Has there ever been a 5 star match?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

A ***** HIAC is HBK/Taker. Where the brutality is unbelievable and the action keeps a good pace throughout.

 

Foley/Taker is spot, break, spot, break, spot, break. There's no building and after the first 2 big spots not a whole lot happens. And like I said those 2 spots have lost all impact because the WWF has played them to the point that they've become cliched. 2 bumps do not a match make. Also let's not forget that Taker totally blades on camera robbing this of ever being a ***** affair.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Well let's see....

 

The first bump ruled.

 

The second one was an accident that was executed with the WORST CHOKESLAM EVER!

 

The rest of the match is crap.

 

A Crap match w/ 1 high spot and a "Oh Shit, we almost had a lawsuit on our hands" spot don't make *****.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Magnum T.A. vs. Tully Blanchard - "I Quit" Steel Cage - Starrcade 85

Rock vs. Austin - Wrestlemania X-7

Flair vs. Steamboat - 2/3 falls - Clash of the Champions 6

 

God no! I certaintly would not add these. Taue vs. Kawada from 91 totally kills Magnum vs. Tully in the "I hate your fucking guts" brawl department and that isn't even a top 10 match from either guy.

 

I can think of several better 2/3 falls matches than Flair/Steamboat. From the 80s, it isn't in the same league as Santo/Casas who do twice as much in not even a third of the time. As far as the U.S goes, London/Danielson from ROH blows the Clash match away. Better selling, more complex wrestling, faster paced, more "learned" psychology...etc.

 

Rock vs. Austin is fantastic but Austin/Hart is probably the best WWF match. Both are around **** maybe higher but on the world wide scale...they don't measure up.

 

 

Aside from these I'd add Misawa vs. Kobashi 1/20/97 and would maybe put Misawa vs. Jumbo 6/8/90 and Jumbo vs. Funk 6/11/77 as being strong outside candidates.

 

I have all three of them at ****3/4. If I had to give any ***** it would be Jumbo/Funk but as great as it is, it's hard for to it compete against the more advanced and deeper 6/3/94.

[Guest Choken One]

and Joe/Punk easily blows away London/Danielson.

[Guest Real F'n Show]

5 Star Matches (Completely My Opinion)

 

WWF/WWE:

Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage- WM3

Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair- WM8

Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart- WM10

Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart- Summerslam 94

Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin- Survivor Series 96

Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin- WM13

 

NWA/WCW:

Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA- I Quit Cage Match

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat- Clash VI

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat- WrestleWar 89

Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio- Havoc 97

 

ECW:

None

 

Japan:

Haven't seen much puro to be honest, from what I've seen:

Misawa vs. Kawada- 6/3/94

Misawa and Kobashi vs. Kawada and Taue- 6/9/95

 

Mexico:

Eddy/Barr vs. Octagon/El Hijo Del Santo- When World's Collide

 

Indy:

None, although Dragon/London 2/3 falls is ****1/2 and I haven't seen Punk/Joe yet.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Hey Coffin, I'm curious as to what you rate Midnight Express vs. the Southern Boys from 90.

[Guest Choken One]

I still feel Windham/Flair was better then the Clash Match.

 

as much as I love Flair/Savage, I think you over rated it.

 

But it was the one rare match where a manager's constant interference made the match even better...without it...it's **** but with it...it's ****1/2.

[Guest Choken One]

Hey Coffin, I'm curious as to what you rate Midnight Express vs. the Southern Boys from 90.

I'm not Coffin but This match is the one supposed ****+ North American Match I haven't seen yet and that annoys me.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Hey Coffin, I'm curious as to what you rate Midnight Express vs. the Southern Boys from 90.

Hard to say at the moment as I still need to see the Midnight Express vs. Fantastics matches to get a more accurate rating. Not to mention I'm in a transitional stage with my U.S. ratings and the whole system is in chaos.

 

As of now, I believe I have it at the ***3/4-**** range. Compared to other U.S. tag matches that I've seen, it's in the same range as the best of em.

 

If I had to rank it, the only two U.S. tag matches that I would probably put over it are Windham/Rhodes vs. Austin/Zybsko and Worlds Collide. I have them at the **** range as well. Can't in good conscious go higher since that would be treading on the turf of obviously superior matches.

 

Really loved the match though. Looking back, it's really great to see a tag match where teams utilize strategy, have to set their own tempo..etc. The whole match has this bizzare surreal comedy aura making it a real blast to watch.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I've only ever seen Midnight Express/Fantastics from Clash I but it was very good as far as a tag brawl goes. Damned finish really hurt the match though. The Anderson/Blanchard vs. Luger/Windham from that show is also solid with mega heat from the crowd.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage- WM3

 

No. It's too short and doesn't stand the test of time.

[Guest MikeSC]

I've only ever seen Midnight Express/Fantastics from Clash I but it was very good as far as a tag brawl goes. Damned finish really hurt the match though. The Anderson/Blanchard vs. Luger/Windham from that show is also solid with mega heat from the crowd.

I'd give some of the Pillman & Zenk v Midnight Express matches 5 stars. Horribly underrated tag gems.

-=Mike

[Guest Askewniverse]

and Joe/Punk easily blows away London/Danielson.

I thought you said you haven't seen Danielson vs. London yet. If that's the case, how can you objectively say that CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe was better than Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London?

 

If I'm wrong and you have seen Danielson-London, how would you rate it compared to Punk-Joe?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

MX Vs. Zenk & Pillman is just unbelievable. The Midnights just win because they can and pull out every stop possible. Awesome, awesome stuff and wish I had a copy on hand.

[Ace309 0]

Why must we have this thread every month? It always turns into the Puro fans always pick the matches from Japan and think anything ever done in the states sucks, while the non-Puro fans take cheap shots.

Yeah, everyone's been real fucking unreasonable here. This thread's a disgrace or something.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

No, everytime this comes up, you have the Puro fans who shit all over North American matches, while the NA fans will question their decision. Repeat ad nauseum.

 

IIRC, one thread had someone rate Bret/Owen from WM X like ** and listed probably 200 Puro matches that were *****. Imagine the backlash to that.

[Guest Ray]

No, everytime this comes up, you have the Puro fans who shit all over North American matches, while the NA fans will question their decision. Repeat ad nauseum.

Surely you don't want us (puro fans) to ignore the fact that we've seen wrestling that's quite easily superior to anything done in North America...?

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

No, but there should be different topics for NA and Puro. I know a lot of Puro stuff smokes NA, but it's two completely different styles.

[Guest Ray]

No, but there should be different topics for NA and Puro. I know a lot of Puro stuff smokes NA, but it's two completely different styles.

How are the styles so different? Benoit wrestling Eddie in WCW doesn't look too much different from Benoit wrestling Eddie in Japan.

 

There's more than one style of Japanese (and US)wrestling anyway.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

*Benoit wrestling Eddie in WCW doesn't look too much different from Benoit wrestling Eddie in Japan.*

 

Hahaha.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Judging WWE or TNA, and any half assed Indy promotion, it'll generally be slow wrestling, with a very good/great match now and then, and occasionally a spot-fest that sucks. RoH is probably the only exception, but of course, that promotion is dead almost with the newest RF situation.

 

I can probably guess most Puro shows featue either fast, Jr. HW action, or strong style shooting (not all out shooting, but not a protective form of fight). (I haven't watched a Puro match past 1996, so I really wouldn't knoe about the current situation)

 

Benoit/Eddie is an unfair comparison since they have wrestled world wide befor anyone knew who they were in WCW. Comparing someone like Edge or Randy Orton to whoever will show how dominant Puro is when it comes to talent.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Oh not the myth about wrestling in Japan being a vastly different style from wrestling in U.S. again.

 

From the Man himself(Misawa):

 

Misawa interview

 

"How does wrestling in Japan differ from wrestling in the United States and other countries?

 

I do not see a huge gap or difference. Basic foundation of Pro-Wrestling is originated from USA."

 

 

Anyway, it's all pro style with slight variations. Individual promotions in Japan have just as many if not more differences between each other than they do with U.S. promotions.

 

If the style was so different than North American wrestlers like Flair, Destroyer, Beniot, Eddy, Race, Funks, Dr. Death, Hansen, Vader, Gordy, the Funks, Steiner Brothers, Road Warriors, Bossman..etc. wouldn't have had successfully mingled with the natives.

 

Hell, Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Can Am Connection is a fucking Southern Style Tag.

 

 

More interesting facts:

 

Jumbo was trained by the Funks.

 

Hogan, Choysu and Keji Mutoh were all trained by the same guy.

 

Kawada paid his dues in North America.

 

Kobashi trained under the Road Warriors for a period.

....etc.

 

And if were talking North America here, than the differences between Lucha and the WWF are far greater than the differences between WWF and wrestling in Japan.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Hogan, Choysu and Keji Mutoh were all trained by the same guy.

 

HIro Matsuda, right? You can add to that list about 50 huge names from Japan and the US.

 

Surely you don't want us (puro fans) to ignore the fact that we've seen wrestling that's quite easily superior to anything done in North America...?

 

No, we want you to understand that that is your opinion. For the most part, Puro bores me. "Superior" in wrestling is all based on the personal tastes of the viewer.

[BHK 0]

I've only ever seen one Puro match(Benoit/Sasuke J-cup 94 finals) and I enjoyed it.

 

Now, I'm not sure if this is a stupid question, but shouldn't most smarks flock to Puro because it has what they want? Namely, psychology, better workrate, etc. ?

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Now, I'm not sure if this is a stupid question, but shouldn't most smarks flock to Puro because it has what they want? Namely, psychology, better workrate, etc. ?

You would think so, but I guess people don't think that way. Honestly, I find myself to be of a different breed. I am someone that enjoys puro more than pretty much everything, but I won't say bad things constantly about North American stuff either. Coffin, I wasn't saying to add those additions to your list. They are simply other NA matches that I enjoy. I don't wanna argue star ratings as that's a losing effort on both parts and I'll justify it by saying simply that it's my opinion. If someone does say the the Puro stuff is superior though, I feel that they are right on(mostly) with making a statement like that. Thus, I actually am quite entertained by both Puro and NA stuff though.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I wouldn't really say RoH breaks the mould of North American wrestling either. Nothing I've seen from them yet has made me agree with the people who laud it regularly.

[Guest Real F'n Show]

I've only ever seen Midnight Express/Fantastics from Clash I but it was very good as far as a tag brawl goes.  Damned finish really hurt the match though.  The Anderson/Blanchard vs. Luger/Windham from that show is also solid with mega heat from the crowd.

I'd give some of the Pillman & Zenk v Midnight Express matches 5 stars. Horribly underrated tag gems.

-=Mike

What shows are these on, I need to check them out.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Now, I'm not sure if this is a stupid question, but shouldn't most smarks flock to Puro because it has what they want? Namely, psychology, better workrate, etc. ?

No, puro is just wrestling that happens to take place in another country, that's it. There's bad workers, great workers, bad promotions, good promotions..etc. All the word puroresu is is a Japanese mispronounciation of Pro Wrestling.

 

As far as the whole, i like puro, i like north america nonsense. I like great wrestling, regardless of which side of the world it happens on. Why that matters to some people, is a bit of mystery to me. Maybe it's the language barrier? I don't know.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

As far as the whole, i like puro, i like north america nonsense. I like great wrestling, regardless of which side of the world it happens on. Why that matters to some people, is a bit of mystery to me. Maybe it's the language barrier? I don't know.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with that......

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Dead on. that's always been my hang-up with Puro.