Quick review of IWA-MS 9/15/04 show

[JoeDirt 0]

Match one: Danny Daniels d. Eddie Kingston with a low blow and a piledriver. Pretty blah opener, though Kingston had some good comedy and they played their characters well. Kingston works well with guys like Hero and in tag matches, but this was pretty blah. *1/2

 

Match two: MsChif d. Mickie Knuckles and Tracy Brooks: Good women's match, very hard hitting. **1/4

 

Match three: Nate Webb d. B-Boy: Good match, these guys work well together. The crowd didn't get into it that much, though, which is fairly disappointing. They didn't even get into Nate's entrance that much. **1/2 or so.

 

Match four: Madman Pondo and Cash Flo d. Corporal Robinson and 2 Tuff Tony in an elimination tables match. Just horrible. The final bump was okay, and Flo coming off the top through a table was decent, but the rest was just horrible, awful, terrible stuff. DUD, bordering on negative stars. After the match, Ian sets up Corp/Ian vs. Pondo/Tony next month, because Tony turns on Corp in this match. The whole segment is weird, as Pondo keeps laughing and doesn't seem to be taking anything seriously. Nothing about this was good.

 

Match five: Steve Stone d. JC Bailey with the Whiteout, an especially sick version this time of his Flatliner finisher. Fairly short, probably 5-6 minutes or so, and nothing too special, but nothing bad, either. *1/4

 

Match six: Arik Cannon d. Roderick Strong: A good hard hitting match, but I was really disappointed that this only went a little over 8 minutes. Lots of suplexes and strikes, so if you like that stuff you'll love this match. I really wish they gave them 15 minutes or more, though. **1/2

 

Match seven: Claudio Castagnoli d. Alex Shelley with a variation sleeper hold: Double C comes out in an aqua blue sui and tie and black pants. Wrestling in a sleeveless dress shirt and tie can't be fun. This is just a great 11-12 minute match, with tons of fun mat work, non-stop wrestling and action, and good selling, psychology, and pacing. I wish they got more time, but since they only had 11-12 minutes they just go non stop the whole way through, with very little wrestling. This is a super fun match, it'll be fun to watch it again. ***3/4

 

Match eight: AJ Styles d. Matt Sydal with a Styles Clash on the third or fourth try to hit it. Really good junior heavyweight style match. If you saw their match at Simply the Best 5, this is a lot like that, so if you liked that don't even worry about any star ratings, I guarantee you'll love this. The pacing is very fast, the selling and psychology is rather minimal, but the action is very fun and hard hitting. Sydal's spiked rana on Styles here is absolutely sick. The crowd absolutely loved it, so they obviously did something right! ***1/2

 

Match nine: 2/3 falls, Bryan Danielson and Chris Hero wrestled to a draw at 1 fall apiece. They stretch the SHIT out of each other to start. Danielson gets the first fall with a nice pinning combination at 15:00. It's a really different match from the Highland one, as Hero is in control a lot more, and isn't blatantly outwrestled by Dragon like in that match. For the second fall they start to bring the hard strikes. Dragon works over Hero's left arm. Cannon comes to ringside to taunt Hero. Hero gets the second fall with a Hero's Welcome at 24:30, after Dragon had fought out of the Hangman's Clutch. The third fall they both take more chances. We see Dragon superplex Hero, and both guys miss top rope moves. Hero counters the Cattle Mutilation to the Hangman's Clutch which Dragon fights out of to an Indian deathlock/bridging chinlock submission. They then go to a double hangman's neckbreaker submission, and both men tap at the same time at 29:00. Really, really, REALLY good match with a slightly goofy ending. I wish it was in front of a hotter crowd, too. But this is the match everyone expected them to do in Highland, I think. Great stuff. ****1/4

 

Ian tells Danielson after the match that the next time he wrestles Hero, it'll be in a 60-minute Ironman match. The weird thing is that Danielson and Cannon are suddenly friends, and Danielson is playing the "chickenshit" heel. They could really use some backstage vignettes here to explain things, as all Dragon says is "me and Cannon are friends now" and something about Cannon promising him something.

 

Match ten: Petey Williams d. CM Punk with the sharpshooter to retain the IWA title: This went 20 minutes, and something was just missing from it. There was little/no psychology, as Petey didn't really work over Punk's back or legs or anything leading up to the submission victory. Punk did some nice stuff, but after the previous matches this one wasn't that great. They did work hard for 20 minutes, though. **1/4-**1/2

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

I pretty much agree with you except on the Cannon vs Strong and Shelley vs Castagnoli. I didn't see one match all week that made me think Castagnoli was any big deal and that match certainly wasn't the second best match of the night. H did sell the leg pretty well though.I'll give him that.

 

Maybe it's because the first half of he show seemed so lackluster but Cannon vs Strong was the match that actually got the crowd going. I think it was better than 2 1/2.

[JoeDirt 0]

I pretty much agree with you except on the Cannon vs Strong and Shelley vs Castagnoli. I didn't see one match all week that made me think Castagnoli was any big deal and that match certainly wasn't the second best match of the night. H did sell the leg pretty well though.I'll give him that.

 

Maybe it's because the first half of he show seemed so lackluster but Cannon vs Strong was the match that actually got the crowd going. I think it was better than 2 1/2.

Fair enough assessment. I'll be interested to see what you think when you watch it again on tape.

[Guest Evolution]

I agree with all of this review except the women's match: It must look VERY good on tape, because it looked very bad live.

 

Mickie blows two big spots with the suicide dive and the Shining Redneck that completely whiffs Tracy by a good amount, and Tracy's selling of it is also to blame.

 

Otherwise, I'm with you on the rest of this review, your star ratings are accurate except for that women's match, as previously mentioned. I thought it was only worth *1/4.

[JoeDirt 0]

I agree with all of this review except the women's match: It must look VERY good on tape, because it looked very bad live.

 

Mickie blows two big spots with the suicide dive and the Shining Redneck that completely whiffs Tracy by a good amount, and Tracy's selling of it is also to blame.

 

Otherwise, I'm with you on the rest of this review, your star ratings are accurate except for that women's match, as previously mentioned. I thought it was only worth *1/4.

Good point, I should probably check it out again. The shining wizard definitely looked bad, with Prazak saying "I don't know if she got all of it."

 

Thanks for the comments, guys.

[Tim Cooke 0]

*snip* all the openers as I didn't have any interest in them.

 

"Match six: Arik Cannon d. Roderick Strong: A good hard hitting match, but I was really disappointed that this only went a little over 8 minutes. Lots of suplexes and strikes, so if you like that stuff you'll love this match. I really wish they gave them 15 minutes or more, though. **1/2"

 

I thought this was nothing more than an 8 minute spot fest. No thought, no reason for why they were doing what they were doing. Throwing out released suplexes for the heck of it isn't my cup of tea.

 

"Match seven: Claudio Castagnoli d. Alex Shelley with a variation sleeper hold: Double C comes out in an aqua blue sui and tie and black pants. Wrestling in a sleeveless dress shirt and tie can't be fun. This is just a great 11-12 minute match, with tons of fun mat work, non-stop wrestling and action, and good selling, psychology, and pacing. I wish they got more time, but since they only had 11-12 minutes they just go non stop the whole way through, with very little wrestling. This is a super fun match, it'll be fun to watch it again. ***3/4"

 

I liked Double C coming out in a suit. And then he started wrestling in the shirt and tie. This was okay and easily better than the previous match but it just felt like an exhibition. It wasn't as bad asthe first half of Hero v Quakenbush which really looked like they were dancing and were going to do the Esseban/Kamen dancing spot, only for real. I love Lucha and goofiness doesn't bother me if it is done in some kind of reasonable way, but the stuff that Double C and Shelley did here didn't click. If I want "technical wrestling" that some people have called this, I will just watch U-Style.

 

"Match eight: AJ Styles d. Matt Sydal with a Styles Clash on the third or fourth try to hit it. Really good junior heavyweight style match. If you saw their match at Simply the Best 5, this is a lot like that, so if you liked that don't even worry about any star ratings, I guarantee you'll love this. The pacing is very fast, the selling and psychology is rather minimal, but the action is very fun and hard hitting. Sydal's spiked rana on Styles here is absolutely sick. The crowd absolutely loved it, so they obviously did something right! ***1/2"

 

The first half of this match had me thinking they were really going to produce the match that people had been screaming was so good. Their April match was nothing more than indy innovation spots. Nothing wrong with a spot fest but there are tons of other workers who can work them better. Style and Sydal started with a nice, slower build. But once they took off, Styles was able to control himself but Sydal went crazy and anything that was done early to build to the high spots was vanished when Sydal just went nuts with variations of variations of variations of moves. Some looked okay but others just felt so out of place.

 

"Match nine: 2/3 falls, Bryan Danielson and Chris Hero wrestled to a draw at 1 fall apiece. They stretch the SHIT out of each other to start. Danielson gets the first fall with a nice pinning combination at 15:00. It's a really different match from the Highland one, as Hero is in control a lot more, and isn't blatantly outwrestled by Dragon like in that match."

 

Hero was in control for a lot of the first fall and sure did make it "his" type of match. Slow and methodical. Slow and methodical work is perfectly fine for me and I would even go as far to say I would rather two workers build a match to the point where all the nearfalls make the fans go crazy since they are built to logically. I just don't see that kind of stuff from Chris Hero. I also get the feeling that he is wrestling a "my way or the highway" mentality.

 

"For the second fall they start to bring the hard strikes. Dragon works over Hero's left arm. Cannon comes to ringside to taunt Hero. Hero gets the second fall with a Hero's Welcome at 24:30, after Dragon had fought out of the Hangman's Clutch."

 

I liked this fall a lot more as Danielson controlled the arm work with enough variety to keep it interesting.

 

"The third fall they both take more chances. We see Dragon superplex Hero, and both guys miss top rope moves. Hero counters the Cattle Mutilation to the Hangman's Clutch which Dragon fights out of to an Indian deathlock/bridging chinlock submission. They then go to a double hangman's neckbreaker submission, and both men tap at the same time at 29:00."

 

Third fall was okay for what it was, but the exchange of finishers was old when Benoit and Angle did it in January of '03.

 

"Really, really, REALLY good match with a slightly goofy ending. I wish it was in front of a hotter crowd, too. But this is the match everyone expected them to do in Highland, I think. Great stuff. ****1/4"

 

I thought this was worse than their Highland match. I am the world's biggest Bryan Danielson fan but his streak of ***+ matches since April of '04 (and probably before) ended here for me. It would re-start the next night with Styles (which was actually a pro-wrestling match based around heel/face elements and a structure that allowed for decent control sequences).

[JoeDirt 0]

Well, clearly to each his own. I think putting Hero/Danielson under *** is a little ridiculous, as is Mike Rome saying on the DVD boards something to the effect of Hero constantly having bad matches. But to each his own, I guess, and that's why star ratings are subjective. I've become a real Hero fan, and others aren't, so I can live with that.

 

I guess I can say that if you're a Hero fan you'll love this match with Dragon. I'm sure you liked it less, Tim, because Dragon was in control for less of the time here compared to their 8/21 match, and since you don't like Hero you didn't like the match as much. But I like the story the last two matches have told; on 8/21, Danielson dominated Hero when in Highland (where Hero has been "cursed" lately), causing Hero to get away from "wrestling" and try to outstrike Danielson and take some risks, only to be caught off the top rope with an armbreaker into the Cattle Mutilation for the loss. On 9/15, when not in Highland, it was more of Hero's match, yet he was still not able to get the win over Dragon. I like the subtleties to this slow building storyline.

 

But just like I said that if you liked Sydal/Styles the first time you'd love it again here, if you are a fan of Chris Hero's work, you'll love the 9/15 match with Danielson. (Not to mention the 9/16 tag match with Hero/Nigel vs. Shelley/Strong). If you're not, then don't bother. It's as simple as that.

[Tim Cooke 0]

"Well, clearly to each his own. I think putting Hero/Danielson under *** is a little ridiculous, as is Mike Rome saying on the DVD boards something to the effect of Hero constantly having bad matches. But to each his own, I guess, and that's why star ratings are subjective. I've become a real Hero fan, and others aren't, so I can live with that."

 

I don't get the Hero fascination to be honest with you. I have my quirky likings as well. Mascarita Sagrada 2000 and Mini Abismo Negro are two guys who I believe are top 10 wrestlers in the world right now. But since they wrestle a different style and are in a promotion that sucks, I can easily see why people might shun off my suggestion of them being world class workers.

 

To me, Hero is dry, bland, and has the little to no charisma. When he does show some charisma, it seems forced to me. But character isn't my number one fascination with a wrestler either, so let's move on to his wrestling.

 

I do get that he likes to try to out wrestle his opponents, thus not using strikes. His story is that he is hesistant to use strikes and would rather out wrestle his opponent than get into a striking war with him. I can accept that, even if it doesn't do anything for me. But then when he starts selling his opponents strikes badly and starts winning those striking wars against his opponent, he loses me. If the story of a *particular* match was that his mat work was just getting him no where so he turned to striking to gain an advantage, my point would be null and void. Yet I have seen him do this in numerous matches where the feeling out process is filled with no story and meaningless mat work that goes no where, only for Hero to win a striking contest after the mat work segment in complete. See the Hero v Punk match from 6/11/04 for a huge example of this.

 

As for what Hero does during matches:

 

I'll give him credit, his move set is unique. On 8/21 against Danielson, he even added a snap suplex and one other move that is escaping me to his otherwise unique move set. Then on 9/15 against Danielson, he just went back to the same unique move set. So what's the problem with this? Small move sets are perfectly fine. Kawada, at his height of work, had a small move set compared to most. Yet he was able to get the most out of it. So it isn't Hero's small move set that is bothering me. It is the way he goes about building to his bigger moves.

 

I like mat work as much as anyone. Destroyer and Backlund are two people I could watch work matches on the mat forever. But they always built their mat work up in order to logically progress to their bigger moves. I don't see that from Hero. The cravate is a fine hold and all, but wouldn't it make more sense to build from elbow drops, leg drops, knee drops on the neck, to mid range offense like a piledriver, swinging neckbreaker, bulldog, to the high end moves such as the Hero's welcome and the Hangmen's clutch? Instead, I see Hero wanting to be methodical and take a lot of time not really doing anything in building to the later points of the match. Instead of "working" on the hold (which would be the neck in this example) like Terry Funk would do, he is more comparable to Dory Funk Jr., working the hold in an acceptable fashion but failing to really work the hold by cranking the neck, not using the low and mid range offense, and showing little emotion. Acceptable? Sure. Signs of a worker as great as Hero is pimped? I would argue against that.

 

 

"I guess I can say that if you're a Hero fan you'll love this match with Dragon. I'm sure you liked it less, Tim, because Dragon was in control for less of the time here compared to their 8/21 match, and since you don't like Hero you didn't like the match as much."

 

I disagree. I have liked plenty of matches featuring wrestlers I don't particularly care for. Muto comes to mind. His G1 Climax finals against Chono in 1991 and Hashimoto in 1995 are clearly excellent matches, and he deserves a ton of credit for putting those matches on. But when he decides to lazy around against Takada at the Dome in 01/96, it sucks. I have seen some Hero matches that I like. The Hero v Joe match reached about ***1/4 for me. 8/21 v Danielson was around *** for me. Any match over *** these days for me is a keeper.

 

"But I like the story the last two matches have told; on 8/21, Danielson dominated Hero when in Highland (where Hero has been "cursed" lately), causing Hero to get away from "wrestling" and try to outstrike Danielson and take some risks, only to be caught off the top rope with an armbreaker into the Cattle Mutilation for the loss."

 

Agreed, I liked that match as well. Not a MOTYC or anything, but it was in the solid range.

 

"On 9/15, when not in Highland, it was more of Hero's match, yet he was still not able to get the win over Dragon. I like the subtleties to this slow building storyline."

 

But why would Hero wrestle differently in Highland? I understand he is cursed but wouldn't that motivate him to work harder (theorhetically) and work a different style everywhere? I like slow building storylines as well (see Kawada's story from 1988-1996 as an example) but I am lost on elements of this story. If he is wary of Highland and wants to wrestle more fiercly to try to pull out a win, that's fine but what is the difference wrestling in wrestling in Highland rather than Evansville? Do they explain that, other than he is on a losing streak in Highland.

 

If I were a Boston Red Sox player, I would much rather play at home because Yankee Stadium is comprised of idiot New Yorkers (pardon my NY hate for this discussion). But that is a clear storyline. Unless they give some storyline reason for Highland being cursed to Hero, wrestling a slow methodical build in one city and then not doing it in Highland puzzles me.

 

 

"But just like I said that if you liked Sydal/Styles the first time you'd love it again here, if you are a fan of Chris Hero's work, you'll love the 9/15 match with Danielson. (Not to mention the 9/16 tag match with Hero/Nigel vs. Shelley/Strong). If you're not, then don't bother. It's as simple as that."

 

I have to still watch the tag. I am just interested in why Hero is regarded so highly when I see Matt Stryker being able to work the mat just as well, show more babyface charisma than Hero, and have just as good of a move set. Yet people would call me crazy for comparing Stryker to Hero but I haven't heard any logic that would make me even think about changing my mind.

 

Tim