LOST

[Ravenbomb 0]

Good on Sawyer for finally beating Jack down.

[goldengreek 0]

In the beginning, when Jacob was talking to the "dark dude", it was implied that Jacob was bringing that ship to the island. Why? Did they both need new souls or bodies or something to live forever? Do we think that one of them is the physical manifestation of that Egyptian god?

 

Just hard to wrap my mind around Jacob visiting all of our main losties at some point during their lives. If he knew, did he want to die? He certainly didn't seem to say anything to Ben to make him stop, when he very easily could have. It seemed that Jacob made a point to touch everyone he visited (I think--I'm blanking on whether or not he touched Sayid). I wonder if that's significant?

 

 

 

So who is Alana and her buddies? Clearly she knew Jacob, was she a former other or some sort? A descendant of others? Man they have a lot of questions to answer next season.

 

 

 

Is anyone else SUPER ANNOYED by the Locke plot twist?? I've invested five years of my life in this damn show, thinking Locke was special. But he only thinks he's special because Richard told him because Locke told HIM. We finally see him take hold of his "destiny" and it turns out it's NotLocke, it's some other...thing....person...whatever. Wow. I guess John Locke died as he lived -- a gullible fool with no life purpose. And so can we assume that Not!Locke is the entity that's been dwelling in the cabin? The circle of ash was meant to keep him/it trapped inside.

 

YES!! Locke unknowingly let the bad guy out!!!

 

 

So if Miles is right, and Jack was indeed the cause of the incident, then does that mean the incident happened like it always did, and the crash will happen anyway? I mean, we got to see how Chang lost his arm, which we already knew he did. Maybe they piled all that concrete on top of the mess, built the hatch anyway, then spent the next 30 years pushing the button after all.

 

 

 

[Matt Young 0]

What. The. Fuck.

 

I have said that I hoped the ending would be different from the "spoilers" I unwittingly learned about, which said that the gang from 1977 would be sent back to 2007 and encounter themselves aged 30 years (the "small group" of Others in the Temple), because I wanted to be surprised. I would've enjoyed that ending a lot more than the real one, however.

 

The episode as a whole was very good, but after seeing 2 excellent endings on the last 2 season finales, this one was just a soul crushing letdown. Despite how awesome the first hour and 56 minutes of the episode was, I'll be left with a bad taste in my mouth for 8 months due to the Locke reveal, Jacob death, and the fact that nothing was shown after Juliet detonated the bomb (and how the fuck did it not detonate after falling hundreds of feet?). 3 horrible decisions. I went from thinking the show couldn't serve up a "miss", to losing almost all faith in regards to a satisfying conclusion to what was until that point the greatest television story ever told.

 

The good: I loved the Jacob flashbacks. Juliet dying was an expected (but the manner in which it happened was a surprise) but heart-wrenching occurrence. Beautiful work on the part of Josh Holloway and Elizabeth Mitchell. I probably would have cried, but I had friends over, heh. Phil's death was awesome, though I wanted Sawyer to kill him. Jacob seemingly bringing Locke back to life was a great moment. I enjoyed seeing Rose, Bernard, and Vincent, though how could a cabin 5 miles from the barracks not be found over the course of 3 years? I also liked the painting of the golden retriever in Jacob's cabin. I don't think it had any real significance, and may have been a subtle wink and nod to the theory that Vincent is Jacob, a theory which I propagated.

 

Like I said, great episode, but the ending was horrible. Maybe there will be a great payoff next season, but the ending was akin to a cannonball to the nutsack. I just hope they can redeem themselves. No matter how good everything has been, people's strongest impression will most often be based on how things end. And tonight, they did not end well.

[Swindle 0]

So, who is Jacob's nemesis/friend/associate/rival? I so want to call him Esau.

 

He doesn't like that ship showing up in the past (the Black Rock). "They always come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same." Jacob disagrees and is trying to prove him wrong. "It only ends once. Any time before that, it’s progress."

 

Free will vs. destiny....hmmm. Dark dude manipulates Locke and Ben to get the result he wants (Jacob dead), open season on the inhabitants of the island, while Jacob on the other hand believes in the free will of humanity, telling Hugo he always has a choice. Jacob seemed like he was willing to die at the hands of Ben and Not!Locke because I think he knows the Losties will come back and finally free the island from the clutches of the Dark Dude.

 

This also goes back to Locke's convo with Walt way back in the pilot, "Two sides: One is light; one is dark."

 

Ben did say dead is dead, but Jack told Richard not to give up on Locke. I still think the Real!Locke is not totally out of the picture yet. Jacob did bless/touch him in the past. He can't just be conned, killed, and that's that.

[The Electrifyer 0]

Just hard to wrap my mind around Jacob visiting all of our main losties at some point during their lives. If he knew, did he want to die? He certainly didn't seem to say anything to Ben to make him stop, when he very easily could have. It seemed that Jacob made a point to touch everyone he visited (I think--I'm blanking on whether or not he touched Sayid). I wonder if that's significant?

 

Add this to the never ending theories about Lost, but I have one for this. I think Jacob has visited everyone who has ever come to the island (Well, maybe not everyone, but the significant ones and then they probably brought some insignificant people along with them). When the man in black asks Jacob who were the people in the ship they saw off the coast and how they found the island, he answered himself saying it was Jacob who brought them here. Then he talks about how they'll do the same as everyone, come, fight, corrupt, destroy. Jacob declares this as progress and that it only "ends" once.

 

What I think is happening here is that Jacob has brought all these people to the island, the black rock, the Dharma Initiative, Desmond, other possibly castaways and most importantly the Oceanic flight 815 survivors. He brings them to the island by visiting them at very significant points of their lives, and influencing there fate to come to the island. The only difference with the Oceanic 815 guys is that everyone before them that he has brought to the island was progress, but these castaways are going the lead the "end" that he talks about.

 

I am also thinking that Not!Locke is like Ghost Christian. The real Locke and Christian are dead, but Not!Locke and Ghost Christian are manifestations of the island. However, Ghost Christian speaks on behalf of Jacob and I think Not!Locke speaks or acts on behalf of the evil part of the island. Whoever the man in black was, he got to possess Locke, while Jacob got Christian.

 

[RedJed 0]

So I'm watching the finale again a second time (after just getting done checking out that hour recap of the season episode that helped me out as a bit of a refresher on just how tied up some storylines got in this season) and some questions and things popped out here which I figure would make for some good discussion/theories....

 

-What "question" didn't the pilot answer right? And what is he a candidate for? I may have missed this in a previous episode.

 

-And what exactly is this new groups' deal? Assuming they probably just work for Widmore and were contracted by him to be on that plane, since Widmore found out about it through Ellie Hawking, etc. Interesting to see, as someone said, how the Alana woman knew Jacob prior somehow, and apparently was near death, much like Locke was, when Jacob healed her up.

 

-Sun finds a ring inside the baby carriage from with the intials DS - Matt Young pointed out to me this was in terms of Charlie's band, Drive Shaft, nice nod to the mythology there.

 

-So is the reason WHY they were destined to be on the island (perhaps not as a purpose to help anyone but just themselves) just simply from a cause of Jacob touching them at one point or another? That seems to be assumed reason how they all tie together as far as making it to the island at one point or another. It may be more complex than that or else maybe I'm just over analyzing it (which is probably more likely). What I mean is if Jacob hadn't had a connection/moment/etc when one of the characters was young (ie BEFORE they crash on the island the first time), does that mean that they were kind of drawn to the island accidentally (kind of like an accessory to the pre-destined fates already of people like Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet...) and as a followup to that, when Jacob then finally "touches" them, does that mean they are a sort of a "special" type with a particular purpose? Think of this in terms of how Jacob was with Locke when he fell out the window, the latino chick in the hospital near death, and Hurley running into Jacob in the cab after he got out of jail, and given the guitar, etc. This all probably makes no sense and wish I could explain it better, but I see there having to be a reason why Jacob met people in different certain times in their life and under different circumstances. For instance, I wonder if Kate was destined to the island just simply because she never stopped doing what Jacob told her not to when she was a kid. And Sawyer clearly destined to the island to get past his, well.....past. Then as far as Locke and Hurley, Jacob kind of made them more prophet-like, helping the island selflessly for whatever reason.

 

-What piece of the big puzzle does Richard Alpert play in all of this?

 

-How exactly does him and Jacob transport back and forth from off the island?

 

-So dogs also can be transported back thirty years huh? Not quite getting that. It was nice to see some sort of perhaps closure/final last scene with Bernard and Rose though, all canines aside.

 

-Significance of the picture of what appeared to be a dog laying on the floor in Jacob's cabin?

 

-And why exactly did they feel the need to burn the cabin down?

 

-So the supernatural events when Ben apparently "saw" Jacob was a catalyst to perhaps "releasing" this evil spirit, Jacob's foe? Notice the referencing of the coal line being cut in front of the cabin, or that perhaps may have meant that Jacob himself left the cabin and had to do such to leave it.

 

-Love the foreshadowing before Jacob talks to Locke (and appears to heal him) after the building fall - Everything That Rises Must Converge.

 

-Whats the significance of Jacob doing that rope harnassing stuff in the beginning of the episode? He said something about "it takes a long time to make a thread" so there may be some hidden meaning there. Any potential translation to anything written on the walls in there?

 

-I thought the Juliet flashback with the parents talking about "loving each other but not meant to be together" was awfully ironic and good storytelling to play into her big scene. It seemed to be the singular scene of the finale that didn't include Jacob in a significant flashback from off the island. Not sure if that means anything or not. Clearly, the theme of this show (or at least one of them) is that everyone, or least people who were in some way or form put on that island particularly (and not just by association, if that makes any sense) needs to fulfill a sort of destiny of sorts before they pass on (or in the least, make a significant choice) and her destiny appeared to be to be taken down into that hole or else the bomb would have never gone off and then what would have happened is anyone's guess. Now it appears by her doing that, she may have risked her life doing it, but ultimately saved the island from whatever was about to occur otherwise. Or, basically who really knows. That's the biggest question out of the finale - what exactly went down after that and how did it play into thirty years later. Incredibly well done cliffhanger when you think of all of the layers it encompassed in terms of how one event affects another in a different time. One thing I could see them doing in every episode next season is kind of "fulfill a destiny" of a major character in each show, much like kind of did with Juliet tonight (and perhaps Ben as well).

 

-Jacob right before he gets thrown into the fire - "They're coming..." Hmmm...

 

-How bout that Flash Forward teaser?

[Swindle 0]

-What "question" didn't the pilot answer right? And what is he a candidate for? I may have missed this in a previous episode.

 

“What lies in the shadow of the statue?” The question Ilana and her group have been asking. Richard answered it in Latin, … "Ille qui nos omnis servabit." Translation: "He who will save us all."

 

Candidate? Service to the island and Jacob, I'd suppose. He was suppose to pilot flight 815 if you recall his background from season4.

 

-And what exactly is this new groups' deal? Assuming they probably just work for Widmore and were contracted by him to be on that plane, since Widmore found out about it through Ellie Hawking, etc. Interesting to see, as someone said, how the Alana woman knew Jacob prior somehow, and apparently was near death, much like Locke was, when Jacob healed her up.

 

The flashback in a prior episode makes it clear when they tell Miles he shouldn't go to work for Widmore. Then we see Jacob visiting Ilana in a flashback. They work for Jacob. Reinforcements for Richard and the Others, maybe. They also expose Fake!Locke as, well, fake.

 

-What piece of the big puzzle does Richard Alpert play in all of this?

 

Interesting question. If he can see Jacob, if Ben, Widmore, past leaders didn't have real contact with Jacob, why isn't Richard the outright leader? I'd assume it plays into the experiments Jacob is conducting. He believes humanity can change. Richard is a go between to test people's faith? Ben obviously failed.

[goldengreek 0]

Just hard to wrap my mind around Jacob visiting all of our main losties at some point during their lives. If he knew, did he want to die? He certainly didn't seem to say anything to Ben to make him stop, when he very easily could have. It seemed that Jacob made a point to touch everyone he visited (I think--I'm blanking on whether or not he touched Sayid). I wonder if that's significant?

 

Add this to the never ending theories about Lost, but I have one for this. I think Jacob has visited everyone who has ever come to the island (Well, maybe not everyone, but the significant ones and then they probably brought some insignificant people along with them). When the man in black asks Jacob who were the people in the ship they saw off the coast and how they found the island, he answered himself saying it was Jacob who brought them here. Then he talks about how they'll do the same as everyone, come, fight, corrupt, destroy. Jacob declares this as progress and that it only "ends" once.

 

What I think is happening here is that Jacob has brought all these people to the island, the black rock, the Dharma Initiative, Desmond, other possibly castaways and most importantly the Oceanic flight 815 survivors. He brings them to the island by visiting them at very significant points of their lives, and influencing there fate to come to the island. The only difference with the Oceanic 815 guys is that everyone before them that he has brought to the island was progress, but these castaways are going the lead the "end" that he talks about.

 

I am also thinking that Not!Locke is like Ghost Christian. The real Locke and Christian are dead, but Not!Locke and Ghost Christian are manifestations of the island. However, Ghost Christian speaks on behalf of Jacob and I think Not!Locke speaks or acts on behalf of the evil part of the island. Whoever the man in black was, he got to possess Locke, while Jacob got Christian.

 

 

Christian was "the man in black" / Not!Locke . He is the one who told Locke he had to die and took Charlotte away.

 

He was appearing as Christian to set his plans in motion

[goldengreek 0]

-And what exactly is this new groups' deal? Assuming they probably just work for Widmore and were contracted by him to be on that plane, since Widmore found out about it through Ellie Hawking, etc. Interesting to see, as someone said, how the Alana woman knew Jacob prior somehow, and apparently was near death, much like Locke was, when Jacob healed her up.

 

They are with Jacob. Apostles if you will..

 

 

 

-So is the reason WHY they were destined to be on the island (perhaps not as a purpose to help anyone but just themselves) just simply from a cause of Jacob touching them at one point or another? That seems to be assumed reason how they all tie together as far as making it to the island at one point or another. It may be more complex than that or else maybe I'm just over analyzing it (which is probably more likely). What I mean is if Jacob hadn't had a connection/moment/etc when one of the characters was young (ie BEFORE they crash on the island the first time), does that mean that they were kind of drawn to the island accidentally (kind of like an accessory to the pre-destined fates already of people like Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet...) and as a followup to that, when Jacob then finally "touches" them, does that mean they are a sort of a "special" type with a particular purpose? Think of this in terms of how Jacob was with Locke when he fell out the window, the latino chick in the hospital near death, and Hurley running into Jacob in the cab after he got out of jail, and given the guitar, etc. This all probably makes no sense and wish I could explain it better, but I see there having to be a reason why Jacob met people in different certain times in their life and under different circumstances. For instance, I wonder if Kate was destined to the island just simply because she never stopped doing what Jacob told her not to when she was a kid. And Sawyer clearly destined to the island to get past his, well.....past. Then as far as Locke and Hurley, Jacob kind of made them more prophet-like, helping the island selflessly for whatever reason.

 

 

-How exactly does him and Jacob transport back and forth from off the island?

 

 

-So the supernatural events when Ben apparently "saw" Jacob was a catalyst to perhaps "releasing" this evil spirit, Jacob's foe? Notice the referencing of the coal line being cut in front of the cabin, or that perhaps may have meant that Jacob himself left the cabin and had to do such to leave it.

 

 

Ben never saw Jacob. He lied. I dont even think Ben ever knew about Not!Locke ( evil guy ).

 

Locke the idiot released the "evil" by cuting the circle of coal which I believe was ment to keep him trapped in the cabin.

 

[goldengreek 0]

I think Eloise and Widmore are aligned with this Man in Black--that's why she was adamant that they bring Locke's corpse with them on the plane.

 

I wondered about Ben's casually and sardonically revealing to John that he was a Pisces--then I remembered Jacob with the fish (a red herring, no less) at the beginning of the episode. Gutting a fish and throwing it on the fire/being gutted by a man under the sign of the fish and thrown on a fire...everything's connected.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

RedJed, Jacob wasn't harnessing rope in the beginning. He was spinning yarn, and then weaving it into the tapestry. My wife spins yarn, and that's the closest I've ever seen her get to a geekgasm.

[Ravenbomb 0]

-How bout that Flash Forward teaser?

 

Hica?