How to stomp out a return...

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

Is it me, or has anyone else realized that the way to kill off a huge return is to put the guy/s on tv way before they are to return. We saw not only HBK, but the Big Show, both being hyped for a return and both are shown wearing a suit hyping the "smackdown your vote" thing. Is this a way to ruin the hyped up return or is there a good reason behind this?

[Guest Staravenger]

WWE trying to play the card of "We're entertainment and do real things like go to Republican conventions." To fans though, its beyond stupid since HBK was out with whatever the fuck Kane did to his throat, and on RAW he's perfectly fine. And Psycho Big Show being all nice and calm without a bear and grown out hair is weird to see.

[razazteca 0]

The way WWE is promoting the political conventions is as bad if not worst than what MTV has done at the Video Music Award show.

 

ITS OVERKILL AND STUPID.

 

Don't they know that 10-16 year old children can't vote!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

*video camera, first person view, of a car pulling up to a house*

 

*unidentified person gets out and walks up to the door and enters*

 

*camera goes down the hall, looking at various pictures on the wall that has Shawn Michaels & Family in them*

 

*Person goes to kitchen table, pulls up a list that says "Things to do".

 

- Republican National Convention

- Groceries (Beets, Waffles, Flatbread, Celery, Eggs, Milk...)

- Take son to little league

- Go to PTA meeting

- Gym

- Make time for the Wife

- Tape Dr. Phil

- Call up Ted for a prayer

- Mow Lawn / Water plants

- KILL KANE

- Pick up paint (white??)

- Paint fence

- Watch Tape of Dr. Phil

[The Niggardly King 0]

They also showed the back of Mark Henry's head.... I'm disappointed now the surprise is out of the bag

[The Tino Standard 0]

Pulling the "we're entertainment and we do real things like the RNC" card is especially stupid when they're trying to enforce kayfabe in public.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Henrys return is sooo easily to predict.

 

*Benoit is in the ring*

 

*Henry comes out*

 

King: Uh oh, Henry looks mad, JR.

JR: That's cause Benoit put him on the shelf for almost 8 months.

 

*15 seconds later*

 

King: Somebody should check on Chris Benoit

JR: Henry just KILLED him. WHATTA MONSTER!

King: The Worlds Strongest Man has just put the RAW superstars on notice!

JR: He just squashed tiny Chris Benoit like he was a bug!

 

*Benoit is shown getting carried out by the refs*

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Was anyone else hoping for some HLA between Linda McMahon and Laura Bush??

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

At least Show & HBK were dressed nicely. No fines here, boys!

[The Niggardly King 0]

Henrys return is sooo easily to predict.

 

*Benoit is in the ring*

 

*Henry comes out*

 

King: Uh oh, Henry looks mad, JR.

JR: That's cause Benoit put him on the shelf for almost 8 months.

 

*15 seconds later*

 

King: Somebody should check on Mark Henry

JR: Benoit just KILLED him. AGAIN!

King: The Rabid Wolverine just put everyone on notice!

JR: He just whipped Mark Henry like a government mule!

 

*Henry is shown lifeless in the ring*

That's the way it should happen. Henry comes back every few months just to get his ass kicked by Benoit

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Henrys return is sooo easily to predict.

 

*Benoit is in the ring*

 

*Henry comes out*

 

King: Uh oh, Henry looks mad, JR.

JR: That's cause Benoit put him on the shelf for almost 8 months.

 

*15 seconds later*

 

King: Somebody should check on Mark Henry

JR: Benoit just KILLED him.  AGAIN! 

*JR and King*: AHAHHAHAHAHHA

JR: Just kiddin!  The Worlds Strongest man just DESTORYED the Rabid Wolverine.

King: More like Rabid Pup!

JR: But seriously, let's wish our Former World Champion the best of luck in recovery.

King: He still has to face Stevie Richards next week on Heat!

*Benoit is shown lifeless in the ring*

You missed something

[Guest GreatOne]

Well if Vince wasn't going to give Edge an 'injury revenge' angle cause it was too boring and predictable, then he won't do that with Henry.

 

Of course he's still paying him X mil for the next two years but after his most recent run I suspect he's learned he can only go to the well so often.

 

Besides Henry/Big Show best of five who's up for it?

[Guest HeadDropMark]

Personally I appreciate segments like this. I think it shows a basic respect for fan intelligence. Something like SDYV segment is treated in the context of a 'real life' event, where the performers are real people who have lives and responsibilities outside the business, apart from their characters.

 

I always enjoyed the Iraq tribute segment where heel Big Show was shown emotionally saying "This is about one thing...supporting our brothers and sisters in Iraq." He came across as a genuinely nice guy/good person. I think showing something like this makes the audience appreciate him & others on a level that may not translate through matches/angles alone. That can't be bad for business.

 

It's an acknowledgment that the audience is intelligent enough to differentiate between performance and reality. Hopefully this 'respect' for fan intelligent will encourage Vince to in the future air things like the Ric Flair post Raw tribute. Strict kayfabe is not a necessity at all times.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

Personally I appreciate segments like this. I think it shows a basic respect for fan intelligence. Something like SDYV segment is treated in the context of a 'real life' event, where the performers are real people who have lives and responsibilities outside the business, apart from their characters.

 

I always enjoyed the Iraq tribute segment where heel Big Show was shown emotionally saying "This is about one thing...supporting our brothers and sisters in Iraq." He came across as a genuinely nice guy/good person. I think showing something like this makes the audience appreciate him & others on a level that may not translate through matches/angles alone. That can't be bad for business.

 

It's an acknowledgment that the audience is intelligent enough to differentiate between performance and reality. Hopefully this 'respect' for fan intelligent will encourage Vince to in the future air things like the Ric Flair post Raw tribute. Strict kayfabe is not a necessity at all times.

I mean, sure it's nice to see the wrestlers out there, trying to do the SDYV thing, but when the guy is hyped to come back in 2-3 weeks, it takes the steam right out of the comeback. If they got other people in there, say JBL for Smackdown and someone for Raw (having a hard time thinking here) it wouldn't be so bad. But when you take HBK and the Big Show, hype up their returns on the show then show them, what's the point of caring when they do come back?

[Guest HeadDropMark]

I understand your point and even as an ideal somewhat agree with it. It's just that I personally don't need a consistent veil of kayfabe to be entertained by the storylines. At this point I've given up on expecting consistency in content. I think WWE trains it's audience time and time again NOT to have expectations for consistency or logic.

 

Running angles such as Kane getting knocked into a flaming dumpster or HHH having his car dropped from 20 feet in the air without severe consequences in effect conditions the audience NOT to expect coherent presentation in their storylines. At this point I just accept it for what it is.

 

I remember years ago (I think 1986) Ricky Steamboat appeared as a guest star on a television show after supposedly having his larynx crushed by Randy Savage. He spoke and acted normally throughout the show. At the very same time, the WWF shows featured all the strict kayfabe selling of Steamboat needing 'rehabilitation' to get his speaking abilities back...if ever at all.

 

Now granted it wasn't on the show WWF show itself, yet WWF DID promote the appearance and it was running concurrent with the injury angle and was a clear contradiction (which was a no-no back then). Yet despite this I remember my friends and I all seeing the blatant contradiction and just not caring. It didn't stop us from caring about the Savage/Steamboat angle because it was presented so well in spite of all this. It didn't stop us from investing emotionally because we liked the story and wanted to suspend disbelief.

 

If HBK/Big Show are presented in a way I find entertaining upon their returns than that's fantastic. If not...I'll survive. Regardless, seeing them in segments like this before their returns really doesn't effect me one way or the other.

 

For better or for worse, most of my more 'casual' wrestling friends have pretty much the same views, with their expectations for continuity virtually non-existent, yet still enjoying it for what it is.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

I guess it's true to see that the WWE has pretty much told people not to believe everything they see, such as Paul Bearer being buried in cement (since it never really happened). But I'm just complaining about the mystique that the wrestler/s would have for not being seen for so long, that's what makes the hype that much better.

[Dandy 0]

Anybody have a pic of Big Show from that segment? I missed it. Thanks in advance.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The one thing HBK and Show had going for them was the "Hey, I haven't seen them in a while"/Big Return Pop, that was completely ruined by having them on TV at the Convention. For that alone, it was a dumb move to do. BUT, they also were/are running a big revenge angle with Michaels and Kane - if Shawn isn't mad or is dying for revenge and is generally "ok", then why should we -the fans- be mad, or want to see him get revenge? They fucked up big time, no excuses.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

The one thing HBK and Show had going for them was the "Hey, I haven't seen them in a while"/Big Return Pop, that was completely ruined by having them on TV at the Convention. For that alone, it was a dumb move to do. BUT, they also were/are running a big revenge angle with Michaels and Kane - if Shawn isn't mad or is dying for revenge and is generally "ok", then why should we -the fans- be mad, or want to see him get revenge? They fucked up big time, no excuses.

So true, so very, very true

[Guest GreatOne]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there some heat WWE's way for Taker and Kane not being on the Raw Is Owen show for the same 'kill the character' reason?

 

This seems like, no it is, nitpicking, I mean folks it's not like the Big Show is going to form the new NWO on Smackdown or Shawn is going to reform DX on RAW. Besides we're talking more or less WWE commercials, not angles themselves, and both had already anounced as coming back anyway so what's the big deal? Having them in a WWE ad isn't going to kill their gimmick.

 

Some of you people, sheesh. You piss and moan about 'all kayfabe all the time' (see dress code whining) then the few times they don't it's 'oh they're killing these guys!'.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The one thing HBK and Show had going for them was the "Hey, I haven't seen them in a while"/Big Return Pop, that was completely ruined by having them on TV at the Convention. For that alone, it was a dumb move to do. BUT, they also were/are running a big revenge angle with Michaels and Kane - if Shawn isn't mad or is dying for revenge and is generally "ok", then why should we -the fans- be mad, or want to see him get revenge? They fucked up big time, no excuses.

Shawn, yes. Show, no. He has more value and can fill the much needed monster heel role that Smackdown desperately needs right now. Show's value is more long-term than Shawn's is and they didn't lose as much by not making it a surprise.

[Guest GreatOne]

The whole prior announcement vignette would seem to counteract the whole 'surprise' thing, unless you assume WWE marks have such a memory deficit that they don't even remember eight weeks back, so the fault would lie on them announcing it beforehand, not Michaels/Big Show being in a campaign ad, having nothing to do with the actual show, and storylines, whatsoever.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I never once used the word "surprise". Perhaps if you go around and select "s" "u" "r"... from other words that I did use, then maybe you'd find "surprise", but until then, lets focus on what I *did* say, which was "Hey, I haven't seen them in a while"/Big Return Pop. You know those things - even Billy Gunn got one - and they are a sure-thing in wrestling. By having HBK and Big Show appear on WWE tv, it kills any sense of that. How is there any debating this? There shouldn't be discussion here. It was a stupid, thoughtless, typical WWE thing to do.

 

And nothing says "unstoppable monster" like "c'mon guys, you gotta vote!"

[JustJoe2k5 0]

Wrestling's fake, I thought everyone knew that. Guess I was wrong.

[Guest Loss]

I thought hyping HBK's return was a mistake in the first place. I don't know that the "surprise pop" was really necessary, but had he not been mentioned or seen on TV since the original injury angle, what happened this past Monday night would have been fine.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

I know this sounds kind of stupid and yet the kayfabe rule seems broken yet again, but here goes.

 

If it is true, when HBK was taken out of action by Kane, was it not said that his voiced was damaged or his throat was screwed up? And of course, it was no sold. I mean, even Josh Matthews, Mr. Tough Enough Welfare, was wearing a freaking neckbrace on Byte This, an internet show where he's not even seen! Another small fact to shell out, unlike Big Show, where the surpirse of what he looked like was all people have, but of course, just two words and eights letters when it comes to the Big Show.....

 

Who Cares?

[jester 0]

There's a big difference between showing a pre-taped segment with HBK and him popping up a the arena live. He'll get a nice pop. I hate the little fucker, but even I will acknowledge that he'll get cheered.

 

As for the throat injury, it has had time to heal. It will however look stupid if he returns with some kind of neck brace. Unless he then reveals he was faking to surprise Kane.