Explain This To Me

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

So I was reading the show feedback on the Observer site and a majority of people seem to hold the crowd more at fault for the match falling flat than anything else. This is totally beyond me. It's not MY RESPONSIBILITY to cheer or boo whoever at a show. It's the workers job to draw me into the event and invoke an emotional response on some level. So how is it the crowd's fault if the workers fail to draw them in?

[DerangedHermit 0]

So I was reading the show feedback on the Observer site and a majority of people seem to hold the crowd more at fault for the match falling flat than anything else. This is totally beyond me. It's not MY RESPONSIBILITY to cheer or boo whoever at a show. It's the workers job to draw me into the event and invoke an emotional response on some level. So how is it the crowd's fault if the workers fail to draw them in?

There are some crowds that just shit on anything that's given to them - Nassau Coliseum comes to mind.

[redbaron29 0]

Agreed Mad Dog......From an earlier disscusion you and I were apart of

 

 

 

I forgot to mention it, but, WORST. CROWD. EVER. Why doesn't WWE learn not to hold shows in Columbus?

 

Yeah maybe the crowd wasn't the best ever BUT what crowd has been as of late. Yeah if you pay to go to MSG you would probably go hardcore, and yes I agree, the audience down here doesn't compare to that "Great STATE up north" called Canada eh?

The point of the show is to entertain you. It is the job of the Employees of the WWE to invoke all the emotions that get those reactions. They are suppose to make me WANT to boo them, WANT to cheer them, want me to call them every name in the book.

As a "Smark" I understand what they are doing in that ring, and I respect every one of them performers for that. However I am willing to let myself suspend reality and journey into Kayfabe, as if i was reading a novel or watching a movie.

As a member of the audience, I did not feel INCLINED to react to the product. As somebody who payed $55 dollars to sit in that arena, I am not REQUIRED to scream constantly at the top of my lungs to BETTER the WWE product for those of you at home. If you feel that way then I will gladly let YOU purchase my ticket to the next WWE televised event in my area, and I will gladly work my best to make your WWE home veiwing experience the best it can be. Or perhaps you can write to Mr. Vince McMahon and have him insert a pre-canned crowd into your pay-per-view ala Laugh Track's on sitcoms.

Last night I did cheer as I outlined in my above post. Yes you are right the crowd was lazy which I outlined in my previous post. There where times I was ashamed that the crowd couldnt have put as maybe I felt they should have. But then I realize, it isn't there job now is it.

We may not have been the greatest crowd I will conciede. We probably don't even make top 50 crowds of all time. Don't blame the fans, or the venue or anybody else. Put the blame where the blame falls. The WWE...

[cawthon777 0]

It was a harsh crowd that didn't give the wrestlers an inch. Different crowds give different reactions. What you get in Toronto might not be what you get at MSG. What you get in Ohio is apparently snoring. It's not the wrestlers' fault if they go out there and bust their ass to put on a good match and get no reaction.

 

Okay, let me put it to you like this. You go to a taping and there is a dark match with two guys you've never heard of. They bust their ass to put on a good show but the crowd shits on them because they've never been on TV. Is that the fault of the wrestlers too?

[Guest Trivia247]

Im not getting which match your referring to.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

To a degree, unknowns are a little different. But in cases like HBK/HHH I put almost all of the blame on them. They totally worked against the crowd according to most people in attendance.

[Guest Suicide King]

I have seen PPVs at Nationwide Arena before, and let me let you guys in on a little secret. The acoustics of that place are freaking horrible. The entire place could be screaming their heads off, and frequently were in fact, but inevitably when I got home you couldn't even hear a squeak on the tape.

 

Ohio fans are in fact a pretty damned hot crew overall. Southern Ohio in particular. We've got HWA and OVW, and ROH visits with some regularity now. All of them give glowing praise about us.

 

So be nice kids.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I wouldn't defend Columbus fans to be honest. The WWF has killed the Columbus crowds with terrible shows for the last 4 years. I don't blame people for not going and sitting on their hands because the shows are always lackluster here.

[Repo Man jr 0]

Well they were hot for Eugene/Coach. And Orton was getting "Randy" "Legend Killer" and "Legend Killer sucks" chants. Maybe HHH/HBK should watch those matches to learn how to work a crowd (joke)

[redbaron29 0]

Randy actually worked the crowd in what was probably the best promo to date. And I know for a fact the crowd WAS hot for the entire match no matter how it came off on PPV. My entire section from the bottom seats all the way up to the balcony was screaming our heads off for the entire match. The reason was Orton invoked us to do so....as well as an overall great match with fluent good wrestling. Orton and Shelton both played there role perfect. Orton was pretty much over with the people in that arena and it showed with all the signs that supported him, not to mention the orton chant before the show even started. Orton did what any GREAT heel would do. Turned a "heel" friendly crowd ( I noticed the crowd seemed to like the heels more) against him. After he one the match Orton and Shelton got a standing Ovation for putting on a hell of a match from start to finish.Same with Euegene Coach. They entertained the crowd. Which unfortunately is more I could say about half the other people on the card.

 

 

....and if you had to sit with that clique-love in that they called a hell in the cell for 45 fucking minutes at home, imagine what we went through sitting in the corwd.

[Kaertos 0]

I can only speak for the shows I've been to recently, but the crowds in Ohio have been super-hot, even for a house show back in March or so. Hell, HWA was drawing 100 - 150 people a show with pretty terrible advertising right before they lost their Developmental Contract.

 

The crowd in Dayton last night was incredibly hot most of the night. In fact, they blew the roof off the joint when Rhyno came out for a dark match.

 

The only downer on the night were the rude freakin' security at the Nutter Center. Yelling at my friends and I to "keep moving" in the parking lot when I stopped to get a rock out of my shoe was just wrong. eh...

[Art Sandusky 0]

The match fucking blew, moreso since they pretty much promised a catalcysmic end to the feud and I hate it the more they try to make it sound classic. The crowd gets zero blame, and I would have viciously booed the final sequence, then screamed "END THIS" just to let them know it wasn't heat for HHH.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

The crowd, transfered to TV, seemd dead for almost everything. Most of the stuff everyone does on RAW that usually gets cheers got nothing but maybe a small spark of cheers, and the heels were being cheered more then the faces.

 

The last match I won't disagree though. By the 25:00 mark, I was looking at the clock going "end this". By the 35:00 mark I was going "OK, I hate HBK again", and by the 45:00 mark I was a sleep because the match was horrible. I had to watch on tape the last 10 or so minutes.

[redbaron29 0]

....and the heels were being cheered more then the faces.

Your right about that.....it was a heel friendly crowd. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

 

 

The last match I won't disagree though. By the 25:00 mark, I was looking at the clock going "end this". By the 35:00 mark I was going "OK, I hate HBK again", and by the 45:00 mark I was a sleep because the match was horrible. I had to watch on tape the last 10 or so minutes

 

Again your right...Now for the record I have no love loss for either HHH or HBK...as a member of the crowd at about 30:00 mark I found myself doing something I NEVER thought I would do.... I was chearing for HHH. By the 40:00 mark I was praying for the cage to collapse in on itself (partially for there lack of actually using the fuckin thing) instantly crippling both participants.

 

I still stand by the statement it is not the crowds fault your PPV blew.

[Kaertos 0]

OK, was there an alternate PPV that you guys saw that I didn't? Because I am firm in the opinion that the Hell in a Cell match rocked. I can't understand why people would dislike it. Maybe because they stayed in the cage? I remember the Undertaker / Brock HiaC that everyone (but me & about three other people) hated never left the cage.

[redbaron29 0]

Because I am firm in the opinion that the Hell in a Cell match rocked.  I can't understand why people would dislike it.  Maybe because they stayed in the cage? 

No it wasn't a good hell in the cell match. The stale at the beginning was way to fucking long. There wasn't enough cohesive spots drawn together to make it a 45 fuckin minute match. They didnt even ATTEMPT to use the cage in a fashion that would bring a new demension to the match. I'm not saying anyone had to escape the cage or go off the cage like Foley but at least use it in some manner minus rubbing your opponents head into it. I'm not even saying the match was bad....all I'm saying is there is no reason it should have been a Hell in a Cell. All the high spots involed chairs, stairs, and ladders. I honestly think the crowd would have been hot had it not been a HITC.

 

 

I mean come on. Lets put aside this specific match for the time being. Gimmick matches are suppose to give fans a reason to stay attentive while furthering the story. If you see the same two people battle each and every month you need some insentive on why to stay involved. Hence the Gimmick match is born.

 

So when you hear that a gimmck match whats the first thing you do. I know that I think back to all the great matches that involved that gimmick. When I hear Iron-man match I think back to Bret-Shawn, when I hear TLC I think of the great three way tag match with Dudley's/Hardyz/E&C. Then you look at who was announced and wonder how they will compair to those great mathes.

 

Hell in a Cell. Yeah it's true, I think of Mick/Taker 98 King of the Ring. Did I ever expect HHH/HBK or ANYONE else compair to that. Nope. Then I think of Shawn/Taker. Decent match. Shows that Shawn in his prime could pull a hell of a match. I'm not saying you HAVE to have insane bumps to make a good cell match. Just make it worth billing it as a hell in the cell.

 

What they SHOULD have done was make it a Ladder Match. You could of had the SAME exact high spots that you had in that match. FUCK you could of had the SAME exact match down to the finish. It would have made perfect sense.

 

From a story line perspective it would fit cuz, if you recall the only way shawn would have the match was if it was HIS WAY. Well if the WWE professes Shawn to be the innovator of the ladder match, why not make that his match specialty. He could demand it be a ladder match.

 

Now lets take the exact match that happened. Minus the cage. It would have been a different gimmick on a different level. If they had the exact match on the level of a ladder match minus 20 minutes, I submit to you the entire crowd would have been into the match had the cell not been used in this instance. Everyone around me was screaming for somebody to use the fucking cell. The could have still sold everything as they did including the final minute and a half of them both selling the fact that they where DEAD.

 

The entire match was mishandled for some reason. Which is why the crowd was disapointed.

[The Czech Republic 0]

This thread doesn't have any Russians in it.

[iggymcfly 0]

I can tell you why a ladder match wouldn't have worked. Because there was no title on the line. What are they just gonna climb the ladder and get a certificate that says "Congratulations, you are the winner of the greatest feud in WWE history!"?

 

Besides, when the whole point of the match is to brutalize someone you hate, climbing a ladder seems pretty counterproductive. Not to mention that they already had a ladder match as just one of three falls in a match where the feud still did not end. They needed something definitive to close the feud out.

 

Now if they didn't use the cell properly, fine. That's something they should have changed to improve the match. However, they can't just end a two year feud with a ladder match. It just wouldn't make sense.