Building Randy Up

[King Cucaracha 0]

Eddy's act was just fine til Kurt ended up crippled for a bit and Bradshaw was thrown into the main event.

Sure.

 

But generally, it was much more effective and fresher during his heel run, because he didn't have to resort to trying to pop or suck up to the crowd.

[Promoter 0]

And really though, HHH's quest to get HIS belt back is wearing rather thin now and the it's kinda obvious that even the casuals think so, as well.

 

Also, looking all the way to Survivor Series is a bit reaching, isn't it? I'd be more worried about this proposed title reign tanking before then pending on how they handle it.

You might have explained why the wwe might have done this. It was wearing thin and perhaps Trips is holding off getting the title back so soon and suggested this direction for the belt.

 

You have a point about this possibly tanking before Survivor Series, but maybe the wwe feels experimenting now is better than closer to Mania. Although, if they wanted to turn this guy face why wouldn't they just put the strap on HHH and have Orton do the Rumble/Mania chase. That might have been even more boring and predictable to even the densest fan and maybe that is why they are doing this reversal thing with Orton getting the belt. Personally, I don't think Orton/HHH is really a WrestleMania 21 main event yet. I also think the casuals aren't going to care that much about this whole thing. The story telling better be very compelling because I don't believe anyone feels Orton is at Triple H's level. Maybe that is the reason for Orton getting a long reign. More I think about it maybe Benoit should just hold the damn belt til at least Survivor Series as I previously believed.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

APO,

 

Everyone has different tastes when it comes to wrestling,a nd you are certainly entitles to having your opinion. But almost every house show report Ive read over the last couplde of months puts over the Orton-Edge matches. And I enjoyed both of their matches on TV, especially the one at Vengeance. But like I said to each their own.

 

HBK-Orton wasn't as good the first time because Orton was a lot worse, I believe he has improved a great deal since last year. If HBK is up for it, I think that could be a classic program.

 

I'll give you Jericho, I haven't seen them have a great match, yet, but I think if it was a big PPV or TV match Jerihco would do everything he could to make it at least decent.

 

And of course Benoit can have a great match with anyone, say thats a moot point.

 

I guess we'll see, maybe Orton will suck in all those programs (if they happen), btu I think he'll step up.

[Guest Contentious C]

And of course Benoit can have a great match with anyone, say thats a moot point.

Ugh.

 

Why don't we just not put any thought whatsoever behind anything we say from now on?

[Just call me Dan 0]

Actually, he probably did. If you've watched Benoit matches over the years, you know he is capable of carrying nearly anyone to something pretty damned good.

 

Notice, he didn't say "All of Benoit's matches WILL be great"., but more along the lines of that the matches "can" be great.

 

Chill out.

[Guest Contentious C]

I've probably watched more Benoit 'over the years' than just about anyone here.

 

He has not shown the ability to potentially carry anyone to 'something great.' The 'great' tends to show up when he wrestles someone with talent. He is not going to have 'great' matches with Kane. He is not going to have them with Edge. He is not going to have them with Batista. He is not going to have them with Orton, given Orton's current abilities. He didn't have them with Sid. He did have them with Scott Hall. He didn't have them with the vast majority of the Flock. He didn't have them with Booker T or Fit Finlay, for that matter, and those guys were good at the time.

 

And contrary to popular belief, he hasn't been having them with HHH or Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle. The last genuine ****+ match he had was, what, the 5/31/01 match vs. Austin, and that ended up leading to the 10-Germans spot being a throwaway and a jerkoff. Watch Benoit against Liger, watch him against Eddy, watch him against Bret, watch him against Sasuke -- those are 'damned good' to 'great.' Making guys like Flair or Cena or Show less boring for 6-7 minutes isn't 'great.'

[Just call me Dan 0]

The problem, Mr. Collins, stems from the meaning we each take on of the word great. I took his post and the use of the word "great" to mean better than good, but not something of legends, as you may have taken it.

 

If there are any who can be thrown in there with wrestler "X" and have a chance at pulling something out that would be considered better than just good, I'd give that nod to Benoit, and apparently so would CyNick.

 

That is all I'm saying.

[iggymcfly 0]

You can say that Orton doesn't have any opponents he can work ***** matches with, but he does have a lot more options in the main event than Benoit does. As a heel who could turn face in a couple weeks or stay heel for the next two years just as easily who hasn't burned out their feud with anyone, Orton could work with basically anyone on the roster.

 

If Benoit wins at Summerslam, I really don't see what they do with Unforgiven. Since Orton just got his title shot by winning a battle royal when he didn't really seem "worthy" otherwise, he's have no claim to main event another PPV if he loses. HHH has had way too many losses to merit another title shot, and Kane was beaten too decisively to earn another shot as well. Edge anmd Jericho look to be going into a hot feud that will last at least another month, so that really leaves no one who could main event with Benoit. Batista would be too much Evolution if Orton had already lost, and there's no way Christian would be ready.

 

While I'd like to see Benoit retain since he really has some momentum with the title, and I don't really think Orton's ready for the belt yet, I just don't see where they'd go with it. I think at the very least, Orton is going to need a one month reign with the title, because there's nowhere else to go with Benoit right now.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I've probably watched more Benoit 'over the years' than just about anyone here.

 

He has not shown the ability to potentially carry anyone to 'something great.'  The 'great' tends to show up when he wrestles someone with talent.  He is not going to have 'great' matches with Kane.  He is not going to have them with Edge.  He is not going to have them with Batista.  He is not going to have them with Orton, given Orton's current abilities.  He didn't have them with Sid.  He did have them with Scott Hall.  He didn't have them with the vast majority of the Flock.  He didn't have them with Booker T or Fit Finlay, for that matter, and those guys were good at the time.

 

And contrary to popular belief, he hasn't been having them with HHH or Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle.  The last genuine ****+ match he had was, what, the 5/31/01 match vs. Austin, and that ended up leading to the 10-Germans spot being a throwaway and a jerkoff.  Watch Benoit against Liger, watch him against Eddy, watch him against Bret, watch him against Sasuke -- those are 'damned good' to 'great.'  Making guys like Flair or Cena or Show less boring for 6-7 minutes isn't 'great.'

Can't comment on everything because I have to go soon.

 

First off, some egostroking. Nobody's probably watched more Benoit matches than me!! I think people around here can back that statement.

 

Some comments

 

Benoit's better at carrying as a heel. He's also restrcited in the WWE.

 

Benoit's perfermonaces with Kain were great however.

 

You underestimate Edge. I believe you have a great match listed as 4 stars or above. Benoit and Edge are capable of that although it would be better if Benoit was the bad guy. They showed the promise in 2002

 

Batista? Doubtful but you never know. He is getting better. I don't like to say never about anything

 

Orton will be a tough task but you know Benoit will want to put him over big. I think this match just like the Kain matches will surprise people.

 

The actual consturctin Benoit did in the Sid match was well done. It wasn't a great match but some of that was due to the finishing segment. If Benoit was a little bit more unselfish this match would be thought of more fondly instead of just a good match.

 

Scot Hall? The first one was likeable and the 2nd was a definite improvement but I don't see for example how they were better than the 2004 Kain matches. Maybe thet 2nd Hall match in debatable.

 

So wich flock matches were you really impressed with? I'm guessing the short Kidman match on Nitro which was really well done for the time alloted.

 

Booker and Finlay were pretty memoarable matches. Benoit and Finlay got across what they wanted to do very well. That's why people still talk about them.

 

Last 4 star match Benoit had was against Lesnar at 4 stars. Than Angle at 4 1/4 stars. If Michaels and Benoit had a super ending instead of what we saw they could've hit 4 stars as well. The HHH matches weren't 4 stars however except for the No Mercy match.

 

10 german suplex spot was essential to the spirit of the Austin match. It was what happened afterwards and you really can't blame Benoit or Austin on that one which created the controversy. So actually it's the exact opposite of a jerk off.

 

Yes, Benoit vs Liger, Eddie, and Bret are better than the matches against Flair, Cena and Show.

 

Now can Benoit carry anyone to greatness under ideal circumstances? Well, I don't like to say it's impossable but it's doubtful that anyone can do that. However I do feel that under the ideal circumstances he can carry anyone to good as long as they somewhat know what they're doing.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

That is what they should have done with Brock Lesnar originally instead of cutting his reign by jobbing out to Big Show.

 

I'm pretty sure that is what they were going to do had Big Show not been a clumsy oaf and broken Brock's rib.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

I've probably watched more Benoit 'over the years' than just about anyone here.

 

He has not shown the ability to potentially carry anyone to 'something great.' The 'great' tends to show up when he wrestles someone with talent. He is not going to have 'great' matches with Kane. He is not going to have them with Edge. He is not going to have them with Batista. He is not going to have them with Orton, given Orton's current abilities. He didn't have them with Sid. He did have them with Scott Hall. He didn't have them with the vast majority of the Flock. He didn't have them with Booker T or Fit Finlay, for that matter, and those guys were good at the time.

 

And contrary to popular belief, he hasn't been having them with HHH or Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle. The last genuine ****+ match he had was, what, the 5/31/01 match vs. Austin, and that ended up leading to the 10-Germans spot being a throwaway and a jerkoff. Watch Benoit against Liger, watch him against Eddy, watch him against Bret, watch him against Sasuke -- those are 'damned good' to 'great.' Making guys like Flair or Cena or Show less boring for 6-7 minutes isn't 'great.'

I feel blessed to be on this forum with you, since you are obviously the most credible source for rating match quality. I cant belive Ive went this long watching wrestling without looking to you for guidance.

 

Anyway, comedy aside, I think Benoit is one of the top workers in the world, and most people agree with that. He's more likely than just about anyone in North America to get consistantly good matches out of average or below average workers. Hey, maybe you dont like him, or think he's that good, thats cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

And I doubt you've seen more Benoit matches than I have, unless you're an agent for the WWE, in which case you probably have.