Benoit vs HHH Ironman match thread

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

After reading the posts in this thread, I think I know what they might be building up for. Here's a possibility.

 

-Trips wins the title in the ironman in Pittsburgh.

 

-Edge beats Trips at Summerslam for the title at the hands of interference of Benoit.

 

-Edge/Benoit start teaming to do a tag feud with Trips/Orton....with maybe a little of Eugene special guest refereeing.....

 

-Trips and Orton have animosity and break up.

 

-Edge/Benoit can't get along(since Benoit wants HIS belt back) and then get into a feud for the title.

 

-whoever wins their feud ultimately loses to Trips.....rince wash repeat.

[Just call me Dan 0]

This Edge stuff reminds me of DDP vs nWo. "I'm still standin'!"

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I honestly think they're building to Orton winning some kind of Number One Contender's match at SS and getting bounced out of Evolution when Trips still has the belt. It's the easiest logical way to turn Orton face without changing his character at all.

[Guest bigm350]

Personally, I don't see HHH having another 9 or 10 month reign with the belt. I think he'll win it every few months until he surpasses Flair's record or who knows, maybe he'll run it up to being something like a 30 time champion?

[Just call me Dan 0]

*shudders*

 

Orton as a face? Good god that would blow. See Cena, John.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Zsasz, how is what you said any different from "HHH will do anything to get the belt"? Most of what you listed falls under the "unsaid" category. Regals place, Benoits injury, Eugenes revenge (and Edge) are all up in the air. Yes, Regal got his shots in on HHH, Benoit got hurt, and Eugene was "run off", but none of that is enforced nor does is it guaranteed to be in the Ironman- which is what that extra week could have been used for. That extra week could have shown Benoit pulling an HBK and taking a move the wrong way in a match and passing out. That gives his injury weight rather than just the idea of "Benoit is going in hurt". That extra week could have had Regal say to Benoit that he'll do anything to ruin HHH's life and that he (benoit) can count on him to be on his side - even after the difference they've had in the past (reference the Benoit DVD). Or maybe have Regal "on the phone" with someone where he says "No, don't come to RAW next week - I'll do it myself. HHH will pay", and that kills two birds with one stone showing Regals determination to involve himself in the match and Eugene coming back. That extra week could have built MUCH more interest in the entire match and how the whole would play out rather than just the last 5 minutes.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Because they're all story threads that COULD come into play during the match.

 

There's A LOT more going on then just Benoit and HHH in this match, perhaps you've noticed. There's several threads involved in the story of this match, that don't need any more build up. Bottom line, the extra week is unnecessary, if anything the week in between would be lame duck, and probobly experience a drop in ratings.

 

Plus, your scenario doesn't really add a thing to the match at all. No casual fan's going to sit through the 60 minutes just because someone might interfere.

 

The WWE was right to go this week and not next, so as to give the most time possible to whatever the ME of SummerSlam will be. That's a lot more important at this point.

[snuffbox 0]

Im going to throw my prediction on the record...

 

Benoit will still be the champ next Tuesday morning.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Because they're all story threads that COULD come into play during the match.

 

There's A LOT more going on then just Benoit and HHH in this match, perhaps you've noticed. There's several threads involved in the story of this match, that don't need any more build up. Bottom line, the extra week is unnecessary, if anything the week in between would be lame duck, and probobly experience a drop in ratings.

 

Plus, your scenario doesn't really add a thing to the match at all. No casual fan's going to sit through the 60 minutes just because someone might interfere.

 

The WWE was right to go this week and not next, so as to give the most time possible to whatever the ME of SummerSlam will be. That's a lot more important at this point.

"There's a lot more important at this point"

 

You just totally summed up why Benoit has been buried as a champ.

[Dark Age 0]

SummerSlam seems to be becoming more and more of a clusterfuck. I have NO IDEA what any matches on the Raw brand are going to be, and we have what, 2 shows left? They seem to change who's feuding with who from week to week, drop stuff in mid point and move onto something else, hint at stuff that's never going to happen, and everything else in between.

 

Edge is going to be feuding with who going into SummerSlam? Orton, Triple H, Benoit, Batista? Jericho has even been mentioned. Just stick to something and go with it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Because they're all story threads that COULD come into play during the match.

 

But that's not the impression we're left with after RAW. I don't think that's the first thing on everyones minds when they think of the Ironman match. Hell, that wasn't the impression that _I_ got, and I watch the show more closely than most "regular" fans. They needed that extra week to hammer the message home that not only COULD those story threads come into play, but that they WILL. So you have to stay tuned to see what role each man will play in the match.

 

There's A LOT more going on then just Benoit and HHH in this match, perhaps you've noticed. There's several threads involved in the story of this match, that don't need any more build up. Bottom line, the extra week is unnecessary, if anything the week in between would be lame duck, and probobly experience a drop in ratings.

 

I don't think the ratings would drop. Hell, the HBK/Benoit match from 05/03/04 had the "in 2 weeks" where the middle number was the highest one.

 

05/03/04 3.9 (3.7, 4.1)

04/26/04 4.0 (4.0, 4.1)

04/19/04 3.8 (3.5, 4.0)

 

The extra week isn't for build up - it's to sum up everything that has happened before and will happen next and give the fans the reason to tune in "next week". It's the calm before the storm. Here, there is no calm, there is no perspective, there is just a sense of this big match is being rushed.

 

Plus, your scenario doesn't really add a thing to the match at all. No casual fan's going to sit through the 60 minutes just because someone might interfere.

 

It has a better chance of working than just doing "nothing". It lessens the "risk" of the crowd getting bored (both live crowd and TV viewers). Like I said before, fans want instant gratification -that's why you'll find a whole lot of people tuning in a the last few minutes rather than minute 30- so if you can provide them that with every single ad break, why wouldn't they watch? Each segment of the match (or "most") has a storyline either being resolved or furthered, and meanwhile the match builds up until the end. If this were a PPV match I would be deadset against all this crap, but it's live TV and a match on short-notice and -quite frankly- the match doesn't have a whole lot of importance to it (if HHH wins or loses, it's still the HHH show. Nothing would really change), so there is a pretty big risk of fan disinterest.

 

The WWE was right to go this week and not next, so as to give the most time possible to whatever the ME of SummerSlam will be. That's a lot more important at this point.

 

They weren't "right", because they put themselves in that position in the first place. This is clearly a last minute decision where they held-off on pushing Edge when he returned (really, he should have started right-away in a feud against Orton, and the Foley thing was a perfect "in"), it didn't seem right for him to all-of-a-sudden be mad at the way Evolution was "running things" after having been "back" for weeks/months. Then HHH probably got tired of Rugged Ronnie Benoit, already had his "epic" feud with Shawn Steamboat, and is looking for his Sting in Edge... hmm... maybe he's "Stedge" or "Edging"??

 

Anywho, The Man called Edge/HHH will have the normal bullshit buildup that HHH always has for his matches, so I don't think it really matters whether he has 1 week to do it or 10 weeks. HHH cuts a 20 minute promo, HHH get's pinned in a tag match, Evolution jumps Edge, HHH and Edge brawl around the arena, HHH loses confidence in himself and Flair tells him "you're the champ!", Bischoff makes a stipulation that will favour HHH and hurt Edge, and JR and King act like they haven't seen this before. They could do that all in one show, or they could carry it beyond Summerslam. They'll probably do both anyways.

Edited July 23, 2004 by RavishingRickRudo

[4hartthreat 0]

I think the early start time might just favor Benoit.

 

HHH loves to end the show having dominated someone or someones and growling at the camera. If he was going to win the title, I think the Ironman would be on last.

 

I'm going to predict Benoit retains due to Eugene and then HHH runs to Bischoff and demands a match with Eugene at SSlam. Then they build that up for the rest of the night.

 

As for those who say HHH will win and then defend against Edge at Slam because HHH HAS to be in the main event, what makes you think HHH vs. Eugene WOULDN'T be the main event of SSlam?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

A non title match on a card where there are like 8 titles being defended? We all know HHH's hard-on for the "big match", and Eugene is not "Big match" material. I think you are overestimating HHH's involvement with Eugene. HHH uses Eugene to get heat on himself and he already did that. He'll let Eugene (seemingly) get his heat back in a meaningless moment, but that's as far as it will go. Edge has already beaten 2 Evolution members in the past few weeks - it's a very quick pace - and if we are to assume that he'll keep up this pace, then Flair is next and finally HHH. Given the rate at which Edge is going, HHH/Summerslam seems to be the "right spot". I don't see why else they'd run this program this quickly if that wasn't their goal.

[Australian Pride 0]

Does anybody know when the last time a long running champion (of, say, more than 3 month title reign) was beaten on something other than PPV? I dont think it has happened in the era of monthly PPV's.

 

These are all that I can remember, and they are all rather short runs:

Angle (2003) - held title less than 2 months before losing to Lesnar in an Iron man match

Angle (2001) - less than 1 monthe before losing to Austin

Big Show (1999) - less than 2 months before losing to HHH

Mankind (1999) - 1 day and then lost to HHH

Undertaker (1999) - about 1 month and then lost to Austin

Mankind (1999) - less than 1 month before losing to Rock

Rock (1999) - less than 2 months before losing to Mankind

Kane (1998) - 1 day and then lost to Austin

Bret Hart (1997) - 1 day and then lost to Sid

 

I guess all this really shows that if Benoit does lose Monday it will be a massive kick in the nuts for him. To hold the belt for approximately 5 months only to lose 2 weeks prior to the second-biggest PPV of the year, in a gimmick match on Raw, would have to be a real letdown.

[BHK 0]

Sorry to bump, but for those interested, other than the 4 officially televised WWE ones since '96, here are the other known Ironman matches, I just thought some people might find this interesting.

 

(note: found on wrestleview.com which obtained it by Cawthon's History of WWE website)

 

 

note: spoiler tags have been added ot the hart/flair amd hart/owen Ironmans sincethey are available to download and be seen.

 

 

 

 

WWF @ Chicago, IL - Rosemont Horizon - Aug. 6, 1989

Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty vs. Jacques & Raymond Rougeau (marathon match)

 

WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - Aug. 19, 1989

Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty defeated Jacques & Raymond Rougeau in sudden death overtime in a 60-minute marathon match

 

WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - Sept. 9, 1989

Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty defeated Jacques & Raymond Rougeau in a 60-minute marathon match, 3 falls to 2; Shawn Michaels clotheslined Jacques to win the deciding fall in overtime

 

WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Gardens - January 9, 1993

 

Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair

 

WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Ric Flair (w/ Bobby Heenan) in a 60-minute Ironman match 3 falls to 2; fall #1 - Hart pinned Flair with a waist lock into a roll up at 27:17; fall #2 - Flair defeated Hart via submission with the figure-4 and by holding onto the top rope for leverage at 35:00 (during the fall, the referee ordered Heenan backstage); fall #3 - Flair defeated Hart via submission with the figure-4 and by holding onto the bottom rope for leverage at 37:40; fall #4 - Hart defeated Flair via submission with the Sharpshooter at 55:03; fall #5 - Hart pinned Flair by reversing a figure-4 attempt into an inside cradle at 59:42 as Flair attempted the figure-4 (at the beginning of the fall, Heenan returned to the ring to hand Flair a pair of brass knuckles - which ended up being used on the champion - before once again being ejected from ringside)

 

WWF @ East Rutherford, NJ - Meadowlands - July 8, 1994

WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Owen Hart in a 60-minute Ironman match, 3 falls to 2

 

WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Great Western Forum - July 29, 1994

WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Owen Hart in sudden death of a 60-minute Ironman match, 2 falls to 1

 

WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - August 6, 1994

WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Owen Hart in a 60-minute Ironman match, 2 falls to 1