would offer that he is a better, more well-conditioned athlete than any of his predecessors, and a worthy contender for such a title.

[Guest Redhawk]

1. Exactly my point. Media coverage is a HUGE part of Lance Armstrong's legend. However, Jim Thorpe and Jim Brown are still considered Top 5 athletes of all time even though they didn't get as much media coverage as athletes in the 1990s-2000s.

 

2. How can you judge which one of them is better? Everyone on here is all, "HE WON FIVE!" Those guys won five, too, yet I haven't heard their names once.

[Guest MikeSC]

If Lance Armstrong is not a media creation/darling, answer me this riddle...

 

1) Why, in discussions of greatest athletes ever, do people always bring up Lance but they NEVER bring up Miguel Indurain (5 TdF's), Eddie Merckx (5), Jacques Anquetil (5) or Bernard Hinault (5)?

 

Are you saying that if you made up a list of 100 best athletes ever, you would have more cyclists on there than football players?

Dirty little secret: They're not American, so the U.S sports media doesn't care about them.

 

In my list of great athletes, boxers, trathletes, and bikers would be far more prevalent than football players, yes.

2. How can you judge which one of them is better? Everyone on here is all, "HE WON FIVE!" Those guys won five, too, yet I haven't heard their names once.

If it makes you feel better, then yes, they're all better athletes than Michael Vick.

1. Exactly my point. Media coverage is a HUGE part of Lance Armstrong's legend. However, Jim Thorpe and Jim Brown are still considered Top 5 athletes of all time even though they didn't get as much media coverage as athletes in the 1990s-2000s.

And media coverage is the ONLY reason Vick is even considered for the top slot in your eyes.

-=Mike

[Guest Redhawk]

I've seen Mike Vick play many times, which is why I put him up there. I even saw him play in college before he was "discovered" by the hype machine. I've also watched some of the TdF. But your point about those other TdF bikers not being famous because of the media only supports my point; that most people voted for Armstrong because of his media hype.

[Guest Goodear]

Well, yeah they're both there because of media hype at this point. Lance at least has made meaningful strides in his sport though and Vick hasn't. Vick goes the rest of his career with no meaningful playoff success, he's just going to be remembered as Randall Cunningham Jr. I don't think I would put either man in my top five of athletes to be honest but between the two, Armstrong is the winner.

[Guest Redhawk]

Again, what does team success have to do with Vick's individual athleticism? Bo Jackson didn't win any Super Bowls or World Series, yet no one doubts that he was one of the best athletes ever. Winning playoff games doesn't make you a better athlete. If it did, than Brad Johnson would be considered one of the most athletic QBs in the league.

[Guest MikeSC]

Again, what does team success have to do with Vick's individual athleticism? Bo Jackson didn't win any Super Bowls or World Series, yet no one doubts that he was one of the best athletes ever. Winning playoff games doesn't make you a better athlete. If it did, than Brad Johnson would be considered one of the most athletic QBs in the league.

Bo Jackson's athletic ability was unquestionable. You can't be an All-Star in two sports and not be one amazing athlete.

 

Vick is a good QB. He's not even the BEST QB in the NFL.

-=Mike

[Jorge Gorgeous 0]

Again, what does team success have to do with Vick's individual athleticism? Bo Jackson didn't win any Super Bowls or World Series, yet no one doubts that he was one of the best athletes ever. Winning playoff games doesn't make you a better athlete. If it did, than Brad Johnson would be considered one of the most athletic QBs in the league.

Bo Jackson's athletic ability was unquestionable. You can't be an All-Star in two sports and not be one amazing athlete.

 

Vick is a good QB. He's not even the BEST QB in the NFL.

-=Mike

Its not the "Best Quarterback" competition, however. Quarterbacking has a lot to do with athletic ability, yes, but theres also a myriad of mental aspects involved. To say that Michael Vick is a creation of the media and Lance Armstrong isn't is ignorant, in my opinion. Armstrong has littered magazine covers, ESPN, the internet, etc... now I may be wrong, but those are all mediums of the media. You know why Armstrong is a greater creation of the media than Mike Vick will ever be? Because Americans, as a whole, don't give a shit about professional cycling, they don't give a shit about the Tour de France and yet - I can go ask my mom who Lance Armstrong is, and she could tell me. Doesn't take away from his physical prowess, but homeboy is a media darling if I've ever heard of one.

[Guest MikeSC]

Again, what does team success have to do with Vick's individual athleticism? Bo Jackson didn't win any Super Bowls or World Series, yet no one doubts that he was one of the best athletes ever. Winning playoff games doesn't make you a better athlete. If it did, than Brad Johnson would be considered one of the most athletic QBs in the league.

Bo Jackson's athletic ability was unquestionable. You can't be an All-Star in two sports and not be one amazing athlete.

 

Vick is a good QB. He's not even the BEST QB in the NFL.

-=Mike

Its not the "Best Quarterback" competition, however. Quarterbacking has a lot to do with athletic ability, yes, but theres also a myriad of mental aspects involved. To say that Michael Vick is a creation of the media and Lance Armstrong isn't is ignorant, in my opinion. Armstrong has littered magazine covers, ESPN, the internet, etc... now I may be wrong, but those are all mediums of the media. You know why Armstrong is a greater creation of the media than Mike Vick will ever be? Because Americans, as a whole, don't give a shit about professional cycling, they don't give a shit about the Tour de France and yet - I can go ask my mom who Lance Armstrong is, and she could tell me. Doesn't take away from his physical prowess, but homeboy is a media darling if I've ever heard of one.

Lance has won the biggest event in his sport for FIVE YEARS.

 

Vick won a single playoff game.

 

Their level of achievement isn't close.

-=Mike

[Guest Redhawk]

As I've said so many times before, football is not an individual sport. Therefore, winning football games has nothing to do with how good of an athlete someone is.

[CanadianChris 0]

As I've said so many times before, football is not an individual sport. Therefore, winning football games has nothing to do with how good of an athlete someone is. I would think a Kings fan would understand that championships don't mean everything.

Cycling is not an individual sport either. Each cyclist is part of a team, and the leader of the team doesn't win if the supporters aren't strong enough for the task.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Well these are two different types of athletes. Vick is a phenomanal blend of speed, quickness, arm strength. He is one of the most athletic QB's I have ever seen. He is the type of player who can single-handledly beat you by himself. Steve Young and Elway used to have that ability in their hey day, and Vick has it now, IMO. Just look how bad the Falcons were when he was out injured. If he stays healthy, and the Falcons can surround him with some WR/RB's, he is capable of taking a team to the Promise land. And plus, he is awesome on Madden 2004. I mean we are talking Bo Jackson in Tecmo Bowl legendary status. But Vick is still young, so he has way more to go in showing that he can be consider a great player. But I do like watching him play. The play where he out ran the Minnesota Vikings in OT two years ago was one of the more memorable plays of that year. Being that I did not vote in this poll, all I can do is comment that Vick is a special athlete, but does have a long way to go. But giving the Packerst their first home lost in the playoffs in such a long time, just begins to add to his legacy.

 

As for Lance Armstrong. I am not a big cycling fan at all, but I do respect all the endurance that goes into it. It is a very grueling sport, and I know if I tried to do what these athletes do, I would die after a few miles, and those would be just the warm up laps. But what impresses me the most is that Lance almost died from cancer, which had spread to a large percentage of his body. He even lost on of his best friends, and I don't mean the ones in the Winnebego. But some how he fought it. And what happened next is just amazing. He won the most grueling sport not two years in a row, not three, or four, but five times. And also the fact that this is France's national pasttime, it makes it even more sweeter that a bloody American has owned this race. That has to earn bonus points there. Every year this race goes on, I am always paying attention to it to see if Lance can win it again. But, I am not sure if Lance could shine at other sports, like basketball, or tennis. I think he is specialist athlete, one who shines brightest at one, but maybe not so much at others. But I was glad that he was named SI Athlete of the Year.

 

So who is the best athlete? For athletic talent, Vick gets my vote. But for being a dominate talent, Lance would get that vote. Plus, throw Lance on a football field, and he would get smeared. Put Vick on a bike, and I bet he ends up puking. So in the end I am glad that we have two great athletes to admire. One just beginning to come into his own, and one that will go down as one of the greatest of all time in cycling as well as greatest athletes period. And one more plus for Lance, he pisses off the French everytime he wins, so that is the tiebreaker right there.

[Fökai 0]

But your point about those other TdF bikers not being famous because of the media only supports my point; that most people voted for Armstrong because of his media hype.

 

In case you've have or (in this case) haven't noticed, foreign athlete's awe-inspiring accomplishments are often overlooked by the US media. Case in point...EVERY FOREIGN ATHLETE EVER.

 

Vick hasn't accomplished anything statistically as of this post. So what do we go by? His athletic achievements - Vick's dash time and arm strength - are why the media fawns over him.

 

What makes Armstrong a media darling? Not only has he fought back from a life-threatening disease, he captured FIVE CONSECUTIVE Tour De France championships, the most grueling athletic competition in the world today. If accomplishments didn't factor in the athleticism of an individual, every two-sport Joe Schmo would be considered better athletes than Vick OR Armstrong. I'd like to think that Lance Armstrong is more of an athlete than Brian Jordan is/was.

[Guest Redhawk]

Yeah, that Pele guy gets no respect. Neither does that Beckham kid, and that Lennox Lewis fellow.

 

Anyway, accomplishments give the athlete the stage to be put into consideration, but they don't make you a better athlete. We might not have known who Vick was as early as we did had he not led Va. Tech to the national title game. But once he's on the stage, judge him against other athletes based on ability, not whether or not his team wins.

 

In regards to those "two-sport bums," Vick has shown on the field to be more athletic than all of them except probably Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson.

[Fökai 0]

Yeah, that Pele guy gets no respect. Neither does that Beckham kid, and that Lennox Lewis fellow.

Soccer players and boxers?

 

Mentioned in the the UNITED STATES?

 

You HAVE been living under a rock.

[Jorge Gorgeous 0]

Yeah, that Pele guy gets no respect. Neither does that Beckham kid, and that Lennox Lewis fellow.

Soccer players and boxers?

 

Mentioned in the the UNITED STATES?

 

You HAVE been living under a rock.

First off... if people are talking about boxing anywhere, its in America, you just have to look for it harder now than you did 30 or 40 years ago. Lennox Lewis got tons of face time as did Vitali and Wladimir Klitscho(I spelled that WAAAY wrong), the only Americans who get the same amount of chatter in boxing are Jones and Tyson (if you still want to call him a boxer.) As far as Pele' goes, he got his due back when he was playing and Freddy Adu is recieving a fair amount of press now. Pele definitely wasn't American, and Adu wasn't born here. I fail to see the meat in your argument that foreign born athletes don't get any attention here in America. Tim Duncan isn't American, he seems to get a lot of press... Gagne isn't American... Steve Nash, Ichiro Suzuki, Albert Pujols, Tony Parker, Yao Ming, Jarome Iginla, Wayne Gretzky, Vlad Guerrero, Sammy Sosa, Manny Ramirez, Miguel Tejada, Pedro Martinez... I don't think I need to continue.

 

So as far as

EVERY FOREIGN ATHLETE EVER.

goes... you're wrong.

[Guest Redhawk]

Don't forget Vijay Singh and all those European golfers. Oh yeah, and Annika Sorenstan was totally ignored by the press, right.

[Guest MikeSC]

Don't forget Vijay Singh and all those European golfers. Oh yeah, and Annika Sorenstan was totally ignored by the press, right.

Oh lord, somebody is actually arguing that foreign athletes get tons of press here?

 

If you want to go that route --- how in the world is Michael Vick ahead of Diego Maradona or Pele?

 

I mean, since foreign players get as much pub as American players around here.

-=Mike

[Guest Redhawk]

Ahead of them in what?

[Guest MikeSC]

Ahead of them in what?

This "ultimate athlete" finals thing. I mean, they are only two of the greatest soccer players in history, and it can be argued that soccer is a more grueling sport to play.

 

How is Vick ahead of them, since foreign players get the same buzz?

-=Mike

[Guest Redhawk]

Well, the poll was only about active athletes, so that may have something to do with it. Last I checked, Pele was like 60 years old and Maradona weighs about 250 pounds.

 

Anyway, how can you say foreign athletes DON'T get a lot of press in America? Watch Sportscenter for a few days and you'll see that not everyone metioned is American.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, the poll was only about active athletes, so that may have something to do with it. Last I checked, Pele was like 60 years old and Maradona weighs about 250 pounds.

 

Anyway, how can you say foreign athletes DON'T get a lot of press in America? Watch Sportscenter for a few days and you'll see that not everyone metioned is American.

If you go by int'l appeal, soccer should dominate SC (thank God it doesn't).

 

If active players are eligible, why isn't a soccer player up there? The fact that the only one I can name internationally is Beckham --- and that's only because he nails a Spice Girl --- shows how much "love" they don't get.

-=Mike