Primetime Impact?

[Guest MikeSC]

Too soon? Have him beat up Killings and, bam, he's a ME-level heel.

 

He's the best heel they have. By a healthy margin. Keeping him in the mid-card to avoid making Jeffy look EVEN WORSE is just sad.

 

Yes, he is an excellent heel. I'm not taking that away from him at all. And why can't you get it into your head that in today's TNA, just as it was in the beginning, the X-Division gets just as much as a push as the heavies.

The X Division, for months, has been nothing. It will NOT put him where he NEEDS to be. Hate to tell you, but Frankie Kazarian wasn't pushed a ME-level talent during his X Division run.

 

That was true EARLY on --- but months ago, Smackdown was a kick-ass show. You need to see the situation for what it IS --- not what it WAS.

A solid feud with AJ and a run with the X belt will do more for Kash than a feud with Killings were neither of them has the belt.

No, it won't. It will keep him in the same mid-card level he's at now. All to protect Jeffy from a guy who is better than him in every conceivable way.

It's not like he's feuding with Erik Watts or some other worthless crap.  He's feuding with the promotion's clear top star (based on tv time, merchanise and booking) and has had just as much time on Impact as Jarrett, Killings and Styles.

He's stuck in MIDCARD feuds. Nothing advances him to the ME level, where he clearly belongs right now.

And in a while, I'm sure we'll see him in the World title mix.  Throwing him in there now wouldn't be smart though, because he can do more for the X title's value, which they are clearly trying to re-establish.

As long as JJ is a heel, he'll NEVER let Kash look like a legit ME'er.

The man has NEVER drawn, Not one ass is put in the seat nor one buy added to PPV because of him. His match w/ Raven did more to damage this company than any individual match this promotion has ever had.

Yes, the finish to Jarrett/Raven did burn out the Nashville crowd...but to say that match itself didn't draw is asinine at best.

Can you prove it did draw?

 

Can you point to a big uptick in buys?

And has been pointed out several times, Jarrett had to go over because putting your title on a uncontracted talent would have been uncomparably stupid.  Then they'd have been susceptable to being held up like WCW did when they took Awesome from ECW. 

Where was Raven going to go?

 

WWE had ZERO interest in him.

 

He didn't have a great desire to be a full-time indy.

The open door policy gave them Chris Sabin. It did them more good than almost any other move they made.

Yes it did, but they could have brought in Sabin under the same policy they have now: tryout dark match leads to contracts. Bringing in random guy of the week will even further add to the problem of people not being able to identify with the wrestlers.

True --- but it gives them a good shot at seeing how connects with the crowd. Dark matches seldom show true connection with an audience.

-=Mike

[TNABaddboi 0]

The X Division, for months, has been nothing. It will NOT put him where he NEEDS to be. Hate to tell you, but Frankie Kazarian wasn't pushed a ME-level talent during his X Division run.

 

That was true EARLY on --- but months ago, Smackdown was a kick-ass show. You need to see the situation for what it IS --- not what it WAS.

 

I do see the situation for what it is now. Was Kazarian main eventing 2 months ago? Did he just main event the first "increased exposure" PPV? Yes. NOW, they are clearly pushing the X division as a big deal. They book ended the first Impact with X matches and then delivered three more, which got more ring time than anything else on the show, in week two. So clearly, the X division is a big deal again, now.

 

  He's stuck in MIDCARD feuds. Nothing advances him to the ME level, where he clearly belongs right now.

 

His feud with Kash is NOT a midcard feud. It will be willing to be that it ME an upcoming PPV and be giving time similar to the Styles/Kazarian match. Besides, even if it wasn't over the X-title, it would still be huge, because anything Styles touches in TNA is a big deal. His feud with Abyss did more to more him up the card than anything he has been involved in since he debuted.

 

Can you prove it did draw?

 

Yes I can. It's widely known that it was the most attended show they had since they moved to the Fairgrounds and was rumored to draw the highest buyrate for any TNA show.

[Guest MikeSC]

The X Division, for months, has been nothing. It will NOT put him where he NEEDS to be. Hate to tell you, but Frankie Kazarian wasn't pushed a ME-level talent during his X Division run.

 

That was true EARLY on --- but months ago, Smackdown was a kick-ass show. You need to see the situation for what it IS --- not what it WAS.

I do see the situation for what it is now. Was Kazarian main eventing 2 months ago? Did he just main event the first "increased exposure" PPV? Yes. NOW, they are clearly pushing the X division as a big deal. It they book ended the first Impact with X matches and then delivered three more, which got more ring time than anything else on the show, in week two. So clearly, the X division is a big deal again, now.

We will have to agree to disagree. I'd hate to come off as condescending.

  He's stuck in MIDCARD feuds. Nothing advances him to the ME level, where he clearly belongs right now.

His feud with Kash is NOT a midcard feud. It will be willing to be that it ME an upcoming PPV and be giving time similar to the Styles/Kazarian match. Besides, even if it wasn't over the X-title, it would still be huge, because anything Styles touches in TNA is a big deal. His feud with Abyss did more to more him up the card than anything he has been involved in since he debuted.

And he's still the guy who can't hold off JJ for any length of time.

 

He's yet to defeat him without Russo's involvement.

Can you prove it did draw?

Yes I can. It's widely known that it was the most attended show they had since they moved to the Fairgrounds and was rumored to draw the highest buyrate for any TNA show.

I requested proof --- not anecdotal evidence.

-=Mike

[TNABaddboi 0]

Meltzer reported attendance for the April 30, 2003 show at 1400. And says they usually have about 800-900. That's a significant increase that can be attributed to Jarrett/Raven. The building even looked more full on the show, which Dames pointed out in his review of it on this site. So clearly, the match was a draw.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I would like to point out that if it wasn't for Raven, I would never have bought TNA PPV's to start with. Secondly, I would like to point out that Jarrett with the belt is more than just an ego stroke, as he is a "recognizable" name. Not saying whether or not that's good, but he is one of the few people on TNA that could give marks a bit of familiarity and a reason to watch.

That being said, he is a bit over the top with his own push, but bitching about it here is gonna do jack shit about it. Clearly they have issues, but so does any wrestling promotion no matter how you look at it. Deal with it.

[Guest MikeSC]

Meltzer reported attendance for the April 30, 2003 show at 1400. And says they usually have about 800-900. That's a significant increase that can be attributed to Jarrett/Raven. The building even looked more full on the show, which Dames pointed out in his review of it on this site. So clearly, the match was a draw.

So be it. He drew once. I will concede that.

-=Mike

[TNABaddboi 0]

I would like to point out that if it wasn't for Raven, I would never have bought TNA PPV's to start with. Secondly, I would like to point out that Jarrett with the belt is more than just an ego stroke, as he is a "recognizable" name. Not saying whether or not that's good, but he is one of the few people on TNA that could give marks a bit of familiarity and a reason to watch.

That being said, he is a bit over the top with his own push, but bitching about it here is gonna do jack shit about it. Clearly they have issues, but so does any wrestling promotion no matter how you look at it. Deal with it.

 

 

Amen, Amen and Amen.

[TNABaddboi 0]

So be it. He drew once. I will concede that.

 

Thank you. I'm not saying Jarrett is paralleling Hogan, Rocky, Austin levels of drawing power. I'm just saying that in a well-booked feud, he can draw interest. While I don't agree with the decision to put the belt back on him so quick, I do understand the logic behind it.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Mike I do have one question for you. What is the best ran wrestling organization in the business today? Since you have sooooo many problems with TNA(granted they do have some problems) then what are you comparing them to???

[Guest MikeSC]

Mike I do have one question for you. What is the best ran wrestling organization in the business today? Since you have sooooo many problems with TNA(granted they do have some problems) then what are you comparing them to???

Right now, the RAW brand of WWE is running quite smoothly. They are providing good shows and outstanding PPV's on a consistent basis.

 

And they're turning profits.

-=Mike

[TNABaddboi 0]

Right now, the RAW brand of WWE is running quite smoothly. They are providing good shows and outstanding PPV's on a consistent basis.

 

And they're turning profits.

 

Yes they are. But if that's your answer to both of his questions, is it really far to compare TNA to WWE at this stage in the game?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Mike I do have one question for you.  What is the best ran wrestling organization in the business today?  Since you have sooooo many problems with TNA(granted they do have some problems) then what are you comparing them to???

Right now, the RAW brand of WWE is running quite smoothly. They are providing good shows and outstanding PPV's on a consistent basis.

 

And they're turning profits.

-=Mike

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

 

You mean the show that barely puts their champion on the show, just had a dud of a PPV and is venturing into the never good pregnancy angle?

 

Give me a fucking break. Raw has been saved by good tag matches and that's it. The booking is terrible and it's a delicate stack of cards right now and once Triple H gets the belt back it'll collapse on itself.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Right now, the RAW brand of WWE is running quite smoothly. They are providing good shows and outstanding PPV's on a consistent basis.

 

And they're turning profits.

-=Mike

See Mike this here proves my point. Why is it that you can look at RAW, a show where the World Champion is booked as third fiddle behind two guys that he generally defeated(not seperately, but he should hold a higher postition than HHH or HBK since he won both 3 ways) and is pushing a comedy act as one of it's main attractions? My arguement here has nothing to do with profits as I have stated time and time again that TNA works in a terrible manner as far as generating a profit. I am simply talking about product, and I really don't count RAW as a product. The WWE consists of two shows, RAW which is a solid show for the most part and SD, which is unwatchable. If you wanna compare WWE and TNA your gonna have to include the SD brand as well. Otherwise you are picking and choosing and your arguements have no meaning. Now with that said, if you are going to be biased......don't expect me to give you one fucking ounce of credibility........

[Guest MikeSC]

Mike I do have one question for you.  What is the best ran wrestling organization in the business today?  Since you have sooooo many problems with TNA(granted they do have some problems) then what are you comparing them to???

Right now, the RAW brand of WWE is running quite smoothly. They are providing good shows and outstanding PPV's on a consistent basis.

 

And they're turning profits.

-=Mike

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

 

You mean the show that barely puts their champion on the show, just had a dud of a PPV and is venturing into the never good pregnancy angle?

 

Give me a fucking break. Raw has been saved by good tag matches and that's it. The booking is terrible and it's a delicate stack of cards right now and once Triple H gets the belt back it'll collapse on itself.

You're calling Bad Blood a "dud"?

 

A TNA MARK is calling BAD BLOOD a dud?

 

BWA HA HA HA HA!

 

Funny stuff.

 

Nothing in TNA's existence TOUCHES Bad Blood. Benoit v Kane and HITC easily own anything TNA has contemplated doing.

 

BTW, HHH is better than Jeffy. He, at least, PUTS PEOPLE OVER.

See Mike this here proves my point. Why is it that you can look at RAW, a show where the World Champion is booked as third fiddle behind two guys that he generally defeated(not seperately, but he should hold a higher postition than HHH or HBK since he won both 3 ways) and is pushing a comedy act as one of it's main attractions?

1) Benoit is not being pushed beneath them. They had to end the HHH v HBK program and HITC, due to the time it takes to set up, will be the last match on the show. Who won the ME on RAW?

 

2) Nick Dinsmore is better than almost anybody in TNA.

My arguement here has nothing to do with profits as I have stated time and time again that TNA works in a terrible manner as far as generating a profit. I am simply talking about product, and I really don't count RAW as a product. The WWE consists of two shows, RAW which is a solid show for the most part and SD, which is unwatchable.

WWE clearly doesn't treat them as equal parts.

 

RAW is better than TNA almost every week (it will be better this week almost definitely --- the ME was incredible).

If you wanna compare WWE and TNA your gonna have to include the SD brand as well.

Nah. If you want to be "fair", you'd have to include ALL NWA territories.

Otherwise you are picking and choosing and your arguements have no meaning. Now with that said, if you are going to be biased......don't expect me to give you one fucking ounce of credibility........

I don't need you to give me fucking credibility.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Oh please. The Super X tournament, and several of the PPVs easily destroy Bad Blood in terms of inring quality. If you actually you know watched TNA you might notice that. Not everything the WWF does is good. And a PPV where only one match breaks *** is a dud.

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh please. The Super X tournament, and several of the PPVs easily destroy Bad Blood in terms of inring quality. If you actually you know watched TNA you might notice that. Not everything the WWF does is good. And a PPV where only one match breaks *** is a dud.

Oh please.

 

Heck, I got the Super X Tourney on my PC right now and I defy you to name a SINGLE TNA PPV that matched Bad Blood.

 

You're a blinded TNA mark. You're hardly in a position to call others biased.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Yeah, I defend TNA alot because it gets totally shit on by trolls who don't watch the show here. You can't even have an honest discussion about TNA as a product without having trolls who never watch going "it'll be dead in 2 weeks" over and over and fucking over again. It gets old after awhile when you enjoy a product and it gets completely shit on for the same things over and over even if the complaint never had a basis in reality.

 

As far as better than Bad Blood:

Super X Tournament

the PPV with XXX/AMW and Fazarian/Sabin

Whichever week had the 6 man X division main event and Stlyes/Lynn vs. Disciples

Most of the X Division stuff from week 4 to week 10 easily beats anything Bad Blood had

 

The Lynn/Styles feud totally crushes the neverending HBK/HHH feud.

[Guest MikeSC]

Yeah, I defend TNA alot because it gets totally shit on by trolls who don't watch the show here.

Because NOBODY who sees it can possibly think it's bad.

You can't even have an honest discussion about TNA as a product without having trolls who never watch going "it'll be dead in 2 weeks" over and over and fucking over again.

Wow, you can't have an honest discussion where one points out the flaws without people crying.

It gets old after awhile when you enjoy a product and it gets completely shit on for the same things over and over even if the complaint never had a basis in reality.

WHICH complaint has no basis in reality?

As far as better than Bad Blood:

Super X Tournament

the PPV with XXX/AMW and Fazarian/Sabin

Whichever week had the 6 man X division main event and Stlyes/Lynn vs. Disciples

Most of the X Division stuff from week 4 to week 10 easily beats anything Bad Blood had

You have a fondness of shitty spotfests.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

There are honest complaints on here about it from Laz and Dynamite and they don't get shit on about it at all. They actually watch the shows on a consistent basis and know what their talking about. You keep bringing the same arguments to the table like the WWF stealing Styles away whenever they feel like despite being shown the opposite more than once. And totally ignore valid points if it doesn't fit your negative light about TNA such as the fact that Panda gets tax breaks for owning TNA. And the fact that you bring up the WWF is laughable. TNA can't even touch the amount of money the WWF has flushed down the tiolet in the last 5 yrs. on stupid projects. TNA could run for another decade and not post the losses that the XFL and WWF NY cost the WWF.

 

And I don't take a thing you say about wrestling seriously because you totally shit all over anything that's not the WWF.

[Guest MikeSC]

There are honest complaints on here about it from Laz and Dynamite and they don't get shit on about it at all.

Goodie for them.

They actually watch the shows on a consistent basis and know what their talking about.

As do I. Sorry, bubbles.

You keep bringing the same arguments to the table like the WWF stealing Styles away whenever they feel like despite being shown the opposite more than once.

And you ignore that the ONLY reason he said no was that the offer wasn't very good. If they made him a good offer, TNA would have problems.

 

WWE doesn't feel Styles is worth it.

And totally ignore valid points if it doesn't fit your negative light about TNA such as the fact that Panda gets tax breaks for owning TNA.

And you ignore that the tax breaks AREN'T PERMANENT. They only last a few years.

And the fact that you bring up the WWF is laughable.  TNA can't even touch the amount of money the WWF has flushed down the tiolet in the last 5 yrs. on stupid projects.  TNA could run for another decade and not post the losses that the XFL and WWF NY cost the WWF.

Hmm, WHICH company turns profits right now?

 

Which company has turned profits regularly for years?

 

Hint: Not TNA.

 

You're REALLY bad at this whole debating thing.

And I don't take a thing you say about wrestling seriously because you totally shit all over anything that's not the WWF.

Nope. I shit on the WWE when they deserve it.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Yeah and which company has been around since the 60s and which is just turning 2. Comparing an established company to one that's barely just been around is a fools game. And how can an established company be run so well when they can barely draw 1000 people to some of their house shows? You want companies run better than the WWF? That's quite easy:

 

Zero-One and NOAH

[Guest MikeSC]

Yeah and which company has been around since the 60s and which is just turning 2.

How old's ROH? They manage to turn profits.

 

Hell, MOST indies turn profits. If they don't --- they die.

Comparing an established company to one that's barely just been around is a fools game.  You want companies run better than the WWF?  That's quite easy:

 

Zero-One and NOAH

Provided one likes puro.

 

Which I don't.

 

So, they're not better to me.

 

You seem to have an inability to grasp the whole concept of opinion.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Yeah and RoH is choking on a total PR nightmare right now that they've totally mishandled. If they don't get it under control they could find surviving the next 6 months difficult.

 

Provided one likes puro.

 

Which I don't.

 

So, they're not better to me.

 

Well good for you. Still doesn't change the fact both promotions are run better than the WWF. Ignorance isn't an excuse.

[Guest Goodear]

I question why this has turned into a 'the shit over here smells better than the shit over there' especially since we're talking about shit. The fact is TNA has a number of major problems with its product that really are not all that hard to fix regardless of what the WWE is doing right or wrong. Moving Styles back to the X division is darn near the most rediculous thing they could do once he won the major title. Playing around with AMW for months only to have them team right back up and win the tag titles again is not that bright. And finally: NEWSFLASH: Having Jeff Jarrett be the major star only works if you use him to make more major stars and to do that, you might have to have him job to someone without a guitar or Vince Russo come into play.

[TNABaddboi 0]

1) Benoit is not being pushed beneath them. They had to end the HHH v HBK program and HITC, due to the time it takes to set up,

 

HiaC doesn't take time to set up at all. They just hang it from the rafters and lower it while a video package plays. The Mankind/Taker HiaC from KotR 98 went on 2nd to last. Austin/Kane ended that show. Should have been the same deal here, IMO. But Benoit's match had no real build up, so they would have had a tough time following up the HiaC. All the build up went to HBK/HHH, which is the point I think Kido was trying to make. And the fact that its relatively clear that as soon as HHH mets Benoit one on one, he's taking the belt back. Post haste.

 

Nah. If you want to be "fair", you'd have to include ALL NWA territories.

 

How is that fair? TNA has no control over how any other NWA territory is run, other than their own. WWE has total control over SD!, and they're still screwing the pooch every Thursday night. Big difference.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

You have a fondness of shitty spotfests.

-=Mike

Judging from your opinion of Bad Blood.....you have a fondness of shitty wrestling.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

You keep bringing the same arguments to the table like the WWF stealing Styles away whenever they feel like despite being shown the opposite more than once.

And you ignore that the ONLY reason he said no was that the offer wasn't very good. If they made him a good offer, TNA would have problems.

 

WWE doesn't feel Styles is worth it.

And you totally ignore the fact that Styles himself said it was because of his personal beliefs.

 

And just because you don't like spotfests does not mean they're shitty. Spotfests can be entertaining, and they can be horrible. It depends on the workers, just like any psychology laden match.

 

And you think HHH puts people over? He's done it just as much as Jeff has, and only because he's going to be filming a movie. I think Jeff looks better when you think about it that way.

[Guest MikeSC]

And you totally ignore the fact that Styles himself said it was because of his personal beliefs.

Which is disproven by his comment that he'd always listen to an offer from them if one was made.

And just because you don't like spotfests does not mean they're shitty. Spotfests can be entertaining, and they can be horrible. It depends on the workers, just like any psychology laden match.

When it's the same thing over and over, it becomes shit.

 

The first X Cup was great. The later ones weren't.

 

Heck, the first 3 TLC matches in the WWF were good. The last one was horrible.

And you think HHH puts people over? He's done it just as much as Jeff has, and only because he's going to be filming a movie. I think Jeff looks better when you think about it that way.

Name one person JJ put over.

 

HHH put over Benjamin.

Put over Benoit CLEAN.

 

And that was just this year alone.

 

Who has JJ helped? Harris (who is doing bang-up work back in the same tag team he was in before his mini-program with JJ)?

You have a fondness of shitty spotfests.

        -=Mike

Judging from your opinion of Bad Blood.....you have a fondness of shitty wrestling.

Nah. Good wrestling --- not shitty, run-of-the-mill spotfests.

-=Mike

...I like a little selling and psychology with my wrestling. But that's just me.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Which is disproven by his comment that he'd always listen to an offer from them if one was made.

 

Source please.

 

HHH put over Benjamin.

Put over Benoit CLEAN.

 

Yeah and it's done wonders for Benjamin's career hasn't it? And everyone knows Triple H will be getting the title right back from Benoit. So please trash such a useless argument.

 

Nah. Good wrestling --- not shitty, run-of-the-mill spotfests.

-=Mike

...I like a little selling and psychology with my wrestling. But that's just me.

 

If that's good wrestling you really need to get some mental help. You would be hard pressed to find any psychology on that show outside of Benoit/Kane. And before you even try and bring up HBK/HHH they didn't use the gimmick at all to effect their match.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I don't really have an opinion on the WWE/TNA stuff in this thread...but I do have to say that the HIAC really really irratated me.

 

1. What was the purpose of having it in the Cell if they were just going to wrestle the SummerSlam 02 match again with a more boring finish? At least HBK sold his back on the kip-up for the first time ever though.

 

2. With JR continually giving us time of match updates...the whole thing really came off like "look how long we can go in the Cell we aren't even using!".

 

3. It is fitting that Benoit wasn't main eventing with the title match though...since the shows leading up to the event have gone out of there way to put over that HHH is still the star of the show. Hell...even Jarrett let Styles main event with his title.