Election Day

[pappajacks 0]

The other problem, of course, is that the reason in large part that their culture survives is due to protection by Canada. If they split, I don't see how they could deal with the big bad English United States on their own, when they are surrounded by the new entirely English speaking Canada as well.

 

Yes, that's something the sovereigntists prefer to ignore. They're convinced Quebec being part of Canada is a detriment to Quebecois culture.

Well, an independant Quebec will have its own CRTC and other government bodies. It can protect its culture by forcing radio stations, television stations and magazines to have a limited amount of english content, just like the CRTC is currently doing against american content.

[pappajacks 0]

My big problem is that most of Quebec (geographically) don't want to go. I'm talking about the native populations in the north who have said quite clearly that they want to stay in Canada, and the western areas with a large English population (Gatineau and the like). However, the area of Quebec that wants to seperate have virtually nothing with which to support themselves and won't willingly let the north stay in Canada. Not only is it hypocritical, but it would create a huge mess in the new independent Quebec. Most seperatists haven't thought this thing out clearly. The other problem, of course, is that the reason in large part that their culture survives is due to protection by Canada. If they split, I don't see how they could deal with the big bad English United States on their own, when they are surrounded by the new entirely English speaking Canada as well.

The partition issue has already been settled by the courts 5 years ago. Quebec will leave the confederation with the same territory as it entered the confederation.

 

For simplicity purposes, Canada represents a family of 13 members (10 provinces + 3 territories). If a member chooses to leave the family, you cannot cut his arms and legs (partition of the Quebec territory).

[Highland 0]

The other problem, of course, is that the reason in large part that their culture survives is due to protection by Canada. If they split, I don't see how they could deal with the big bad English United States on their own, when they are surrounded by the new entirely English speaking Canada as well.

 

Yes, that's something the sovereigntists prefer to ignore. They're convinced Quebec being part of Canada is a detriment to Quebecois culture.

Well, an independant Quebec will have its own CRTC and other government bodies. It can protect its culture by forcing radio stations, television stations and magazines to have a limited amount of english content, just like the CRTC is currently doing against american content.

Quebec already limits the amout of English they permit on signs. It's yet another example of how Quebec is treated differently than the rest of the country. If any other province passed a law prohibiting or limiting the use of French in public or had English language police we would never hear the end of the uproar this would cause.

If Quebec achieves independence it will have to start from square one, it'll have no control over the St. Lawrence Seaway, as that is co-owned by Canada and the US, plus it will have to renegotiate with all of partners that Canada negotiated treaties and agreements with, as they would no longer apply to Quebec.

Edited June 14, 2004 by Naibus

[pappajacks 0]

Quebec already limits the amout of English they permit on signs. It's yet another example of how Quebec is treated differently than the rest of the country. If any other province passed a law prohibiting or limiting the use of French in public or had English language police we would never hear the end of the uproar this would cause.

That's bill 78, a bill passed by the LIBERAL PARTY of Quebec. It was Robert Bourassa who passed the bill that french should be two times bigger than english on commercial signs.

[Highland 0]

Yes, a bill passed to quell the fears of Quebec nationalists and also to remove another argument they would have for separation.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

For simplicity purposes, Canada represents a family of 13 members (10 provinces + 3 territories). If a member chooses to leave the family, you cannot cut his arms and legs (partition of the Quebec territory).

 

It isn't that easy. You would be left with a whole lot of people that don't want to be a part of the new country.

 

BTW, if the voters keep voting 'no', why don't the seperatists just take the hint and give it up?

[CanadianChris 0]

Quebec already limits the amout of English they permit on signs. It's yet another example of how Quebec is treated differently than the rest of the country. If any other province passed a law prohibiting or limiting the use of French in public or had English language police we would never hear the end of the uproar this would cause.

That's what happens when you enact a Charter of Rights and Freedoms with a "notwithstanding" clause. Stupidest thing that ever happened to this country.

[Highland 0]

Quebec already limits the amout of English they permit on signs. It's yet another example of how Quebec is treated differently than the rest of the country. If any other province passed a law prohibiting or limiting the use of French in public or had English language police we would never hear the end of the uproar this would cause.

That's what happens when you enact a Charter of Rights and Freedoms with a "notwithstanding" clause. Stupidest thing that ever happened to this country.

Indeed. The notwithstanding clause makes the entire Charter not worth the paper it is written on.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Ah...Quebec.

 

Remember when the UN found that Quebec was violating Human Rights with their opression of English culture?

 

 

Good times.

[Guest HungryJack]

when was that ???

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

when was that ???

I'm not sure. I could even be wrong but I remember reading something along those lines in Maclean's.

 

It may have been from the early 90's late 80's

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Quebec already limits the amout of English they permit on signs. It's yet another example of how Quebec is treated differently than the rest of the country. If any other province passed a law prohibiting or limiting the use of French in public or had English language police we would never hear the end of the uproar this would cause.

That's what happens when you enact a Charter of Rights and Freedoms with a "notwithstanding" clause. Stupidest thing that ever happened to this country.

I think everyone will agree with that, regardless of political affiliation. The Notwithstanding Clause is terrifying.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Is anybody else watching the French Debate tonight?

[Highland 0]

I'll catch the highlights then watch the English debate.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

From my vantage point, Duceppe was the clear winner here. Martin avoided so many questions that it looked like he was getting ready for the release of Dodgeball, Harper seemed to struggle with the language, and Layton is just nuts.

[pappajacks 0]

It was Duceppe's 5th debate (he had 2 in 97 and 2 in 2000) and it showed. This is his third federal campaign while the 3 other leaders are at their first. Duceppe looked very cool and relaxed, with nothing to lose (he is way ahead in the polls in Quebec). All he had to do was play for the tie and he ended up winning the french debate. Martin was on the defensive and seemed nervous from the get go. He faired much better in the english debate though.

 

Make no mistake about it, Ontario (like it always does) will determine who wins this election.

 

The rest of the country will vote like it has for the past decade. The West will vote for the Conservatives, the Bloc will take Quebec and the Maritimes will be Liberal land.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

He faired much better in the english debate though.

 

Not much. He spent more time telling Layton to shut up than answering questions.

 

Supposedly polls are now saying that Harper won the debate and that Craig Oliver (a noted Liberal) called it a big loss for Martin. Now I didn't see this personally, but I was told by my mother and I trust her, but just keep in mind that this isn't 100% certain. If true, the Liberals are in big trouble.

 

EDIT: Here it is.

 

Instant poll annoints Harper TV debate winner

CTV.ca News Staff

 

As the party leaders tried to convince viewers countrywide that they'd be the best choice for prime minister, a CTV News/Ipsos-Reid poll tracked real-time reaction.

 

Within moments of the leaders leaving the stage of the National Arts Centre in Ottawa, the poll results showed that a clear winner had emerged.

 

Based on a coast-to-coast sample of 2,107 voters who were asked to watch the English-language TV debate and respond to a special Internet survey, Ipsos-Reid reports that 37 per cent picked Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper as the winner.

 

Answering the question "Overall, who in your opinion, won this debate?" only 24 per cent made Liberal Leader Paul Martin their first choice.

 

NDP Leader Jack Layton and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe registered 18 and seven per cent, respectively.

 

When respondents were asked to choose the leader "Who offered the best ideas and policies in the debate," Harper also came out on top.

 

Thirty-five per cent said the Opposition Leader trumped his competition. Layton edged out the prime minister for second place, with 27 per cent support -- one percentage point more than chose Martin.

 

Duceppe's ideas only resonated strongest with 6 per cent of respondents.

 

Although the numbers were slightly different, the ranking was the same when respondents were asked to choose who "thinking of style... offered the best performance in the debate."

 

According to Ipsos-Reid pollster Darrell Bricker, an analysis of the numbers suggests Martin didn't measure up.

 

"He really needed to get his campaign back on track," Bricker told CTV.ca. "And what you can see is that didn't happen."

 

The surprise, Bricker said, was the 16 per cent of respondents who said their opinion of Duceppe had improved as a result of his performance.

 

"He really held Martin's feet to the fire, particularly in the early part of the debate, and was fairly reasonable with the other leaders," Bricker said, explaining the positive Bloc leader's positive momentum.

 

Although Martin was the only leader to register negative momentum in the course of the debate, the numbers don't add up to total defeat for the unelected prime minister.

 

When asked, forgetting for a minute about the federal parties and what they stand for, and forgetting about which party you might be supporting, which of the federal party leaders do you think would make the best Prime Minister of Canada, 38 per cent said Martin.

 

According to Bricker, however, the prime minister shouldn't rest on his laurels.

 

Harper was a close second, with 36 per cent of respondents saying he'd make the best government leader.

 

"As a result of this debate, Canadians are now starting to see him in the same league as the prime minister, which they never did before.

 

"These are the first data in which we've seen Harper close."

 

For all the attention paid to the night's debate, it seems to have stirred little change among voters.

 

On the question, "Did you change you mind about who to vote for because of tonight's debate?" the response was resounding.

 

More than 80 per cent per cent said their choice had not been swayed by the televised event.

 

Results of the Ipsos-Reid instant internet poll are weighted by age, gender and political support. The results are considered accurate within a 2.1 per cent margin of error.

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Highland 0]

Anyone else notice the increasing use of American-style campaign ads in this election?

[Guest Cerebus]

Anyone else notice the increasing use of American-style campaign ads in this election?

As in negative/attack ads?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yep. This election sucks. Everyone is playing the "This is why you shouldn't vote for them" rather than the "This is why you should vote for me" - and you wonder why the youth don't vote. We already know why we shouldn't vote for ANY of the candidates - they're completely out-of-touch with any issue that effects any of us and believe that appearing on Canadian Idol will motivate us to vote for them; so why fucking vote at all when you've got a bunch of dipshits going on about stuff you don't care about?

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Harper just cranked up the sleazo-meter to another level:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/06/18/canad...hy_martin040618

 

OTTAWA - The Conservatives retracted a news release issued Friday with a headline reading: "Paul Martin Supports Child Pornography?" and later changed it to "How Tough is Paul Martin on Child Pornography?"

 

The release, which states "Martin says he's against child pornography, but his voting record proves otherwise," was sent out to media at 15:40 EDT and recalled an hour later.

 

...

 

Another Conservative news release titled "The NDP Caucus Supports Child Pornography?" accuses 11 caucus members of voting against prohibiting the creation or use of child pornography

[Highland 0]

Anyone else notice the increasing use of American-style campaign ads in this election?

As in negative/attack ads?

Yes. Though I know it sounds condescending and pretentious we generally dislike the more personally negative ads that are a part of some campaigns in the US and elsewhere.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Go Green party!

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The latest poll has the Conservatives at 32%, Liberals down two points to 29%, NDP at 16% and Green at 7%.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I'm still feeling the Liberals squeking by for a minority government

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Wow, I have no one to vote for in this election. I never "got" why people didn't got until now. I mean jesus fucking christ, not a single fucking candidate in my riding is from Canada. What is whitey to do???

[Highland 0]

The NDP might turn out ot be the most influencial party coming out of this election if it ends in a minority government. Neither the Liberals or the Conservatives are going to associate themselves with the Bloc, so the NDP might be the ones holding the balance of power by supporting either of the other two national parties in a minority government.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I like the NDP's approach of "we don't have to win it all, but if we win some we're happy as pigs in shit - let's all work together". So if anything bad happens to either of the leading parties, the NDP will just go "Hey, we see there's a problem and we want to help." It's the Next Door Neighbour approach - they'll lend the sugar for the cookies that make up national politics

[treble 0]

I saw something on the news tonight I thought was funny. I think it's in Richmond Hill, there's a candidate running for the Progressive-Canadian party (obviously shortened to 'PC', which is what it says on the ballot, right above where the Conservative is listed), but their signs around town say 'Progressive-Conservative' and are very similar to the Conservative candidate's signs. Apparently the address listed on the website as the office is for some house and no one knows who the candidate is, since she's never been to any of the all-candidate meetings or debates.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Something to consider: unless one party wins a majority, Martin, as the incumbent Prime Minister, will be offered the first chance at forming a government by the Governor General regardless of who ends up with the most seats.