Kill Bill Vol 1, Anime and pedophiles

[Guest wildpegasus]

After watching Kill Bill Vol 1 I noticed that once the anime scene hit we had a pedophilia (is that the right word for it?) scene with one of the main charactors. The scene in question was when we had flashbacks and we see an underage female on top of a man preforming sex just before she was about to kill him. Now as anyone who watches a good amount of anime knows there is a lot of pedophilia stuff in it and it doesn't really matter what show you watch. To cut to the chase here it was no coincidence that the scene in question occured when the anime tribute part of Kill Bill started. It was meant to be cool and nothing but blatant fan service for all pedophiles out there. I've never seen something as obvious since I played Xenosaga for blatant in your face pedophilia done to please the watching audience. Sure, one can say it was just the back history of a charactor and it was essential to show why that charactor turned out the way she did (really though, they weren't building a charactor; all they were building was the "coolness" of her and her pedophilia past was definitely part of that coolness) but even if the creators of the movie wanted to go the pedophilia route why do they have to show pedophilia in a fanservice way? They didn't have to but they did just like anime or a videogame like Xenosaga often does. Now I can understand how anime and a game like Xenosaga can slip under the radar but how does Kill Bill do it? It's a well known movie and aren't there laws against this kind of stuff? Do people just pretend they never saw it and hope nobody ever mentions it and by that way it'll just go away?

[Guest whatitistoburn]

Talk about a hang up.

 

Yes, that are laws against pedaphilic porn. However, I doubt the small sequence in the middle of the film constitutes as porn. By that logic, Lolita shouldn't be allowed to exist because of the pedaphilic overtones of the entire work.

 

Seriously, calm down. The anime sequence is in there as one of the many nods to the works that inspired Taratino. I seriously doubt anyone walked out of the theater going "Wow, O-ren was so cool because she had sex when she was a kid! She's awesome!" It was just part of her backstory explaining how she became a ruthless assassin. Calm down.

[Ravenbomb 0]

they didn't actually show them having sex, so no, no laws broken

[Guest JMA]

I don't think the pedophilia in the anime scene was presented in a way that condoned the activity. Indeed, O-Ren killed her enemy (the pedophile in question) in a gruesome way and mocked him as he died. But I don't think the scene was meant to titilate, it was meant to show that O-Ren was a ruthless bad-ass. Similarly, it was heavily implied that the Bride/Beatrix was raped by Buck while she was in a coma; however, that does not mean that the movie was justifying the action. I see no credible evidence of fanservice in the aforementioned anime scene.

 

Speaking of anime, Tarantino DOES describe Go-Go as, "A Japanese anime come to life."

[DMann2003 0]

Did anyone watch the 2 volumes back 2 back last night (or since vol2 came out). I did, what a masterpiece the 2 are combined. I think Tarantino's work here eclipses my love for Jackie Brown (which is criminally underrated).

[Guest wildpegasus]

Talk about a hang up.

 

Yes, that are laws against pedaphilic porn.  However, I doubt the small sequence in the middle of the film constitutes as porn.  By that logic, Lolita shouldn't be allowed to exist because of the pedaphilic overtones of the entire work.

 

Seriously, calm down.  The anime sequence is in there as one of the many nods to the works that inspired Taratino.  I seriously doubt anyone walked out of the theater going "Wow, O-ren was so cool because she had sex when she was a kid!  She's awesome!"  It was just part of her backstory explaining how she became a ruthless assassin.  Calm down.

Uhh, I'm not angry. I'm just sporting an observation and want to get some discoussion going.

 

I think you're being a little naive though. Why did they just have to have that charactor having that background? Why did they have to give us a visual?

 

Did anyone watch the 2 volumes back 2 back last night (or since vol2 came out). I did, what a masterpiece the 2 are combined. I think Tarantino's work here eclipses my love for Jackie Brown (which is criminally underrated).

 

Kill Bill Vol 1 is one of the most overrated movies I've ever seen. A glorified TLC spotfest and a spotfest that wasn't good to start off with. This from someone who wanted to love the movie. The only thing good thing in it is its music. I like the fact people can love this movie but I've seen the same concept Kill Bill strives for (coolness) done a million times better.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Did anyone watch the 2 volumes back 2 back last night (or since vol2 came out). I did, what a masterpiece the 2 are combined. I think Tarantino's work here eclipses my love for Jackie Brown (which is criminally underrated).

I watched them both back to back earlier this summer (got a bootleg of vol. 2), and the combined movie is great

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

Hm, how is Kill Bill: Volume 1 a "spotfest" ? That would seem to imply a bunch of things were happening for no reason to a bunch of people that didn't matter. I can understand not liking the movie, but to declare it a "spotfest" is ignoring a good portion of the movie.

[AndrewTS 0]

Now as anyone who watches a good amount of anime knows there is a lot of pedophilia stuff in it and it doesn't really matter what show you watch.

 

Pedophilia is in all anime?

 

Not true, but a lot of overtones of it exist in a lot of anime, due heavily to the Japanese buru-sera fetish.

 

However, most of it has always seemed to me the "borderline" type; younger teens, like 13/14, are far more sexualized in anime than you'll see on American TV or movies (i.e. Evangelion or Sailor Moon).

[Guest wildpegasus]

Hm, how is Kill Bill: Volume 1 a "spotfest" ? That would seem to imply a bunch of things were happening for no reason to a bunch of people that didn't matter.  I can understand not liking the movie, but to declare it a "spotfest" is ignoring a good portion of the movie.

Exactly, you hit the nail right on the head. A bunch of things of happening for no real rhyme or reason to bunch a people we have no real reason to care about. A spotfest of "coolness" which didn't even manage to be cool. The pacing of the movie is hard to take too. And how can any wrestling fan support a movie where they no sell chokesleepers? The fight scenes which are a big part of Kill Bill Vol 1 are total spotfest. Watch the fight scene in "They Live" 10 times over or Hogan vs Zeus from "No Holds Barred" which features physcology! and than watch the ones in Kill Bill 10 times over. See what truly holds up.

 

 

 

Pedophilia is in all anime?

 

No, I didn't say that but there is stuff that caters to in it in practically any genre. Kinda funny you mentioned Sailor Moon because there are several instanses throughout the series where they go very young with stuff that caters to pedophilia.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

Actually, everything is happening for a very obvious reason. They tried to kill the Bride. That's a pretty good reason to go out for bloodlust, I'd say. You're even given a reason as to why they tried to kill her, Bill wasn't happy with her being married to someone who wasn't him. There is the reasoning for the fighting.

 

I'd pretty much have to call every fight in the history of cinema a "spotfest". Most real fights are gonna be over pretty quickly, quite frankly, not extended on for minutes on end. Every fight scene in movies has at least some motivation to be "cool", not well thought out masterpieces.

 

I prefer the fights from Kill Bill to the ones you mentioned, but that's because I'd rather watch over the top idiotic martial arts then 2 guys punching a lot. I can watch Raw for that.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Actually, everything is happening for a very obvious reason. They tried to kill the Bride. That's a pretty good reason to go out for bloodlust, I'd say. You're even given a reason as to why they tried to kill her, Bill wasn't happy with her being married to someone who wasn't him. There is the reasoning for the fighting.

 

I'd pretty much have to call every fight in the history of cinema a "spotfest". Most real fights are gonna be over pretty quickly, quite frankly, not extended on for minutes on end. Every fight scene in movies has at least some motivation to be "cool", not well thought out masterpieces.

 

I prefer the fights from Kill Bill to the ones you mentioned, but that's because I'd rather watch over the top idiotic martial arts then 2 guys punching a lot. I can watch Raw for that.

But are you given reason to care? No. Do we care about the charactors, why they're doing what they're doing? No. Is there anything that makes the charactors stand out? No.

 

 

 

Like I said before after repeated viewings I guarantee you that the fights (throw the Rocky fights in there too) I mentioned will stand up better than Kill Bill Vol 1. Go ahead and try it. I dare you. There's a reason why the fight scene in "they live" is always mentioned as one of the top fight scenes ever when somebody mentions the topic. Fight scenes lie that, Hogan vs Zeus and the Rocky films will forever stand the test of time.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

Actually, the They Live fight tends to come up in the "My God, this is ridiculous" conversations more than anything else. It's hilariously bad and overly long. If it's played as a parody of over done fight scenes in movies, great, but as an actual fight? It's just funny more than anything.

 

The Rocky fights look awful, with every punch obviously missing by fuckin miles. I won't get into the fact that they'd both be dead from that punishment in the real world, as it is a movie, so I can let that go.

 

Zeus vs Hogan is just really bad and I don't have to go into that frankly. On the cheese scale, it's a solid 8.

 

As far as needing a reason to care, I think the main character getting shot in the head and believing that her child was killed as well is a pretty good reason to care. Why wouldn't I get behind someone with that kind of motivation? I very much care that she wants revenge, her whole life was destroyed and 4 years of it is gone. I'd go into the other characters, but I'd prefer not to make this the longest post in the history of the board. I'll agree, the side characters are just that, side characters, Go Go is there to do cool shit and nothing more really. But the main ones very much have motivation and reasoning behind everything they do.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

It isn't porn. It's a ficitious CARTOON SEQUENCE used to tell a dramatic story.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Well since this is the highest bumped Kill Bill topic..I have a question. Is teh double set out yet? With both Vol1 and Vol2 in the same package..? And if so how much is it?

[godthedog 0]

"characters with motivation" doesn't save vol. 1 from being a spotfest. the movie makes it very clear that it doesn't care about what the bride's motivations are: it cares about slick lighting, making references to other movies & genres and wowing you with spectacles of violence. the bride never struggles (just goes through the motions, like a video game), she never makes a choice, she has almost no history (and even her history is just an excuse to refer to other movies & genres), she doesn't even have a name. there is exactly ONE moment when we see that there is something really at stake in all this (when she wakes up in a coma without her baby), and the moment is promptly forgotten about for the sake of showing all kinds of creative ways to kill people. the audience has no reason to care about her.

 

vol. 2 is another story. but vol. 1 is a spotfest.

[JasonX 0]

After watching Kill Bill Vol 1 I noticed that once the anime scene hit we had a pedophilia (is that the right word for it?) scene with one of the main charactors. The scene in question was when we had flashbacks and we see an underage female on top of a man preforming sex just before she was about to kill him. Now as anyone who watches a good amount of anime knows there is a lot of pedophilia stuff in it and it doesn't really matter what show you watch. To cut to the chase here it was no coincidence that the scene in question occured when the anime tribute part of Kill Bill started. It was meant to be cool and nothing but blatant fan service for all pedophiles out there. I've never seen something as obvious since I played Xenosaga for blatant in your face pedophilia done to please the watching audience.  Sure, one can say it was just the back history of a charactor and it was essential to show why that charactor turned out the way she did (really though, they weren't building a charactor; all they were building was the "coolness" of her and her pedophilia past was definitely part of that coolness) but even if the creators of the movie wanted to go the pedophilia route why do they have to show pedophilia in a fanservice way? They didn't have to but they did just like anime or a videogame like Xenosaga often does. Now I can understand how anime and a game like Xenosaga can slip under the radar but how does Kill Bill do it? It's a well known movie and aren't there laws against this kind of stuff? Do people just pretend they never saw it and hope nobody ever mentions it and by that way it'll just go away?

IIRC Quentin has stated that the whole purpose of the anime sequence, besides him wanting to include an anime sequence in the film, was to allow him to get away with having his version of O-Ren's origin without being censored do to the fact that having a 12-13 year old female actress castrate a pedophile and to be surrounded by flying guts, rape, and dismembered body parts would have resulted in the entire sequence either being horribly cut back or all together cut from the film do to the MPAA.

[JasonX 0]

Well since this is the highest bumped Kill Bill topic..I have a question. Is teh double set out yet? With both Vol1 and Vol2 in the same package..? And if so how much is it?

All that's out at the moment are the individual, bare-boned copies of Kill Bill V1 and V2.....

[BlackFlagg 0]

It's been said time and time again. Vol. 1 was Quentin making his dream action movie. Vol 2 is where everything comes together in his more usual style.

[cabbageboy 0]

My dad got Vol. 2 the other day but for some reason I'm not thrilled with the idea of seeing it again. I dunno, that movie didn't quite do it for me somehow. I can't really say I was expecting the level of violence from the first movie (after all, it was Budd, Elle, and Bill himself left), but the whole thing was really long winded and draggy. At first I kinda liked the direction it was going in when she finally meets Bill....then after about 10 mins I started thinking "Okay, enough of this shit...just KILL him."

 

Maybe this needs to be watched back to back? As two movies the first is mostly action and no story, the 2nd is mostly story and sparse action.

 

As far as the pedophile stuff goes....did you not get that the guy's twisted weakness (molesting girls) is what led to him getting killed? It wasn't remotely saying that being a pedophile was a good thing.

[dubq 0]

After watching Kill Bill Vol 1 I noticed that once the anime scene hit we had a pedophilia (is that the right word for it?) scene with one of the main charactors. The scene in question was when we had flashbacks and we see an underage female on top of a man preforming sex just before she was about to kill him.

Actually, that was Oren Ishii [Lucy Liu's character] and I think the idea was what she was leading the Yakuza boss to believe he was going to "get some" only killing him before any sex act was performed.

 

Could be wrong, but that's the way I remember it..

[Guest wildpegasus]

The anime sequence is in there as one of the many nods to the works that inspired Taratino.  I seriously doubt anyone walked out of the theater going "Wow, O-ren was so cool because she had sex when she was a kid!  She's awesome!"  It was just part of her backstory explaining how she became a ruthless assassin.  Calm down.

All right, what I'm saying here is that the scene in question that I've talking about didn't have to be shown. They also could've done the backstory differently if they wanted to. The scene in question is something I believe pedipholes would like and as a result it is fanservice for them. I also believe it's there for shock value (as a lot of this movie is) and a lot of shockvalue comes down to being "cool". Cool is about being different -- away from the norm or shock -- wether it's wearing sunglasses, someone's attitude or killing people in movies (an ultimate shock). A lot of males wouldn't kill in real life but a lot of those same males consider killing in movies cool. Not that that's wrong because for certain reasons if males were completely desensitised to killing humans than I'd be scared. Now people might not think that the scene in question is cool but really it's there for the same reasons that a lot of other cool stuff in the movie is. It's different from the norm, it's an ultimate shock and it's a scene that makes the charactor distinctive from not only normal lives but movie lifes as well so in theory it holds a lot of the same distinctions as "cool". People may not walk out of the theatres literally saying your quote there but a lot of your quote is actually true in certain ways.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Pedophiles would like seeing a pedophile being gruesomely murdered?

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Pedophiles would like seeing a pedophile being gruesomely murdered?

 

Yeah...isn't it just normal people who want to see that?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The anime sequence is in there as one of the many nods to the works that inspired Taratino.  I seriously doubt anyone walked out of the theater going "Wow, O-ren was so cool because she had sex when she was a kid!  She's awesome!"  It was just part of her backstory explaining how she became a ruthless assassin.  Calm down.

All right, what I'm saying here is that the scene in question that I've talking about didn't have to be shown. They also could've done the backstory differently if they wanted to. The scene in question is something I believe pedipholes would like and as a result it is fanservice for them. I also believe it's there for shock value (as a lot of this movie is) and a lot of shockvalue comes down to being "cool". Cool is about being different -- away from the norm or shock -- wether it's wearing sunglasses, someone's attitude or killing people in movies (an ultimate shock). A lot of males wouldn't kill in real life but a lot of those same males consider killing in movies cool. Not that that's wrong because for certain reasons if males were completely desensitised to killing humans than I'd be scared. Now people might not think that the scene in question is cool but really it's there for the same reasons that a lot of other cool stuff in the movie is. It's different from the norm, it's an ultimate shock and it's a scene that makes the charactor distinctive from not only normal lives but movie lifes as well so in theory it holds a lot of the same distinctions as "cool". People may not walk out of the theatres literally saying your quote there but a lot of your quote is actually true in certain ways.

Why didn't it have to be shown? That whole section was to show what a deeply disturbed woman O-Ren is and just saying that it happened wouldn't have the same effect on the viewer as showing it.

 

With that said there's no sex in the scene at all. She's sitting on top of him, but you see no nudity, no bouncing, no penetration. I don't see how it does fan service to pedophiles when a pedophile is being brutally murdered in the scene.

 

The whole thing with him being a pedophile was that was how she got to him. She used it against him to get close enough to kill him. So it also fit the storyline. It was needed to properly give us a feel of what she was going through. So when we see her lob off the head of that one guy later in the film we don't just think she's a little wacky...we know she's full blown mentally scarred.

[KK Rage 0]

I hate to sound like the PTC, because these movies are my absolute favorites, but I'd just like to say if you are bothered by cartoon pedophelia, then maybe you also should be bothered by:

 

 

***SPOILERS***

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A defenseless pregnant woman getting brutally beaten and shot in the head

A woman getting a knife to the chest

A woman in a coma getting raped for 4 years

A man getting his tongue ripped out and bleeding to death

A man getting beaten to death with the side of a door

A little girl watching her parents get murdered

A man being assassinated in the back of a limousine

A man getting beheaded

A woman getting her arm chopped off

A teenager murdered due to nails stuck in the side of her head

20 + people getting beheaded, cut in half, dismembered, etc...

A woman getting scapled

A woman being buried alive after being shot in the breasts

A man murdered by a coworker who hid a poisonous snake in a bag

A woman getting both of her eyes ripped out of her skull

A man murdered by having his dinner poisoned

Women having their face cut for disobeying their pimp

A man getting murdered by damage to the heart and pressure points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just saying, ya know?

[Guest Reservoir_Kitty]

She's not having sex with him, I assume this was all either before (or, if you insist that this is some sorta depraved thing Tarantino did on purpose) after sex when she killed him. She's merely sitting on top of him. They're both covered in the essential spots. The only reason this scene is in the movie is to show how O-Ren got revenge for her parents' murders. It's a simple equation, really...

 

Matsumoto kills O-Ren's family.. O-Ren finds out/knows he's a pedophile... O-Ren is a young girl.. O-Ren wants revenge and thusly has a simple way to get it.

 

I'd be willing to bet if you asked Tarantino, there's no "pedophile fanservice" (which is just plain stupid, in my humble opinion.. I'm sure Tarantino gives a shit about making some sicko happy while he's writing his films) intended with the scene, there was more than likely no sex, and you're probably just overreacting.

 

That was the furthest thing from my mind the first time I watched that portion of the movie, I was too busy stifling my giggles from the torrents of blood that were flying out of various wounds. *Shrug*

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

How ELSE is a revenge minded girl gonna get close enough to a Yakuza boss to kill him? It is actually a really calculated move on her part. Makes for a good excuse to build her becoming one of the worlds deadliest assassans so early in life as well. Cuz when the "underworld" hears about Matsumoto getting killed, they'll want to hire the resourseful person who did it. Hence at 20 years old, suddenly she is THAT highly ranked to be hired to snipe military dictators? Hells yeah!

 

Plus, there wasn't any sex in the scene. It plays out like they never got to it cuz O-REN went right for the kill once he was vulnerable.