TNA News from the 6/28 Observer

[Magus 0]

If the reports are true, it's Jarrett who's been pushing this feud between him and Russo. Russo apparently wants to be off camera.

that proves how out-of-touch Jeff is, and the bottom line in TNA comes down to what HE wants, not what actually gets over or makes money.

 

but when Russo's not fueding with Jeff, is he any better? does he ever actually get anyone over or make the show more interesting? Vince is just as guilty of hogging the spotlight as Jeff has ever been, and i don't expect that he's changed his ways simply because he up and found Jesus. his booking is redundant and his on screen character is boring. therefore, he's useless and shouldn't be involved with either the creative or on-air product. he's a has-been who has friends in high places, and nothing more. no better than Mantell.

 

the sooner that TNA lets go of these guys the better. they desperately need to put someone in creative who is actually creative and who will try to get wrestlers over who aren't named Jeff Jarrett. not only that, but according to Russo himself, the booking is being done week by week, so TNA obviously has no clear direction where they're going or how they'll get there. good booking that is not.

[Guest Goodear]

The thing of it is, TNA isn't even on a WCW plain at this point and simply does not have the names to draw casual interest against a WWE program. I don't see a whole lot of people staying with Team Canada when Orton and Jericho are on the other station and those two aren't even the WWE main eventers. So if I'm TNA and I really want to grab a hold of 'wrestling night' I would just try to stick my show on at 8pm and make a play for a lead-in audience who arer already home by then and just waisting time waiting for wrestling. TNA should use WWE like a bunch of leeches at this point and actually turning a profit. The chances of them actually 'taking on' WWE and winning? None.

[Guest MikeSC]

The thing of it is, TNA isn't even on a WCW plain at this point and simply does not have the names to draw casual interest against a WWE program. I don't see a whole lot of people staying with Team Canada when Orton and Jericho are on the other station and those two aren't even the WWE main eventers. So if I'm TNA and I really want to grab a hold of 'wrestling night' I would just try to stick my show on at 8pm and make a play for a lead-in audience who arer already home by then and just waisting time waiting for wrestling. TNA should use WWE like a bunch of leeches at this point and actually turning a profit. The chances of them actually 'taking on' WWE and winning? None.

Until they get SOME traction with an audience, a prime time slot will be a disaster.

 

The XFL wouldn't have been as bad a fiasco as it was if it didn't suck so hard on prime time.

-=Mike

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Don't you realize that two of the 3 people who make up the booking committee (JJ and Russo) helped run WCW into the ground?

Mike, your being foolish if you think that JJ or Russo helped "run WCW into the ground". They were in enough financial trouble before they were even prominent players in WCW(at least in JJ's perspective, from the time he was the WCW Champion...not his other midcard WCW run), and the company was going to fold regardless of them being there or not.

[Guest MikeSC]

Don't you realize that two of the 3 people who make up the booking committee (JJ and Russo) helped run WCW into the ground?

Mike, your being foolish if you think that JJ or Russo helped "run WCW into the ground". They were in enough financial trouble before they were even prominent players in WCW(at least in JJ's perspective, from the time he was the WCW Champion...not his other midcard WCW run), and the company was going to fold regardless of them being there or not.

Russo, unquestionably, ACCELERATED the process. And JJ has STILL never proven that he's a draw --- and TNA has STILL yet to gain any traction with casual fans at all.

-=Mike

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Russo, unquestionably, ACCELERATED the process. And JJ has STILL never proven that he's a draw --- and TNA has STILL yet to gain any traction with casual fans at all.

                -=Mike

Alright...first....HOW did Russo accelerate any process of this happening? Do you know the exact funds that Turner/Time Warner was going to throw away on trying to revive the company? No. Second.....So what JJ isn't a draw that's besides the point. You don't win the championship....it's given to you. Also, in case you were wondering there were very little that was a draw for WCW. The nWo was a draw for them....to some degree Goldberg was as well, but besides those......very little in WCW drew ANY money. So they were doomed from the time they decided to run the nWo angle 10 times it's course and the WWF gained the upper hand again. Also Bobby Heenan gives a great idea of who should be at fault in his shoot interview. He said that basically the person that came up with the bad ideas(Russo we'll use as an example) isn't at fault, the person that approved them(in this case it would be Bishoff or Dr. Harvey Shiller)would be the person to put the blame on......so there you go.

[Guest Goodear]

Russo is basically one of the worst bookers time has ever seen without the guiding hand of Vince McMahon to keep him from going completely crazy. Now, you can say he should have been supervised better in WCW, but it still doesn't excuse the complete and total inanity of the situation where he promoted such characters as The Dog and the Tank Abbot vs. Big Al epic. Sure he should have had someone going, 'Jesus, thats fucking dumb'... but christ, he did come up with some really dumb stuff in the first place.

 

The reason Jarrett not being a draw is an issue is because thats the general reason given why he still is the Champion despite being a rather average performer and a polarizing negative figure to the fan base. 'Because fans know him and he can give the rub to newer guys' doesn't work when the guy never gives that rub and never helps make those new guys stars in their own right.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Russo is basically one of the worst bookers time has ever seen without the guiding hand of Vince McMahon to keep him from going completely crazy. Now, you can say he should have been supervised better in WCW, but it still doesn't excuse the complete and total inanity of the situation where he promoted such characters as The Dog and the Tank Abbot vs. Big Al epic. Sure he should have had someone going, 'Jesus, thats fucking dumb'... but christ, he did come up with some really dumb stuff in the first place.

 

Now these points I am NOT arguing. Russo HAS made some of the dumbest decisions ever, but the people in charge are the ones to blame......they let him do it.

 

The reason Jarrett not being a draw is an issue is because thats the general reason given why he still is the Champion despite being a rather average performer and a polarizing negative figure to the fan base. 'Because fans know him and he can give the rub to newer guys' doesn't work when the guy never gives that rub and never helps make those new guys stars in their own right.

 

I agree with those statements, yet he was being questioned as being a draw in WCW, where he didn't have as much say in weather he jobs or puts people over......

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

so nice.....it posted twice.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I myself wonder if WCW was sold because of the low ratings and the bad quality product. The man who AOL-TW put in charge of Turner was going to take WCW off the air regardless of whether or not they made money. I know they were up for sale, but they put the Braves up for sale, and they're successful to a certain degree. The fact that they were for sale had as much to do with the booking as it didn't, IMHO.

[Guest MikeSC]

Alright...first....HOW did Russo accelerate any process of this happening?

DK, attendance PLUMMETED under Russo. PPV buyrates bottomed out under Russo.

 

They lost about $20M in 1999. They lost over $60M in 2000 --- and Russo ran a nice chunk of 2000.

Do you know the exact funds that Turner/Time Warner was going to throw away on trying to revive the company?  No.  Second.....So what JJ isn't a draw that's besides the point.  You don't win the championship....it's given to you.  Also, in case you were wondering there were very little that was a draw for WCW.

No argument at all --- which is why I laugh when people say the WWF botched the Invasion so badly. WCW couldn't draw flies. It's hard to build a long-term Invasion around a company with virtually NOBODY the fans had shown any desire to see.

The nWo was a draw for them....to some degree Goldberg was as well, but besides those......very little in WCW drew ANY money.

I'm now going to throw out a racidal theory:

 

The nWo AND Goldberg are why WCW died.

 

nWo ruined the faces. Goldberg ruined the heels. Thus, they had NOBODY to challenge EITHER group --- and as we saw with A LOT of Austin's programs later in his career, that is a recipe for disaster.

So they were doomed from the time they decided to run the nWo angle 10 times it's course and the WWF gained the upper hand again.  Also Bobby Heenan gives a great idea of who should be at fault in his shoot interview.  He said that basically the person that came up with the bad ideas(Russo we'll use as an example) isn't at fault, the person that approved them(in this case it would be Bishoff or Dr. Harvey Shiller)would be the person to put the blame on......so there you go.

And we have a situation where the same inept person is STILL tossing crap on the wall and the person who would veto it (Jarrett) is proving himself to be, quite possibly, less competent than Schiller (see the JJ/Russo program).

Now these points I am NOT arguing. Russo HAS made some of the dumbest decisions ever, but the people in charge are the ones to blame......they let him do it.

And I'm not wasting the energy defending WCW's management, as they had their heads shoved firmly in their collective anuses.

 

BUT, has Jarrett shown a good eye for what makes consistently good programming in TNA? You can blame ALL angles on him, since he is, technically, he head booker. The never-ending Abyss/Goldilocks/Watts program is his. JJ/Russo is his.

-=Mike

[TNABaddboi 0]

Mike, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but by the same token, does Jarrett get credit for the storylines that have worked, such as his feud with Raven, Styles/Lynn and AMW/XXX feud? IMHO, if you're going to blame him for the ones that don't work, and I agree with what you've listed, you have to give him credit when something is done right. He can't only be head booker half the time.

[Guest MikeSC]

Mike, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but by the same token, does Jarrett get credit for the storylines that have worked, such as his feud with Raven, Styles/Lynn and AMW/XXX feud? IMHO, if you're going to blame him for the ones that don't work, and I agree with what you've listed, you have to give him credit when something is done right. He can't only be head booker half the time.

Thing is --- did they work?

 

JJ v Raven ended up, IMO, damaging the company HORRIBLY because JJ screwed the fans out of the payoff they wanted. The rest would be difficult to claim drew a dime positively OR negatively.

-=Mike

[TNABaddboi 0]

I think may people would argue that the Styles/Lynn feud drew at least half of TNA's initial audience, but you're right in that you really can't make that claim about the AMW/XXX feud because it was never billed as the show. I think JJ's initial title chase and victory was well done and did deliver the payoff the fans wanted, though.

[Guest MikeSC]

I think may people would argue that the Styles/Lynn feud drew at least half of TNA's initial audience, but you're right in that you really can't make that claim about the AMW/XXX feud because it was never billed as the show. I think JJ's initial title chase and victory was well done and did deliver the payoff the fans wanted, though.

I won't argue that JJ's chase for the gold was well done. The burial of Killings afterwards is a little baffling, I'll admit.

 

But, Jarrett, honestly, seems incapable of de-pushing himself, even when it's needed. There really is no need for him to be close to the World Title now. He's had his years on top. And it's not like the fans seem to react to him to any great degree. It's like Hunter for a nice chunk of late 2002 and mid-2003.

 

Wrestlers should NEVER be head booker. JJ HAS to remove himself from that position --- without that, I'm not sure the company will ever thrive. JJ is unable to see TNA's successes occurring with anybody but him in the driver's seat.

-=Mike

[Placebo Effect 0]

Now, you can say he should have been supervised better in WCW, but it still doesn't excuse the complete and total inanity of the situation where he promoted such characters as The Dog and the Tank Abbot vs. Big Al epic.

That was under Sullivan's early 2001 era.

[TNABaddboi 0]

I won't argue that JJ's chase for the gold was well done. The burial of Killings afterwards is a little baffling, I'll admit.

 

But, Jarrett, honestly, seems incapable of de-pushing himself, even when it's needed. There really is no need for him to be close to the World Title now. He's had his years on top. And it's not like the fans seem to react to him to any great degree. It's like Hunter for a nice chunk of late 2002 and mid-2003.

 

Wrestlers should NEVER be head booker. JJ HAS to remove himself from that position --- without that, I'm not sure the company will ever thrive. JJ is unable to see TNA's successes occurring with anybody but him in the driver's seat.

 

I agree 100% that wrestlers should not be bookers. I don't think JJ is a horrible booker, as he has his moments. He is just falling victim to the tendency to trust yourself more than anyone else, and so he keeps pushing himself. If JJ was just a booker and not a wrestler, I don't think too many people would complain about his booking style. And yes, the burial of the Truth was mind-booglingly stupid.

[Guest MikeSC]

I won't argue that JJ's chase for the gold was well done. The burial of Killings afterwards is a little baffling, I'll admit.

 

But, Jarrett, honestly, seems incapable of de-pushing himself, even when it's needed. There really is no need for him to be close to the World Title now. He's had his years on top. And it's not like the fans seem to react to him to any great degree. It's like Hunter for a nice chunk of late 2002 and mid-2003.

 

Wrestlers should NEVER be head booker. JJ HAS to remove himself from that position --- without that, I'm not sure the company will ever thrive. JJ is unable to see TNA's successes occurring with anybody but him in the driver's seat.

 

I agree 100% that wrestlers should not be bookers. I don't think JJ is a horrible booker, as he has his moments. He is just falling victim to the tendency to trust yourself more than anyone else, and so he keeps pushing himself. If JJ was just a booker and not a wrestler, I don't think too many people would complain about his booking style. And yes, the burial of the Truth was mind-booglingly stupid.

The vibe I get from TNA is that they're trying to mix TN-style brawling, indy-style highflying, and Russo's sports entertainment stuff.

 

Unfortunately, their attempt to do all three is making them do NONE of it terribly well.

 

TNA needs to sit down and think:

They don't have better brawlers than the WWE --- so stop trying to work brawls as PPV ME's. WWE has better on-air performers for "sports entertainment" segments than TNA, so stop doing that.

 

TNA needs to focus on what they CAN do better than the WWE. The question that will eventually need to be asked is "Does indy-level high-flying actually draw?"

-=Mike

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Team Canada vs. AMW , eh?

 

Sounds good to me.

[Magus 0]

But, Jarrett, honestly, seems incapable of de-pushing himself, even when it's needed. There really is no need for him to be close to the World Title now. He's had his years on top. And it's not like the fans seem to react to him to any great degree. It's like Hunter for a nice chunk of late 2002 and mid-2003.

 

Wrestlers should NEVER be head booker. JJ HAS to remove himself from that position --- without that, I'm not sure the company will ever thrive. JJ is unable to see TNA's successes occurring with anybody but him in the driver's seat.

-=Mike

this man speaks truth.

 

IMO, more than anything right now, TNA needs a new booker. not Russo, not Mantell, not Jarrett. somebody fresh.

[Precious Roy 0]

If they are going to keep the 1 hour format, Monday's at 8 or 11 would best. And I think 11 would be better because fans, who haven't gotten their wrestling fill, could flip at the conclusion of Raw.

 

I agree, but I'd put the show at 8pm. Most regular wrestling fans set Monday night aside as 'rasslin' night' and are flipping channels before RAW starts. THAT'S the time to get them, put it on at 11 and you have to deal with not only the RAW overrun but people who work on Tuesdays going to sleep when RAW is over.

 

Russo is basically one of the worst bookers time has ever seen without the guiding hand of Vince McMahon to keep him from going completely crazy. Now, you can say he should have been supervised better in WCW, but it still doesn't excuse the complete and total inanity of the situation where he promoted such characters as The Dog and the Tank Abbot vs. Big Al epic.

 

I'm not positive of Tank/Al, but "The Dog" was definitely a Kevin Sullivan creation in the brief period between Russo's booking reigns. He left in late 99 due to disagreements with Turner management and Sullivan & Co. took over, which of course led to the Radicalz leaving the company in early 2000. Russo came back in the Spring of 00 along with Bischoff and they ran the whole "start over from scratch" angle with the titles and started the New Blood angle.

 

Jesus Christ, WCW was so fucked up

[TNABaddboi 0]

I agree, but I'd put the show at 8pm. Most regular wrestling fans set Monday night aside as 'rasslin' night' and are flipping channels before RAW starts. THAT'S the time to get them, put it on at 11 and you have to deal with not only the RAW overrun but people who work on Tuesdays going to sleep when RAW is over.

 

Good points all around. You're right. The more I think about it, the best place for a 1 hour primetime TNA show would Monday's at 8. I'd like them to get a second hour though, in my most ideal situation.