Did WWE create a monster?

[Guest Anglesault]

If Angle's recent games are because he got shafted to the midcard on occaision... Kane should have killed Vince by now.

 

Seriously.

See above. Kane never really hit that untouchable top level star where he wasn't going to be yo-yoed back down.

 

Even right now, do you, as a fan, see Kane as a guy who couldn't drop down and feud with Rhyno?

I don't think Angle couldn't drop down and feud with Cena. Even now, Angle is in the main events out of necessity. If Brock were still here, ten to one he'd be Champion.

Wasn't Taker was a' fixing to put Brock in his place?

 

I'd say Booker totally took over Brock's plans. Taker squash and Cena feud.

[iggymcfly 0]

The thing that people don't realize on here sometimes is that "playing politics" doesn't always equal "bad." The fact is that the typical wrestling fan is really sick of seeing people like JBL or even Eddie in the main event spot. What the show really needs is two credible stars battling, in order to give the WWE Title back the credibility that it's currently lacking.

 

Really, the only two people on Smackdown that have the main event credibility to actually give prestige to the title are Kurt Angle and the Undertaker. I can't imagine anyone else currently on the show who should main event Wrestlemania right now.

 

Regardless of what Kurt's motives may or may not be in demanding a showdown between him and Taker, what he's doing is what's ultimately best for the show.

[jester 0]

The thing that people don't realize on here sometimes is that "playing politics" doesn't always equal "bad." The fact is that the typical wrestling fan is really sick of seeing people like JBL or even Eddie in the main event spot. What the show really needs is two credible stars battling, in order to give the WWE Title back the credibility that it's currently lacking.

The problem is that once you justify one person's politics, you justify it for anyone, and anything goes.

 

I don't believe that the politicians in WWE always think to themselves "I am going to squash that guy's career! MWU HAHAHAHA!" They probably convince themselves they are really doing the right thing for the business, it just happens to benefit them.

 

What we really need is management that really listens to fans, and isn't afraid to tell the so called locker room leaders that it's their turn to job, and they better do it right and with a smile on their faces.

[Guest INXS]

I haven't heard ANYTHING about Kurt using any pull. Certainly in regards to having Eddie pushed down the card. Angle couldn't be any more of a team player.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

If Angle's recent games are because he got shafted to the midcard on occaision... Kane should have killed Vince by now.

 

Seriously.

See above. Kane never really hit that untouchable top level star where he wasn't going to be yo-yoed back down.

 

Even right now, do you, as a fan, see Kane as a guy who couldn't drop down and feud with Rhyno?

I don't think Angle couldn't drop down and feud with Cena. Even now, Angle is in the main events out of necessity. If Brock were still here, ten to one he'd be Champion.

Wasn't Taker was a' fixing to put Brock in his place?

 

I'd say Booker totally took over Brock's plans. Taker squash and Cena feud.

I say bullshit.

 

WWE had more faith in Brock than they EVER did in Angle, and with good reason. After Mania XIX, Angle is essentially wrestling on borrowed time, his promos have gone way downhill, and he's never been a name in the true sense. His best run in the company was his first title reign, and it's never quite been the same.

 

If Brock didn't leave they never would have created JBL to be top heel. Brock likely would have gotten the title right back at Great American Bash. And had a rematch with Taker.

 

This is of course speculation, but Brock has always been a favorite of Vince. To suggest he'd be dropped into the US title scene is idiotic by anyone in the IWC. If Brock stayed, Angle would be doing WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LAST YEAR and jobbing round the horn to Cena.

 

But hey, that might draw money, something Kurt Angle never did.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I haven't heard ANYTHING about Kurt using any pull. Certainly in regards to having Eddie pushed down the card. Angle couldn't be any more of a team player.

You obviously haven't been reading anything. Kurt using pull isn't new. He changed the booking for the Main Event of Vengeance (a PPV which featured one of the lowest buyrates that year, and ALSO saw Kurt Angle win the title. Coincedence?)

[Guest INXS]

I read everything going..most notably Observer, Torch and PWI as well as being fairly high up the ladder myself..

[Guest Anglesault]

I haven't heard ANYTHING about Kurt using any pull. Certainly in regards to having Eddie pushed down the card. Angle couldn't be any more of a team player.

You obviously haven't been reading anything. Kurt using pull isn't new. He changed the booking for the Main Event of Vengeance (a PPV which featured one of the lowest buyrates that year, and ALSO saw Kurt Angle win the title. Coincedence?)

The PPV where the title situation was like the third or fourth most important issue heading into the show?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I read everything going..most notably Observer, Torch and PWI as well as being fairly high up the ladder myself..

They all just had a story about Angle wanted to be "unstoppable" going into a Mania program with Taker.

 

Personally IWC feeling for Angle seems to be at an all time low, with his unwarranted induction into the WON HOF and his horrid term as SD GM.

[Guest Anglesault]

This is of course speculation, but Brock has always been a favorite of Vince.

So was Angle, apparently. The guy who routinely got dropped down.

 

And I guess you're assuming that Taker vs. brock after mania would be a hard fought feud with Taker just barely nudging a win out.

 

But hey, that might draw money, something Kurt Angle never did.

 

Something Angle was never put in any real position to do either. The PPVs that were booked around Kurt Angle aren't many.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I don't believe that the politicians in WWE always think to themselves "I am going to squash that guy's career! MWU HAHAHAHA!" They probably convince themselves they are really doing the right thing for the business, it just happens to benefit them.

As thunder echoes in the distance, Angle, HHH, Shane, and Undertaker convene at Vader's White Castle Of Doom (And Conference Center) to discuss their impending actions. Yes. All is going according to the master plan...

 

 

(thunder again)

[Promoter 0]

I'm a backer of Kurt Angle, but the truth is he IS over-rated(which doesn't mean he is not good). I think that column earlier in the thread told the truth. The fact of the matter is that Kurt Angle should have made a bigger impact on the business than he has. Guys, honestly look at his career. Vince gave him the golden push initially because he was an Olympic gold medalist. If it was anyone else most people would be calling his first year the push from hell. Vince knew his credibility would help his push though.

 

He comes in with an undefeated streak which is always a bonus. He captures the I-C title within months. Never loses that said title by clean pinfall and could claim he was the better man. By the end of the summer he is in the main event of the second biggest show of the year with the top storyline involving Triple H and Stephanie Mcmahonn. Now imagine if that booking was given to Jericho instead? How about Benoit? At the time they were much more seasoned for the push. As someone said Angle was booked better. The wwe put him into the mix to break up The Rock/HHH feud since Mania. He was thrown in as a distraction and to fit into the Olympics for the summer. It was timing why Vince did that angle and yes they did screw it up. If they had Angle take Stephanie and turn Triple H face the wwe could look very different right now. He was actually promoted for a little while as the champion defending against Austin at WM 17. It's no coincidence he kind of started to fit in as a main event type guy post Mania 17 with Benoit. Of course, they had to go screw it all up with the goody two shoes stone cold wannabe Angle crap later in the year.

 

Now, imagine if they had went with that where Austin had to turn heel to defeat Angle? Angle would most likely become a bigger draw and would actually mean a lot more for his rivalry with Brock Lesnar. I think Angle was a bit disappointing when it came to the dream match with Lesnar. It didn't live up to the hype. People were expecting Flair/Steamboat or Savage/Steamboat or at the very least Angle/Benoit(RR). Angle/Lesnar should have done much bigger business. I don't know if this was down to horrible booking or what, but the fact remained this was the time Angle and Lesnar should have revolutionized the business. I honestly think Angle's time to capture the imagination of the mainstream audience has been long gone. The wwe screwed up with Angle because he was very dumb to the business(he stated this himself on OTR when he was champion the first time). If Brock Lesnar comes back I believe he has the chance in what Angle could have been. Sure, people knock HBK for not drawing as champ in 1996, but he also kept the wwf afloat from the onslaught of the nWo(I mean HBK/Bret's rivalry was the big thing until Bret/Austin, but it still led back to Hart/HBK).

 

I mean, the wwe just could not compete at that time with wcw. I think some forget HBK was apart of the roots of the wwe's climb back to the top as well. He just bowed out right before things took off because of his injury. HBK imo is superior to Angle from his tag team days til his 1996 run. HBK it can be argued is better than Angle right now. However, I did remember people not liking the idea of the wwe keeping him as a main eventer full-time until he was capable of doing it. I think the jury is still out on Angle. I mean not jinx anyone, but look at Edge at the moment. They should not build with Angle period until they could see him performing at a real main event level. If he sustains all the way to Rumble then book him for the main event of Mania since they can go with different paths in Cena, Eddie, and Taker. I believe Eddie should go over this week if it is indeed the blow-off. Eddie needs the damn win. He has basically been jobbing ever since he defeated Angle at Mania. Angle has made him lose his title and also made him lose at SummerSlam. Angle going over makes no sense. If he is indeed asking management for Eddie to face Luther than have them feud over Luther costing Angle the match for Eddie. Have Angle then proceed against Taker for Survivor Series as someone stated and do the title match there. Then they can build the contenders in Cena, Eddie, or Taker and go with who's hot. It still leaves them open for the Rumble with the former GM and now champ against the men he has screwed. This unstoppable Taker vs. unstoppable Angle is a stupid move. What would they do after the match? Taker shouldn't lose that streak to Angle imo. With Eddie they can have him finally regain his title or have Cena go over Angle for his first title(yeah I know Cena needs to improve, but.....ORTON remember and he has heat when given good material to work with).

[Use Your Illusion 0]

I haven't heard ANYTHING about Kurt using any pull. Certainly in regards to having Eddie pushed down the card. Angle couldn't be any more of a team player.

You obviously haven't been reading anything. Kurt using pull isn't new. He changed the booking for the Main Event of Vengeance (a PPV which featured one of the lowest buyrates that year, and ALSO saw Kurt Angle win the title. Coincedence?)

The PPV where the title situation was like the third or fourth most important issue heading into the show?

That certainly was the case. On top of this, it had babyface Brock & babyface Angle (ugh) trying to resist BUTT-fucking one another while the only real man in the situation was someone who has never substantially been anything more than an over-rated big guy. It's no wonder that show bombed, despite the great quality of matches it put on.

 

It seems more and more likely on SD! that Eddie is just going to become the guy to 'establish' Luther Reigns, who Angle apparently loves at the moment. Luther is a great prospect, can cut a good promo and is decent in the ring. However, destroying what little credibility they have left in Eddie to make Luther more than what he is isn't the way to do it.

 

UYI

[Dark Age 0]

I haven't heard ANYTHING about Kurt using any pull. Certainly in regards to having Eddie pushed down the card. Angle couldn't be any more of a team player.

You obviously haven't been reading anything. Kurt using pull isn't new. He changed the booking for the Main Event of Vengeance (a PPV which featured one of the lowest buyrates that year, and ALSO saw Kurt Angle win the title. Coincedence?)

No he never. The rumour was that Kurt got Show added to the match so he didn't have to do the job. Of course, Kurt won the match so that's complete bullshit. And you also seem to forget that the Pay Per View was sold on MsManon/Gowen and McMahon/Sable. It's Kurt's fault that the show bombed? And most shows in 2003 drew jack, no one draws any more. Mainly because everyone who could have been worth a damn (Angle, Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Booker, RVD) were killed when they COULD have been made in to draws.

 

 

If Brock stayed, Angle would be doing WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LAST YEAR and jobbing round the horn to Cena.

 

But hey, that might draw money, something Kurt Angle never did.

 

SummerSlam 2000 drew a 1.4 buyrate. No Mercy 2000 had a 1.35 buyrate. Both of these shows were headlined by Angle (Angle vs Rock vs Triple H, Angle vs Rock). Both did better than Survivor Series 2000 (Austin vs Triple H). Unforgiven 2000 was sold heavily on Angle/Triple H, probably more than the main event. It did a 1.5 buyrate. Armageddon did a 1.15, higher than SS the previous month. NWO 2001 did a 1.6. JD00 and FL00 did 1.05 and 1.04. The buyrates went up IMMEDIATLEY after Angle was added to the main event. Keep in mind these two shows were headlined by Rock and/or Triple H, so don't put all the credit of SS, Unforgiven and NM down to them. Angle's main events also outdrew KOTR00 which featured Rock, Triple H, Kane and Undertaker. In 2001, as soon as Angle and Rock left the main events, the shows BOMBED. Headlined by Austin and Triple H. And they never recovered. That's not to say Angle was the cause of all this. He wasn't. However, he DID contribute to the buyrates. Kurt Angle HAS been a draw, however small.