When did Vince McMahon lose touch with reality?

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

Vince lost touch around early 1991 and it has been all down hill since.

 

Key moments when Vince "lost touch":

 

Pushing The Ultimate Warrior as champion

 

Deciding that almost every wrestler from 1991-1996 had to be some sort of cartoon character

 

Pushing Kevin Nash as Champion

 

Letting Vince Russo turn his company into a Jerry Springer like show

 

Putting on 12 PPV's a year with each having little build-up to create interest

 

Letting his kids become on-air talent

 

Killing off WCW as a brand and instead went with RAW vs. Smackdown

 

Letting Stephanie become head writer

 

Hiring failed sitcom writers

 

I could go on but we all know the rest.

[what 0]

Letting Vince Russo turn his company into a Jerry Springer like show

 

Putting on 12 PPV's a year with each having little build-up to create interest

Being out of touch has made him a billionaire then, I guess.

[CanadianChick 0]

Creatively, as mentioned many-a-times, Steph leading the team is such a bad idea on many levels. For one, she's a woman whereas the majority of the WWE audience is men.

 

See, being a woman isn't a problem. It's her obsession with catering to women with her crappy soap opera storyline and love triangles.

 

I don't think Steph realizes what type of girls watch wrestling. It's tomboys that usually watch wrestling, or girls who oogle at hot guys. The latter doesn't need to be catered, because the hot guys are always there, no matter the storyline. The other group of girls, the tomboys, want role models. Why was Lita so popular before this storyline? Because she was a role model to girls. You don't have to be a damsel in distress! You can hang with the guys (with Lita always interfering in the Hardy's matches) and take it as well as you dish it out! You don't have to be big boobed, blond hair, and blue eyes to be considered hot! Yes, Lita sucks, and we all know that, but she was a good role model to young women. Right when she became the damsel in distress, her popularity waned. Why? Because she lost that appeal.

 

The only females who would watch wrestling for a love triangle are middle aged women who will turn off the TV once the angle is played out. Are those the fans that have to be catered to? Why would WWE even WANT that audience? And even if they did, are three love triangles in the past year or so on the same freaking show (Trish/Jericho/Christian, Lita/Kane/Matt, Stacy/Test/Steiner) really necessary, or smart? NO, it isn't.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I agree with 99% of that, the 1% being the See, being a woman isn't a problem part. The rule is Women Shouldn't Write Wrestling. I am sure there is an exception to that rule, but the rule is still a good one. But good job. You hit the nail right on the head in that regard. Steph keeps trying to recreate Savage/Elizabeth and doesn't realize that what makes Savage/Elizabeth(/Hogan) so special was that it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing; there wasn't any other love triangles that were being done at the time or at any time before or after it was done. There have been more Love Triangles since Steph has been involved with the WWE (from Test/Steph-on) than there have been before 1999.

 

Excellent Point. Great stuff. I am very, very impressed. I wish to read more of your throughts in the up-coming weeks and months ahead.

 

*sees who wrote it*

 

AW You ain't nothin but a girly gurl! Get outta here with your barbie doll opinions and leave the big time wrestling talk to the real men!

[Gary Floyd 0]

When did Vine officially lose it? There are so many speculations

 

 

* Royal Rumble '94: The whole Undertaker vs. Yokozuna fiasco.

 

* The "New" Razor and Diesel

 

* The "Billionaire Ted" sketches. Sure, they started out amusing, but went down quicker than Steph on HHH.

 

* Bringing the Ultimate Warrior back.

 

Really folks, the possibilites are endless.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think Vince never "had it", so he could never have "lost it". The majority of the times Vince showed he lost it are just things that Vince has always done and believed in. If he sees something successful on one level, he will try it again and again and again on other levels in hopes that it will duplicate the success of the original.

[Kizzo 0]

I think Vince never "had it", so he could never have "lost it".  The majority of the times Vince showed he lost it are just things that Vince has always done and believed in.  If he sees something successful on one level, he will try it again and again and again on other levels in hopes that it will duplicate the success of the original.

 

I will agree with some of that.....

 

But I think he is open to change...he did hire an all Hollywood writing team in the past and he DID promote a magazine writer to head his creative team.....

of course some probaly looked down on that....but he did it anyway....

 

Right now he is out of touch...but all he has to do is be willing to open his ears like he has done in the past...and great things will come...

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

Personally I just don't see how hiring an all Hollywood writing team is such a great thing. Of course this topic has been debated time and time again, but I think the "Hollywood writers" has hurt the product more than they have helped.

 

You can have only so many poorly written/excuted backstage skits and storylines before fans start to turn on the product. And this has been the case the past several years. And I believe these "Hollywood writers" are a big factor in this.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The purpose of hiring Hollywood writers is that they have proven they can write for television (which is how RAW and Smackdown are scripted), that they can be given an idea and elaborate and put it on paper, and they prove they can write for long periods of time. Whereas hiring other wrestlers as writers, you won't get those proven skills. I can understand why Hollywood writers are hired, but I do not think they are needed for writing a wrestling show.

[Kizzo 0]

Personally I just don't see how hiring an all Hollywood writing team is such a great thing.  Of course this topic has been debated time and time again, but I think the "Hollywood writers" has hurt the product more than they have helped.

 

You can have only so many poorly written/excuted backstage skits and storylines before fans start to turn on the product.  And this has been the case the past several years.  And I believe these "Hollywood writers" are a big factor in this.

 

Actually I think there are only 2 Hollywood writers left(most have quit).....Gerwitz on RAW and Dave Lagana on Smackdown...the rest have been in the wrestling business and are now apart of creative.....

 

The purpose of hiring Hollywood writers is that they have proven they can write for television (which is how RAW and Smackdown are scripted), that they can be given an idea and elaborate and put it on paper, and they prove they can write for long periods of time. Whereas hiring other wrestlers as writers, you won't get those proven skills.

 

True...that's why I think "wrestling writers" should not write a T.V. show like RAW or Smackdown...unless they change the format....or edit it a little bit...

 

I can understand why Hollywood writers are hired, but I do not think they are needed for writing a wrestling show.

 

Are u saying that Hollywood writers shouldn't being part of wrestling period and just stay in Hollywood....

 

THAT I do not agree with....they can bring in alot of casual viewers....which has been proven in the past..

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

Maybe it is time for a new format for RAW, because the fact that it has become a "TV show" (and has been for too long) instead of a wrestling show is one of the reasons that I have lost almost all interest in it. I haven't watched a full episode of RAW for about 2 months.

 

Maybe I'm not the only one. Of course I think WWE needs to go back to putting more focus on getting house show attendance up and put out a better quality product, rather than worry about what segments get ratings points, and try to be something their not like a "reality TV show".

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think the only role a Hollywood writer should play in the WWE is as a consultant. A writer who knows the current trends and styles in television/film/entertainment that could keep the WWE up-to-par in terms of content and visuals. I think part of the reason the WWE was successful in the late 90's was because they were part of a wave of sleaze-tv that was the hot shit for a period of time, and when that wave died down the WWE was so firmly entrenched in that style that they could not change with the times. That's a typical Vince-thing and it would be nearly impossible to tell him otherwise. Coincidentally (or not), the one person who could tell him otherwise but never would -Steph- was put in charge of the writing team when that change was needed.

[Kizzo 0]

Ravishing you seem to forget that an all Hollywood team booked 2000....which of course was the most sucessful year WWE ever had....when it came to numbers...

 

Plus I fell in love with the storylines...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't doubt the success they had under that system then (ok, I do, but that's another story), but times have changed -even in four years- and they clearly are not having that success with that system now.

[Kizzo 0]

I don't doubt the success they had under that system then (ok, I do, but that's another story), but times have changed -even in four years- and they clearly are not having that success with that system now.

Times have changed....I concur

 

But lets not forget...the writers who were part of that specific "system" are no longer part of it......you can't drive a vehicle with out the keys to the ignition because you will not have sucess(well you could but that's beside the point)

[Guest Loss]

I think it's easy to forget that wrestling is as much a character-driven business than anything. HHH, The Rock, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian, the Hardy Boyz, the Dudley Boyz, Commissioner Mick Foley and Lita were all red hot characters that caught on at the same time. Plus, the wrestling was so much better than it had been the previous two years without losing any of the atmosphere or magic the Attitude era had, and I think that's why that year was such a success.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

IMO Vince "lost it" when he was doing the XFL. I think from that point on he stopped listening to what the fans were saying, and more ofter than not went against what they were saying. The XFL got such bad reviews that he turned inwards and stopped listening to anything from the outside and only listened to the yes-men that work for him.

 

The other big problem is that he's almost 60 and he's writing TV for people more than half his age, thats ass backwards. He doesn't know what kids want anymore than I know what 75 year old women are interested in. What he needs are some people who are younger, have their ear to the street so to speak and have a background in wrestling and know what it takes to write for wrestling fans.

 

Stephanie shouldn't be in charge because she's a woman. Women bring a different slant to issues, but their audience is largely male, and thats who they should be catering to. I mean I remember when they had Steph as GM and she would talk down to some of the boys, that aint right. But who is going to argue with her?

 

Both times when business took off it was because Vince was desperate and was willing to listen to any new ideas and give them a shot. But when he gets successful nobody speaks up against the status quo and as a result business goes in the toilet. The unfortunate thing about the current scene is that the company is still really profitable and there isn't another company out there making him look foolish. So there's less urgency to make major changes.