Nadar might hurt your chances?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

OMG LEFT-WING IN-FIGHTING! THE FOUNDATION IS CRUMBLING!

 

Er, I don't care -- those far-sighted Jews will just vote for another candidate instead of Kerry and blame it on Rove...

[EricMM 0]

Seriously. Anyone who is going to bitch about Bush being in the war ought to be voting Green or Reform, NOT Kerry.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Go back into your enviro-friendly corner, hippie. I want to see Mike and Tyler duke it out some more.

 

Oh, and which "Reform Party" is Nader with now? The 2000 Pat Buchanan Reform Party, or that other stupid hippie party who was fighting for public funds and lost?...

[Guest Loss]

Well, John Kerry just lost my vote. Looks like I'm voting for Nader.

[2GOLD 0]

In Idaho Nader was forced off the ballot after the Democratic Party claimed his signatures were false and invalid. Luckily someone in the party checked and it turned out, well his signatures were NOT invalid.

 

He's back on the ballot now and Florida is sounding like another situation were the Democratic Party is pulling an Idaho.

 

Or maybe, explain THIS one

 

---

 

Nader criticizes Democrats, vows to make state ballot

 

Vowing that he would be on the presidential ballot in Wisconsin, Ralph Nader (news - web sites) sharply criticized Democrats for attempting to kick him off.

 

During a campaign stop at the Milwaukee Press Club Wednesday afternoon, Nader said Democrats have spent a lot of money challenging his attempts to run for president in what he called "the most systematic, deliberate, Jim Crowism assault by the Democratic Party . . . to keep us off the ballot."

 

In Wisconsin, Nader submitted 4,000 signatures, double the amount needed, but state Democrats are objecting to what they say are inconsistencies. Nader got 3.6% of the vote in the state in 2000 and said he was confident he will be on the ballot.

 

Nader vows to make ballot

---

 

 

Ok, so where the hell is he wrong in Wisconsin? Why are they suing him there? They are basically accusing Ralph Nader of cheating. I mean, give me a break. I will not be one bit shocked if this is the same thing happening in Florida. The Democrats are suing not because he HAS enough signatures, but because they think he is faking signatures.

 

So where is the fairness in this? I'm going to go through and check every state Nader is being sued in by the Democrats to see who is really playing by the rules.

[Guest Loss]

If Nader was allowed to participate in the debates, he'd probably get more of the popular vote than Kerry at this rate.

[2GOLD 0]

High Court Will Take Up Nader Case

 

TALLAHASSEE - The state Supreme Court has ordered Florida elections officials to stop shipping absentee ballots until justices determine the politically charged status of Ralph Nader in the presidential race.

The ruling came hours after a Leon County circuit judge ordered Nader off the ballot and told elections supervisors who had already shipped ballots with his name to send ``corrected'' ballot forms excluding Nader.

 

The Supreme Court is to take up the case Friday morning. The legal wrangling raises the specter that Florida courts could once again play a significant role in the outcome of a U.S. presidential election.

 

Wednesday's initial ruling came during a hearing before Circuit Judge Kevin Davey on the legitimacy of the Reform Party and its effort to get Nader onto the Florida ballot.

 

Lawyers and other participants painted the case as one of ballot integrity versus the right to access by minor parties. But the underlying battle is between Democrats who want Nader off the ballot and Republicans who want him on. Both major parties believe the consumer advocate would siphon votes from Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic candidate for president, in a state that was decided by 537 votes in 2000.

 

Polls indicate that this year's race between Kerry and President Bush is also extremely close.

 

The Democratic Party filed suit Sept. 2 after the Reform Party claimed it had nominated Nader at a convention in August. With such a party affiliation, Nader would not have to collect thousands of petition signatures to get on the Florida ballot, but the Democrats and other plaintiffs called the nomination fraudulent.

 

Since then, the legal posturing has escalated.

 

* On Sept. 9, Davey originally struck Nader from the ballot after two days of testimony on the Reform Party's status and details of its nominating process. But the judge agreed to take additional testimony this week.

 

* On Monday, Florida Secretary of State Glenda Hood filed an appeal, which had the effect of lifting Davey's order. Davey was out of town and unable to immediately respond. Infuriating Democrats, Hood instructed county elections supervisors to include Nader on absentee ballots that had to be mailed by Saturday's deadline.

 

* With his second order Wednesday, Davey issued a strong rebuke of Hood's instructions, ordering supervisors who had already mailed ballots with Nader's name to send new, valid ballots without the Reform ticket. He also said a new mailing should include ``a clear written notice indicating that the previous ballot did not comply with the requirements of Florida law.''

 

* Hood's lawyers instantly appealed to the Supreme Court just a block away from Leon County Circuit Court, and within hours, the high court justices said Hood should instruct supervisors to ``desist from mailing ballots to voters pending further order of this court.''

 

At Least 4 Counties Shipped Ballots

 

Hood did so late Wednesday, although at least four counties had already shipped ballots with Nader's name included.

 

Hood said she believed her appeal had helped to ``force finality to the issue. It forced the court to deal with this more quickly.''

 

About 25,000 overseas military ballots must be mailed by Saturday. Ronald Labasky, a lawyer for the state's county- based supervisors of elections, said most counties have printed two sets of ballots, with and without Nader's name, and are awaiting guidance.

 

With a Supreme Court ruling Friday, ``I think it's probably going to work out fine with most of the counties,'' Labasky said. However, western Panhandle counties affected by Hurricane Ivan ``may have a problem now.''

 

Republican Criticizes Hood

 

The legal back-and-forth has frustrated many elections supervisors.

 

``I just sent an e-mail to my fellow election supervisors that we have to have a sense of humor,'' said Okaloosa County Supervisor Pat Hollarn, a Republican. ``It's out of our hands.''

 

Hollarn said that after reviewing the Democrats' suit, she ``gambled with a non-Nader ballot and rushed it to the printer earlier this week.''

 

She criticized Hood, who was appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush, for taking sides in the issue. ``The manipulation of the electoral system is going to lead to its veritable destruction,'' Hollarn said.

 

That theme of overt partisanship also came up in court Wednesday. When a lawyer for Hood insisted the Department of State had no position on Nader, Davey retorted from the bench: ``They really do have a position, don't they? Hasn't that fact been made perfectly clear?''

 

Meanwhile, Reform Party backers assailed Democrats for filing the lawsuit.

 

``This smoke-and-mirrors strategy by the Democratic Party has created this judicial chaos that we're seeing,'' said Patrick Slevin, spokesman for the Reform Party. ``All we can do is roll with the punches and see where this goes.''

 

High Court takes case

 

----

 

 

HE doesn't need the signatures according to Florida rules, so why in the hell is he off the ballot? Nader and the Reform Party ARE playing by the rules, it's just the Democratic Party doesn't like the rules.

 

And they sued him in Washington with no grounds to sue. He's been following the rules just fine. This is a joke. The same goes for Colorado, where the Democratic Party is claiming he's not even a real candiate and should be removed because they don't like the way he was approved to be part of the election.

 

What's next? Claiming he's a witch and his black magic should not be allowed?

[EricMM 0]

This just makes the Dems look so bad. SO bad.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Heck, I'd like to see him on the ballot everywhere. Let Kerry feel the Perot Effect, especially if Nader gets made into some kind of martyr by the national media for his small-party struggle to get on the ballot.

[teke184 0]

Heck, I'd like to see him on the ballot everywhere. Let Kerry feel the Perot Effect, especially if Nader gets made into some kind of martyr by the national media for his small-party struggle to get on the ballot.

If this case gets enough press, a LOT of states may put Nader on the ballot.

 

 

Given that the Kerry campaign is disintegrating before our eyes, I could see a lot of left-leaning voters deciding to vote for Nader in order to get him the 5% he needs for matching funds in the next election.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

If Nader was allowed to participate in the debates, he'd probably get more of the popular vote than Kerry at this rate.

Of course every time Nadar's time for a speech would expire, he'd whine about how the Big Corporations are holding him down...

[2GOLD 0]

Heck, I'd like to see him on the ballot everywhere.  Let Kerry feel the Perot Effect, especially if Nader gets made into some kind of martyr by the national media for his small-party struggle to get on the ballot.

If this case gets enough press, a LOT of states may put Nader on the ballot.

 

 

Given that the Kerry campaign is disintegrating before our eyes, I could see a lot of left-leaning voters deciding to vote for Nader in order to get him the 5% he needs for matching funds in the next election.

 

Well CNN is now covering it, and FOX NEWS is definately covering it. If Nader gets on television and starts informing the public, we could be in for an interesting little situation.

 

And did all the smart Democrats in charge of campaigns leave with Clinton? I mean, the last two elections by the Democratic party have been so poorly ran that it's went from sad to pathetic to down right shameful.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Those Dems in charge of Clinton's campaigns are now a decent part of the Kerry/Dem leadership. Problem is America's Vietnam War Hero is no Bubba...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

The Nader rule is still in effect for Polls.

 

If the poll has Nader with 3% or more, it's bullshit.

 

Nader still isn't on any more than 30 ballots, if I recall correctly. Nader is also 70 years old and unlikely to run in 2008. As for 5%.. who gets those matching funds anyways? Nader is running basically as an independent.

 

If Ralph wanted to get on the ballot by himself in Florida, he should have found enough supporters (that voted for him in 2000 or Republicans) to get on the ballot.

 

He failed to do that.

 

The Reform Party is not a major party any more. They only have ballot access in 6 states and the party is pretty much dead.

 

Although, you'd think that having Nader on the ballot in Idaho wouldn't hurt, since Idaho has never been a swing state. Anybody care to wonder why Democrats have a grudge against Nader? Basically, he was pretty much a useful idiot that indirectly helped Bush. Same goes for Zack de la Rocha, Michael Moore and others.

 

But, I guess among you chicken littles, Saint Ralph doesn't have to follow election laws.

 

And.. Perot effect?

 

Not fucking likely..

 

Ross Perot, even after dropping out of the race for a few months, could still get 19%

 

Ross Perot, even in 1996, got 8%

 

Ross Perot, if he ran today, would beat Ralph Nader.

 

The best shot that Nader has of getting a Perot effect is if he shrinks suddenly.

[2GOLD 0]

So because he doesn't have a chance, he should just be removed so everyone HAS to vote for John Kerry?

 

Is that how the election system works now? We don't like you might hurt our chances, so we should be allowed to lie and sue you for no reason other than to drain your funds so people will vote for us.

 

Nothing can justify what the Democrats are doing.

 

Also, Nader IS following the rules. The ones not following the rules are the Democratic Party. This isn't a case of Ralph being allowed to run without following the rules of the state he is on the ballot for.

 

They sued him Nevada, they lost. They sued him in Colorado, they lost. They sued him in Idaho, they have lost. They sued him in Wisconsin, they lost. Why? Because they didn't HAVE anything to stand on and are claiming he is a cheater when he's not cheating.

In Flordia, he doesn't need the signatures according to the state law because of the time of his nomination. Which if the Supreme Court has a working brain will realize.

 

The Democratic Party has just become extremely paranoid about everything and thinks the whole country is out to cheat them.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

So because he doesn't have a chance, he should just be removed so everyone HAS to vote for John Kerry?

No.. because he DIDN'T FOLLOW THE ELECTION LAWS

 

What happens to you when you don't follow the rules? You're not rewarded for that.

 

Is that how the election system works now? We don't like you might hurt our chances, so we should be allowed to lie and sue you for no reason other than to drain your funds so people will vote for us.

 

It sounds like your mind is made up. I'd imagine Nader's shot is questionable, unless there really is a "Republicans for Nader" movement.

 

2000 Nader would crush 2004 Nader.

 

Part of it is just vengence for 2000.

 

If the philosophy was "get rid of competition", then I guess the media has ignored the efforts to keep David Cobb off of the ballot. I guess the Democrats probably kidnapped the Worker's World Party candidate.

 

Nothing can justify what the Democrats are doing.

 

I must have forgotten the amendment that says a candidate has a right to disregard rules.

 

Since it's disenfranchising and all.

 

Also, Nader IS following the rules. The ones not following the rules are the Democratic Party.

 

Sure, in most of the states. We salute Ralph Nader for that. It's just that he doesn't have the signatures to get on the ballot in Florida, and the Reform Party is pretty much dead.

 

Can you tell me where the Democrats aren't following the law, at least when it comes to filing?

 

This isn't a case of Ralph being allowed to run without following the rules of the state he is on the ballot for.

 

I guess that "Reform party isn't major" stuff was a distraction from the vast left wing conspiracy against Saint Ralph.

 

They sued him Nevada, they lost. They sued him in Colorado, they lost. They sued him in Idaho, they have lost. They sued him in Wisconsin, they lost.

 

This might be asking a bit much.. was it lawsuits, or challenges, to Nader himself, or to the signatures.

 

You can see why the Democrats would be pretty freaking harsh on Ralph, right?

 

Why? Because they didn't HAVE anything to stand on and are claiming he is a cheater when he's not cheating.

 

I'm not totally sure what party, if any, you're with.. but here's a secret...

 

both parties have been pulling this stuff for awhile.

 

The Democrats in 2004 didn't invent challenging signatures against St. Ralph

 

And yeah, Ralph isn't cheating in the case of the Reform party not being major. He went "endorse-ment" shopping, and only got the Reform carcass.

 

In Flordia, he doesn't need the signatures according to the state law because of the time of his nomination. Which if the Supreme Court has a working brain will realize.

 

http://www.ballot-access.org/2004/electoral.html

 

93,024 signatures to be an independent candidate (which Ralph could be, without the Reform party)

 

We'll have to see if a party with ballot access in 6 states, no real state organizations and so on, can be called a major party, or an organized party.

 

The Democratic Party has just become extremely paranoid about everything and thinks the whole country is out to cheat them.

 

Can't blame them for not liking Ralph.. what did he ever do to hurt them?

[Dr. Tom 0]

And.. Perot effect?

 

Not fucking likely..

 

Ross Perot, even after dropping out of the race for a few months, could still get 19%

Let me explain how I mean "Perot Effect." I don't mean that Nader would get 19% of the vote. He'd be lucy to get 1/10 of that. By the "Perot Effect," I meant the independent candidate who is a latecomer to the ballot (covering Perot's "I will return as your servant" crap and Nader's late struggles) and manages to leech enough votes from a candidate to swing the election. Obviously, Perot got a large figure in 1992 that Nader has no prayer of matching, but it's obvious to me that, if Perot never returns to the race, Clinton doesn't get elected that first time. Perot picked up some Independents and a few Democrats, sure, but he cost Bush I a LOT of votes. If Nader can have even 1/10 that impact on Kerry, I'm all for it. If things go as they are now, I don't expect Bush will need the help, but it'd be nice to have it there anyway.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

The whole "LOL I THOUGHT YOU WERE AGAINST THE WAR. VOTE NADER." shit is hilarious.

 

Yes, I'll vote Nader, whose economic proposals are a joke and the entire point of his running is an ego trip.

 

What's the point? He's NOT going to get 5%, and I'm not sure I want him to. I'd much rather vote Green than Nader, but quite frankly, I have my choice between voting in two swing states (PA or VA). I DO NOT want Bush to get a second term. So BRB, yeah, I'll be voting Nader!!!!!!!!!

 

(note: I'm not voting Nader. Sorry.)

[2GOLD 0]

UNLESS the candiate is nominated in late August. He doesn't NEED them. This is why it is going to the Supreme Court.

 

Nader does NOT need the signatures in Florida because of the time of his nomination.

 

Which was explained a million times in the other story about why it was going to the Supreme Court of Florida.

 

Again:

With such a party affiliation, Nader would not have to collect thousands of petition signatures to get on the Florida ballot, but the Democrats and other plaintiffs called the nomination fraudulent.

 

He doesn't need the signatures and the only reason AGAIN he is being sued is cause the Democrats are just being paranoid as ever. But of course, the Florida Supreme Court if they rule Nader is on will be called "favoring Bush" or some insanity even though he doesn't need the signatures.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

(PA or VA)

You cast your hippie ballot in PA and I'll be crossing yours out with mine, bitch...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

UNLESS the candiate is nominated in late August. He doesn't NEED them. This is why it is going to the Supreme Court.

http://convention04.reformparty.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi

 

Notice when the Reform party convention was held?

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Aug28.html

 

At a hastily arranged convention in an Irving, Tex., hotel, Ralph Nader yesterday accepted the Reform Party's nomination for president, and the ballot lines in seven states, including Florida and Michigan, that come with it.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I'd like to see you try!

[2GOLD 0]

And?

 

I'm pretty sure August 28 is LATE AUGUST but I might be wrong.

So he followed the rules and the Democrats are bitching. He was confirmed in May, they just did it to further shut up the whiners.

 

He was approved in May, it was a formality

 

The event is something of a formality. Nader was nominated by national chairman Shawn O'Hara in a telephone conference call in May and is only being reaffirmed to satisfy a Florida election law that requires nominees to be selected in person.

 

So what was the point you were trying to make? That he followed the rules and he should be out?

So it wasn't a huge convention, therefore he should be out because the Reform Party isn't loaded with cash?

 

Wait, when was the Republican Convention?

Oh, August 30 to September 2...well I guess Bush should be removed from the ticket then since he was confirmed after Nader.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Ralph Nader, responding to criticism about his attempts to get on the ballots of several states...

 

Tyler McClelland's pecker is this small. OWNED, BITCH~!

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Donald Rumsfeld has come to my defense!

 

"Actually, DOD intelligence has confirmed that it's at LEAST this big."

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

And?

 

I'm pretty sure August 28 is LATE AUGUST but I might be wrong.

So he followed the rules and the Democrats are bitching.

Misintrepreted what you said there.

 

He was confirmed in May, they just did it to further shut up the whiners.

 

He was approved in May, it was a formality

 

I guess Nader didn't want to be one of the rare candidates to be nominated via conference call.

 

So it wasn't a huge convention, therefore he should be out because the Reform Party isn't loaded with cash?

 

The Reform Party claimed to have had 18 dollars at a point in this year. The issue will be if the party qualifies as a party under Florida law.

 

Nader could have made this easier if he formed his own party, with beer and hookers.. or he could have forgotten the party and the candidacy.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Donald Rumsfeld has come to my defense!

 

"Actually, DOD intelligence has confirmed that it's at LEAST this big."

Tyler...seriously, you're relying on DOD intelligence for your defense?

[Guest MikeSC]

I would've laughed if he used Tenet.

-=Mike

[KingPK 0]

Since the joke is RIGHT THERE, and I'm the master at easy comedy:

 

 

No, it is at least this big. And it is not in Baghdad.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

I would've laughed if he used Tenet.

-=Mike

I use Liddy as my source.

 

I always knew that Howard Dean was bad, and linked to John Dean