Continuing the Reviewers Discussion

[Guest Dids]

I just wanted to put my bit in.

 

I read the Raw and Smackdown reviews because I like JHawk's writing and I always miss parts if not all of both shows.

 

I used to read Dames TNA recaps, but A- I'm not a fan of Laz's reviews and B- the shows stopped being interesting enough to follow.

 

Shoot Reviews are great when it's somebody I care about.

 

Anything sports or pop culture related I stay away from.

 

In terms of review style- I think straight PBP is horrible to read. Just give me a brief run down of the match as part of the review. I don't need or want to know about every arm drag.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

In terms of review style- I think straight PBP is horrible to read. Just give me a brief run down of the match as part of the review. I don't need or want to know about every arm drag.

 

Ditto. For example, when I read Scott Keith's "rants", I don't even bother to read what happens during the matches, and just skip to what he thought of it, which is usually a dumbass few word sentence like "This was there" and "Perfectly acceptable wrestling".

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I actually don't mind PBP in reviews, but the only time I want to read a review like that is when I miss the show completely. If I saw the show and wanna get a feel of how the reviewer liked it or not, I'd rather read their own thoughts instead of PBP.

[Guest goodhelmet]

In terms of review style- I think straight PBP is horrible to read. Just give me a brief run down of the match as part of the review. I don't need or want to know about every arm drag.

 

I actually don't mind PBP in reviews, but the only time I want to read a review like that is when I miss the show completely. If I saw the show and wanna get a feel of how the reviewer liked it or not, I'd rather read their own thoughts instead of PBP.

 

Agreed. PBP is perfectly acceptable when recapping a show. As a writer, I guess it is acceptable when you put some personality into your recaps. The problem I have when someone who recaps is tacking on a star rating for no rhyme or reason. I guess we are supposed to assume that the match description justifies the star rating without any critical thinking or worthwhile explanation.

 

This is the biggest problem with a guy like SK, Bob Barron, Baisden, etc. is the lack of analysis or true evaluation of the matches. They skim the lowest levels of thinking skills (if thinking is even involved) and automatically assume their lackluster recaps are enough to justify the snowflakes. Bullshit... pure bullshit.

 

You know, one of the biggest issues when Chris Coey started posting his articles on the site was how he was an asshole on the boards, he was mean, he is biased towards joshi, blah blah blah.

Whatever issues you have with Chris ON THE BOARDS, and they may or may not be valid, he knows how to examine a match, discuss the strong points, notice flaws, offer suggestions on how the match could be improved, and give me a clearer picture on the merits of a wrestling match. Why can't more writers do this? They either don't have the ability or they are too fucking lazy. The merits of Chris Coey's writing skills far outweigh any negative stigma he has on message boards.

 

For the longest time, I was a lazy reader... give me star ratings so I can run out and buy the tape. Well, fuck that shit because I have too many wrestling tapes sitting on the shelf, collecting dust, a complete waste of money, never to be watched again. Why? Because I let my opinions be swayed by some two-bit hack who tacked a star rating on the end of a recap and was "respected" by a bunch of teenagers who discovered Wrestleline during the wrestling boom. As I sat through hundreds of mediocre matches that were given ****~!~!@, I realized I had been duped, as a consumer and as a reader.

 

Since this is a topic pertaining to TSM reviewers/recappers, I would be interested in hearing the opinions of the writers on the site who dish out star ratings or do extensive PBP. What is your reasoning in doing PBP? Is it to recap? Does it jusify your star rating? When you dish out a star rating, what is your reasoning in giving it any stars at all? Do your articles clearly prove that a high star rating is merited or is it due to popular opinion?

 

Let me be clear that this isn't an attack on any of the staff writers, several who I personally selected to write for the site. I just think that if you are writing to express your opinion, and want your opinion to count, then these are questions that need to be addressed... Not just to improve the quality of the site but to help improve your skills as a writer.

[KingPK 0]

In my case, there really isn't much you can do to analyze a match when it's all of 3 minutes (like every match on this week's SD outside of the main). I really struggled to figure out what the hell to say about those matches, and whether or not to give a rating at all, since they seemed so damn pointless (Chavo-Jackie and Cena-Basham, as examples). I know I overrated the main event, but I was just happy to see a damn match go longer than 5 minutes and have the participants actually show some effort.

 

IMO, a recap should be more about telling the reader what happened if he/she missed the show while trying to give SOME analysis for those that did. If you are doing a PPV or show that everyone knows about, then yeah, keep the PBP to a minimum and break the match down and give some good analysis.

 

Problem with that is, I'm not sure that many people can break down and analyze as well as Coey, so it's kind of tough to emulate what he does since I KNOW he is much more knowledgeable than me at this stuff.

 

EDIT: And Will, you realize getting duped isn't totally the WRITER'S fault, right? You made the decision yourself to base your purchases on his opinions, not him.

Edited May 12, 2004 by Kingpk

[Guest Dids]

In my case, there really isn't much you can do to analyze a match when it's all of 3 minutes (like every match on this week's SD outside of the main). I really struggled to figure out what the hell to say about those matches, and whether or not to give a rating at all, since they seemed so damn pointless (Chavo-Jackie and Cena-Basham, as examples). I know I overrated the main event, but I was just happy to see a damn match go longer than 5 minutes and have the participants actually show some effort.

 

IMO, a recap should be more about telling the reader what happened if he/she missed the show while trying to give SOME analysis for those that did. If you are doing a PPV or show that everyone knows about, then yeah, keep the PBP to a minimum and break the match down and give some good analysis.

 

Problem with that is, I'm not sure that many people can break down and analyze as well as Coey, so it's kind of tough to emulate what he does since I KNOW he is much more knowledgeable than me at this stuff.

 

EDIT: And Will, you realize getting duped isn't totally the WRITER'S fault, right? You made the decision yourself to base your purchases on his opinions, not him.

I think there's a huge difference between "letting the reader know what happened" and straight PBP.

 

Give me the flow of the match, the high spots, the finish. But straight PBP is boring as hell even if I didn't see the match. It's also just plain hard to read with any type of flow that allows you to picture what's going on.

[Guest goodhelmet]

EDIT: And Will, you realize getting duped isn't totally the WRITER'S fault, right? You made the decision yourself to base your purchases on his opinions, not him.

 

Absolutely... and that is when I came to the decision to seek out writers who put some thought into their reviews and gave enough valid reasons on why a match or tape should be purchased. I admit... I was a lazy reader.

 

 

As for your comments about recapping a show like SD or Raw, I don't necessarily disagree that the recapping could be useful to someone who missed the show. I just think that if someone rates a match favorably then they should take the time to explain why it deserves a high rating.

[JHawk 0]

I've said it before, but since the question's been asked:

 

The main reason I do straight play-by-play is simple. When I was trying to pay rent during school I couldn't afford things like food, much less cable, so I couldn't watch anything except SmackDown and whatever syndicated show I could get on my antenna that week. That meant I was relying on the internet to follow the cable shows, and even back then Scott Keith was a rather lazy writer, so I'd get the result but no sense of what actually happened. The only recapper I could find that did enough to give me a feel for the show was CRZ. I didn't need to read the interviews word for word, but the PBP of the matches was appreciated. So basically, I write for the people that didn't see the show. If you saw it and just want my opinion, that's what the commercial break paragraph is for. Theoretically, everybody should be happy.

 

As far as using star ratings...well, I'd rather not use them since A) people always bitch about them, and B) It's not usually that hard to figure out if I like something or not, but without using them you always get e-mails asking "Why don't you rate matches?" and I got tired of answering them. Sometimes I'm lazy and forget to explain the rating, but I try to respond to it when called out on it.

[Dr. Tom 0]

I can't tell you how many people used to email me and complain about my x/10 rating system. For some reason, dividing that x of 10 by two to get the ***** equivalent was too much for some people...

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Guilty Tom.

 

It made me think.

[Guest Loss]

My whole point has always been that I want to know an opinion on every little frame of the match. I want constant analysis and I want a deeper look.

 

Let's use this as an example. I'll break down all the questions I'd have while reading the last match SK gave *****. Here goes:

 

- RAW World title: HHH v. Shawn Michaels v. Chris Benoit. Despite weeks of crappy booking, Benoit is clearly the crowd favorite here, as MSG’s traditional hatred of Shawn has kicked in again full force.

 

What made the booking crappy? How does Benoit look entering this match? What is Shawn's history in MSG? Does the heat help the match? If so, when?

 

And what’s with the white boots on HHH? Did Steph buy them for Christmas and withhold sex unless he wore them or something? On the upside, the gay bicycle shorts are gone and HHH is back to regular tights again.

 

I'll refrain from commenting on this.

 

Shawn goes after HHH to start, but Benoit pulls him away and they fight over who gets to fight.

 

Is this a good way to start the match or is it bad? Compare this to opening sequences in other 3-ways and tell me which was more effective.

 

Benoit takes him down immediately and starts chopping Shawn, to the delight of the crowd, but Benoit whips Shawn into HHH and slugs away.

 

How did Benoit's offense look? How was Shawn's selling? Are they doing the right thing at this portion of the match?

 

Shawn takes him down with a headlock, and they do the pinfall reversal sequence off that, and Benoit crosses Shawn up with another crossface attempt, which Shawn reverses for two.

 

What pinfall reversal sequence? Is it one they did on RAW verbatim? If so, is it in context here? Does Benoit going for the crossface so early and often get old after a while? Did the crowd buy the nearfall?

 

Northern lights suplex gets two for Benoit, and Shawn clotheslines him down, but HHH returns and lays Shawn out.

 

Where has HHH been? Would you call his lack of involvement lazy or part of the story? If so, what is the story? How do they transition from a Northern lights suplex to Shawn being up and clotheslining him? Was the transition any good? If so, what made it work? If not, what could they have done better?

 

He tosses Shawn, who skins the cat back in while Benoit pounds HHH, but Benoit gets dumped.

 

Who dumps Benoit? Who is gaining the advantage by this point? Are they playing off of the history of any of the participants? Does Benoit getting temporarily thrown out of the picture help or hurt the match? Is doing a series of arbitrary singles sequences a flaw?

 

Shawn backdrops HHH and throws some chops, but walks into a high knee, which gets two.

 

Is Shawn wrestling like a man focused on winning the title? Is HHH wrestling like a man focused on keeping it? Has the offense been crisp?

 

Benoit fires away with shoulderblocks from the apron, but hits knee and gets sent into the apron by HHH afterwards. Shawn hits both of them with a baseball slide and follows with a moonsault. Guys with torn ACLs probably shouldn’t be doing that. Back in, Shawn gets two.

 

He gets two on whom? Did Shawn show any indications of being injured here?

 

He throws chops on HHH , but puts his head down and eats knee. Pedigree is broken up by Benoit, who goes right for Shawn again with knees, and sends him into the post. Snap suplex and he fires the chops, but HHH sends him into the corner and puts him on top, hanging him in the Tree of Woe to keep him occupied for a bit.

 

Does keeping him occupied work at this point? Is it believable?

 

HHH whips Shawn into Benoit, and gets two on Shawn. Now why hasn’t anyone thought of that before in a triple-threat match?

 

That's the closest thing to analysis thus far.

 

Another try is reversed, and Shawn rolls up HHH for two. They slug it out and Shawn gets the forearm and kips up, but Benoit promptly clotheslines him over the top to get rid of him. Rolling germans on HHH follow, and he does the SNOT BLOW~! and goes up, only to get crotched by Shawn. Shawn tries to superkick HHH, but it backfires and he gets DDT’d, leaving Benoit hanging on the top. HHH & Benoit slug it out on top, leading to a superplex on Benoit for two. HHH pounds him on the mat, but Benoit fights back, winning a slugfest, but puts his head down and HHH goes for the Pedigree, but Benoit reverses to the crossface, which HHH is able to fight off until Shawn can save. Shawn hits Benoit with an attempt at rolling germans, drawing big boos, so Benoit reverses to his own, which the crowd enjoys more.

 

Are the nearfalls working? Of the three, who's looking the best here?

 

Back up for Benoit, and the flying headbutt gets two. Shawn knocks him out of the ring with a forearm and comes back on HHH with clotheslines and a slam to set up the flying elbow, and the superkick gets two, as Benoit saves. They all brawl outside and Shawn brings Benoit back in and starts chopping. Benoit reverses him into the corner and takes him down with a catapult into the corner that triggers a gory bladejob, so fast that I couldn’t even see him do it. Benoit takes him down for another crossface, but HHH prevents him from tapping. Benoit and HHH fight outside and head over to the tables, where Benoit gets whipped into the stairs and HHH preps the announce tables. Benoit comes back on HHH, but Shawn recovers and joins them, and Benoit takes a double-suplex through the Smackdown table as a result. With Benoit apparently out of the equation, Shawn calls HHH into the ring while dripping blood everywhere. He’s about 1.0 Muta at this point. He slugs away on HHH and whips him over the top, into a cameraman, and HHH eats post and starts bleeding too, because apparently that’s what all the cool kids are doing at Wrestlemanias these days. Back in, Shawn slugs away, but HHH hits him with the Pedigree as the crowd starts going nuts for Benoit to recover and make the save.

 

Is the pro-Benoit crowd a result of the match layout? If so, what did they do to make that work?

 

HHH gets two, and as desired by MSG, Benoit makes the save. Benoit starts chopping HHH, but HHH goes for the Pedigree, so Benoit reverses to the Sharpshooter. The pop for that would be massive if it was the finish. Sadly, it’s not, as Shawn saves with a superkick. He gets two on Benoit. He goes for the kill, and the crowd chants for Benoit as he sets up for the superkick (ouch, that’s gotta hurt), but Benoit dumps him. He looks like he’s gonna walk into a Pedigree, but he reverses to the Crossface in mid-move. HHH fights it and almost makes the ropes, but Benoit pulls him back. HHH tries one last desperation reversal, but Benoit holds on, and Edmonton goes insane as HHH taps to the crossface to make Chris Benoit the World champion at 24:46.

 

Does the blading add to the match? Does it help that no blading was done on the entire show before this? Do you even notice these sorts of things?

 

Best three-way match I’ve ever seen, and although that’s not usually saying much, this was truly special, with HHH doing the right thing and everything hitting perfectly on all cylinders. If you can find a fault with this match, you’re nuts. *****

 

If it's the best three-way you've ever seen, compare it to other three-ways and tell us what worked and what didn't. Asking the readership to find flaws is lazy writing. If everything hit perfectly on all cylinders, define everything.

 

One would also think he'd have more than two sentences to say about what he thinks is the best triple threat ever.