Michrome's article from the Observer

[Guest LuckyLopez]

I expect Shelley to be pulled soon enough.  Low Ki was never signed in TNA, as he was working Z-1 full time.  The jealous argument is based on hearsay, but it's pretty unanimous hearsay.  I mean, TNA even wanted to sign Joe to some meaningless program months ago just to take away ROH's champ.  There has always been a lot of anger in TNA when Daniels and Styles said they liked working ROH more.

 

Fair enough. Its not that I don't believe that that's the story you're unanimously told... and all the circumstancial evidence certainly backs the theory up, except for Shelley. If he disappears from ROH in the next few months or what have you than I'll probably stop straddling the fence pretty quickly. Especially if it comes down to a point where the only people working both shows are folks like Chad Collyer who have little worth to either company. As it is I have little doubt that TNA is capable of being that petty. And thanks for the clear up on Low Ki.

 

I don't see how it's valid.  They took talent off "because of Feinstein."  Now he's gone.  What's the issue?  Are you going to try to tell me that Jasmine, Ian, and others that TNA guys work for don't lie all the time?  Give me a break.  Banning all wrestlers from working for lying promoters is like banning all waiters from working for restaurants that serve food.

 

I'm not saying that. They asked something of ROH's offices... they believe that they were lied to. Even ROH's defenders generally concede that they were lied to (if for "necessary" or "good" reasons). So if they didn't want to do business with ROH on the grounds that they lied... well. Now, I'm definatelly with you that it seems like a somewhat stupid issue. And it might very well be an "ethic" that's broken regularly in this business... but TNA really is free to adopt the business practices it likes. If they want to not work with individuals who lie directly to them that's their perogative. I think it might be stupid, I think it might be short sighted, but I wouldn't call TNA anything more than stupid for doing it. Its NOT evidence that TNA's only motivation is jealousy... unless you want it to be enough to immediately presume guilt.

 

And to be fair, I have little doubt that lies are told to TNA from other companies/promotions... that wouldn't be the question. The question would be whether they were lies of the same magnitude or worth. The story goes that TNA was concerned with how Feinstein might hurt them. ROH assured them that he wasn't associated with them. ROH lied. So in that scenario ROH was willing to put TNA in a compromising position by lying. Or at least that's what the story would have us believe. Don't get me wrong, I think it the idea of ROH being financially culpable for any fallout sounded incredibly vague and like something that no sane businessman would ever sign. And I DO think that ROH probably did what they had to do to survive. And TNA could just be lying about it (or the guys who wrote about it) and really just be using it as a cover for their jealousy... but I won't presume guilt due to the absence of evidence.

 

Daniels in TNA pretty much is the equivalent of Whitmer in ROH.  He's in an uppercard tag team with a storyline, and once in a while he gets a big match, but he has no character development or any reason for people to care about him.

 

I don't know... I find that a pretty hard pill to swallow. Maybe its just that I don't observe ROH first hand as much as TNA but I find it hard to say that Daniels' worth to TNA is equal to Whitmer's worth to ROH... not to mention XXX's worth to TNA vs Maff & Whitmer's worth to ROH. With Daniels TNA has invested one of their top two tag teams (since their inception) which the division has been built on and a role player with a large enough profile that he has been regularly plugged into stories, feuds and matches to help them greatly (S.E.X., Ultimate X, World X Cup, etc). Can the same be said for Whitmer? I find it hard to believe that if Whitmer were absent from ROH 6 months ago that they'd have a hard time finding another nondescript personality with above average skill to round out 4 Ways, be fodder for Joe or be Daniels' lackey. Their places on the card are irrelevant since TNA does not use a traditional card and has never once held house shows, a ROH-like event or a traditional PPV. What's more, I wouldn't compare ROH's card to WWE's card since ROH's allows wrestlers to move up and down with greater ease based upon performances. Its not about where they are on the card... its about their worth to their respective companies. Daniels having a lower stature and worth than he should is different than him having a low stature and worth. His worth isn't obviouslly as high as Styles' is (at least his character's worth) but do we honestly feel its at Whitmer's worth to ROH?

 

There's no doubt that ROH was shady in the way they handled the situation.  Still, the goal was to get rid of Rob, and eventually they did that.  I'm very close to this situation because I have direct contact with workers involved.  I was repeatedly assured that Jarrett's intentions were only the best and that they would be allowed back when Feinstein was gone.  Over the last month, all of them have come to the realization that that just is not true. 

 

Finally, it's possible that this is all a big grand work.  Daniels, Styles, Sabin, Red, etc are all working their friends, families, etc in a big angle to come back to ROH.  If that's the case and people directly involved are keeping the best work ever a secret, then I'll happily look like a dumbass when it happens.  I have a very hard time believing that though, since Chris Daniels had no date last night because H2 cancelled and TNA wouldn't let him work ROH.

 

You know what? My apologies. That last bit definatelly came off more judgemental than I intended it to. Like I said, I have no doubt that you trust your sources and connections and that you are giving the story as you genuinely believe it to be. It wasn't meant to question your intentions or your integrity... just your tone. I never meant to insult you... hell, you're the guy who got me buying ROH tapes... so my apologies if I did.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Shouldn't Feinstein be in jail? Is a trial pending? What's the story?

[Guest LuckyLopez]

If I remember correctly the police were not involved with the pedophile sting. The reality is that he committed no crime at that time. In fact, the guys who set up the sting were probably closer to committing a crime than he was (fraud, libel, endangering the welfare of children). But in the end, besides the fact that its not illegal to talk to a kid or visit him, there was never actually a kid. So Feinstein was creepy, immoral and wrong... and raised questions as to past or future risk of criminal actions... but did nothing illegal during the much reported incidents.

[Guest Donners]

It's interesting how many articles on RoH, whether opinion pieces, reviews or "news" are written by fans of the company, unlike WWE and TNA. It's hard enough deciding what to believe without such a great potential for bias.

[Guest MikeSC]

It's interesting how many articles on RoH, whether opinion pieces, reviews or "news" are written by fans of the company, unlike WWE and TNA. It's hard enough deciding what to believe without such a great potential for bias.

But isn't anything written remotely negatively about TNA dismissed because the writer just "hates" them?

-=Mike

[Guest Donners]

Not at all.

 

Meltzer and Keller, for instance, frequently write some very negative things about TNA, but I don't think anyone's suggested that means they "hate" TNA. Indeed, that would be a quite silly point to make, as they often balance that with positive comments when the company does do things right. I don't always agree with them, but if they see fit to criticise something and argue it well, good on them.

 

However, when a person almost invariably takes the negative stance on a promotion (as with some posters), particularly when they appear to have the alterior motive of putting over another promotion (as with some columnists) then yes, their motivations and attitudes do need to be questioned.

[Guest Donners]

Incidentally, I find it rather odd that in an article that purports to explore the TNA/RoH relationship, there is not one mention of CM Punk - a TNA-contracted worker who has been used as one of the main draws for RoH recently.

 

If TNA were truly being the horrible nasty ogres that some try to portray them as, and were motivated purely to spite and damage RoH, he'd be jobbing to Monty Brown or part of Goldylocks' stable or some such - certainly not given TNA's blessing to work elsewhere while contracted.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

I think it was a good piece. When Meltzer puts something like that though on his site, it is now "his" if that makes any sense. I don't think he would have posted it if he didn't agree. I think it's pretty wussy of him though to have someone else (Mike) read TNA the riot act. If that's how he feels, and again I think it is because he wouldn't have posted it if he didn't, then he should have the balls to write that kind of viewpointish piece.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

Banning all wrestlers from working for lying promoters is like banning all waiters from working for restaurants that serve food.

 

I don't wanna get involved in any of the other stuff, but I gotta say - this is, bar absolutely none, the most ridiculous, illogical analogy I have ever read in my life.

[Guest MikeSC]

Incidentally, I find it rather odd that in an article that purports to explore the TNA/RoH relationship, there is not one mention of CM Punk - a TNA-contracted worker who has been used as one of the main draws for RoH recently.

 

If TNA were truly being the horrible nasty ogres that some try to portray them as, and were motivated purely to spite and damage RoH, he'd be jobbing to Monty Brown or part of Goldylocks' stable or some such - certainly not given TNA's blessing to work elsewhere while contracted.

Um, Donners, Punk isn't involved with TNA whatsoever. He made his choice between TNA and ROH.

 

It's not like TNA ever used him. He was a "Star" in ROH long before he was ever used in TNA.

-=Mike

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Banning all wrestlers from working for lying promoters is like banning all waiters from working for restaurants that serve food.

 

I don't wanna get involved in any of the other stuff, but I gotta say - this is, bar absolutely none, the most ridiculous, illogical analogy I have ever read in my life.

Well, considering it's been said that all promoters lie through their teeth...it makes sense.

[Guest Donners]

Incidentally, I find it rather odd that in an article that purports to explore the TNA/RoH relationship, there is not one mention of CM Punk - a TNA-contracted worker who has been used as one of the main draws for RoH recently.

 

If TNA were truly being the horrible nasty ogres that some try to portray them as, and were motivated purely to spite and damage RoH, he'd be jobbing to Monty Brown or part of Goldylocks' stable or some such - certainly not given TNA's blessing to work elsewhere while contracted.

Um, Donners, Punk isn't involved with TNA whatsoever. He made his choice between TNA and ROH.

 

It's not like TNA ever used him. He was a "Star" in ROH long before he was ever used in TNA.

-=Mike

Regardless, he was contracted to TNA until very recently, and as I understand it they had just the same right to keep him off RoH as they did with Daniels, Styles and co. Indeed, when TNA originally pulled people off RoH, Punk was one of the ones listed in most reports as being pulled, but after the Teddy Hart incident they simply decided not to use him (and no great loss, IMO).

[Guest MikeSC]

Incidentally, I find it rather odd that in an article that purports to explore the TNA/RoH relationship, there is not one mention of CM Punk - a TNA-contracted worker who has been used as one of the main draws for RoH recently.

 

If TNA were truly being the horrible nasty ogres that some try to portray them as, and were motivated purely to spite and damage RoH, he'd be jobbing to Monty Brown or part of Goldylocks' stable or some such - certainly not given TNA's blessing to work elsewhere while contracted.

Um, Donners, Punk isn't involved with TNA whatsoever. He made his choice between TNA and ROH.

 

It's not like TNA ever used him. He was a "Star" in ROH long before he was ever used in TNA.

-=Mike

Regardless, he was contracted to TNA until very recently, and as I understand it they had just the same right to keep him off RoH as they did with Daniels, Styles and co. Indeed, when TNA originally pulled people off RoH, Punk was one of the ones listed in most reports as being pulled, but after the Teddy Hart incident they simply decided not to use him (and no great loss, IMO).

And Punk made it abundantly clear that he'd work for ROH over TNA --- and you know he'd have had no problems taking TNA to court to get out of his contract. Good luck to TNA in fighting such a suit.

-=Mike

[Guest Donners]

I doubt RoH would want the aggravation of a contract issue with another company (particularly one with a significant financial backer) immediately after the Feinstein incident, when they already had more than enough to deal with. If TNA genuinely kicked up a fuss, the smartest move would be to tell him to just sit it out.

[Guest MikeSC]

I doubt RoH would want the aggravation of a contract issue with another company (particularly one with a significant financial backer) immediately after the Feinstein incident, when they already had more than enough to deal with. If TNA genuinely kicked up a fuss, the smartest move would be to tell him to just sit it out.

It wouldn't be ROH's call. It'd be Punk's. And it costs MUCH MORE to defend a suit than it costs to file one.

-=Mike