Why do the Cubs suck?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

The cubs will win it in 08, 100 years after their last WS victory.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

And I want John Smoltz to close.

Not to knock Smoltz, but I wouldn't exactly be thrilled to see him come to town. Granted he's a talented closer, but I think his dominance, or rather, LaTroy's ineffectiveness is greatly exaggerated. It may seem like Smoltz is so much better, but look at the actual numbers:

 

YEAR G GS IP H R HR BB SO K/9 W L Hld Sv BS BAA WHIP ERA

2004 76 0 81.0 71 27 10 14 68 7.56 5 4 4 24 9 .233 1.05 2.67

 

YEAR G GS IP H R HR BB SO K/9 W L Hld Sv BS BAA WHIP ERA

2004 72 0 80.1 75 25 8 12 82 9.19 0 1 0 43 5 .248 1.08 2.80

 

Care to guess who's who? Smoltz is only dominant in two categories: saves and strikeouts. Keep in mind that he's been closing the entire year, while LaTroy didn't come into the picture until June. Also keep in mind that Smoltz has been developing as a closer for a couple of years now, while the role is fairly foreign ground to Hawkins (I'm aware he closed in Minnesota for a pinch).

 

Other than those two categories, both have virtually the same numbers in innings, hits, home runs and walks. You'll see LaTroy's actually given up fewer hits and has a better ERA than Smoltz. Hawkins has four more blown saves than Smoltz; many of those came from his set-up role time.

 

I'm not debating that in this last week, Hawkins has really put the team in a corner, but so has the rest of the team. Even though he blew two crucial games, both were eventually in the hands of the Cubs to win and they still couldn't come through.

 

Everyone who's jumping on Hawkins' case needs to remember that we got him as a set-up man. In that role, there are few better than him. When he signed, he knew there was a possibility that he may have to close, but he was primarily brought in to get the ball to Borowski in the ninth. So to expect him to be some dominant closer that he's never been billed as, is ridiculous. His closer days with the Twins weren't good at all, hence his move to the 8th inning role, where he flourished.

 

I didn't hear anyone complain about him until he moved to the closer spot. That's probably because he was doing the job he was paid to do. If I remember correctly, he was the last guy in the Cubs' pen to give up a run at the beginning of the season.

 

Certainly a new closer needs to be brought in, but I've seen some people saying we just need to get rid of Hawkins, which is insane. Get a closer and move Hawkins to the set-up role, where he was originally supposed to be.

 

Personally, I don't think we need some over dominant closer; just a guy who's going to get the job done. Smoltz isn't the answer. He's a very good closer, but he's not that much better than LaTroy. The notion that Smoltz would suddenly be this huge upgrade is stupid.

[Gert T 0]

July 20th: Cubs blow an 8 run lead at home, in their last game against the Cards, and lose 11-8.

It was never an 8-run lead.

Pardon me, 6 or 7 run lead. My journalistic integrity is down the toilet!

 

And Dama, why was your boss pissed, its not like they were on the cover the last 96 years.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

According to Dugout Dollars http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_08_...rs_archive.html there's some interesting situations concerning the 2005 season. Moises Alou has a mutual option(will make $11.50 Million) or the club can buy it out for $2 Million. Derek Lee is set to make $7.67 Million(An increase of $1.50 Million), Joe Borowski will make $2.30 Million($30 K increase), Greg Maddux will make $9 Million($3 Million increase with a $9 Mill option for 2006 should he have 400 IP b/w 2004-2005), Sammy Sosa will make $17 Million($1 Mill increase with a $3.5 Mill severance payment if cut/released) and Kerry Wood will make $9.50 Million($1.50 Million with a 2007 player option of $13.50 Million if he gets 400 IP b/w 2005-2006).

[Guest Anglesault]

When did Cubs fans become the equal of Red Sox fans? Stop it!

I don't think that's fair at all to Cubs fans or Red Sox fans.

 

Fans shouldn't "stop" being annoyed with the overwhelming mediocrity their team (that was supposed to go almost all the way) has shown over the last month or so.

 

And I've joked about this before, but I'm actually dead serious now. Cubs fans (at least to those of us around here, who could compare them to Sox fans) have always come off as fans who love their team, but if they don't win, "so be it, what can ya do. "

 

I really don't like that mentality. The Cubs quit on you guys this year. You should be pissed.

[2GOLD 0]

I'm not going to cry about it and jump up and down and say they suck. They didn't suck, the other teams were just better. There is no such thing as "they quit" and anyone who thinks that is obviously searching for some really sad things out there.

 

I finally saw Corey develop into the center fielder I thought he would and Prior proving his arm is just fine.

 

This "he sucks! GET HIM OUT OF TOWN" mental pisses me off to no end. Hawkins may have struggled as a closer but he's still one of the best if not the best late relief pitcher in baseball. Get rid of him then they deserve a swift kick in the backside.

[Guest Anglesault]

I'm not going to cry about it and jump up and down and say they suck. They didn't suck, the other teams were just better.

They sucked when it mattered most.

 

There is no such thing as "they quit"

 

Sure there is. The Yankees quit on me after the ALCS last year (and then Weaver jammed the nail in the coffin) The Cubs had it made. And then they no-showed six games against the Reds and Mets. They quit.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The mentality that the players quit really pisses me off. They like being embarassed? Is their talent so great that victory is only a matter of wanting to win? People seem to forget that a crucial part of professional sports involves another team on the other side, staffed with equally talented players. Victory is not guaranteed by turning on a light switch.

[Guest Anglesault]

People seem to forget that a crucial part of professional sports involves another team on the other side, staffed with equally talented players.

Someone hasn't looked at the New York Mets roster recently.

 

And I, as a fan, can see when my team is playing it's A game and when they'd rather be somewhere else.

 

The Yankees in last year's World Series not only played very ho-hum baseball, but actual shots of them on the bench showed an extremely bored looking group, and when the whole thing ended, no one seemed all that bothered by it.

 

On the flip side, I've seen them claw their way back and fight their asses off in losing efforts.

 

You lose games. It's a part of baseball. But when a team clearly isn't playing their A game (how many times is Alou going to make the same damn mistake?) I'd be bothered.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I just take issue with whether we can judge if a player has brought their "A" game. There is a difference between a lack of effort and a slump. Certainly there are several players who do give less than maximum effort.

 

I don't think the Cubs quit. They are still trying out there. But this team has flaws, which have a tendency to be exposed at the worst times. This team makes too many outs. They rank 1st in slugging, and 11th in OBP. That kind of discrepancy doesn't happen very often, and when its an entire team, I would tend to blame the coaching staff. But I don't think lack of effort is the cause.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Stumbled onto a quote from Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus that I like very much:

 

“He’s a mediocrity who was blessed with Barry Bonds in his first job and somehow managed to make two division titles and a Wild Card in 10 years seem like an accomplishment. He showed up in Chicago just as two excellent young pitchers were prepared to start their first full seasons, managed a 90-win team all the way to 88 wins, and had the good fortune to be up against Jimy Williams and Tony La Russa. Baker cost the Cubs maybe 60 runs on offense this year [2003] because he cared more about forcing his preferred plate approach on good young hitters than on developing them, and 30 more by showing unwarranted loyalty to the worst starting pitcher in the league. He’ll cost them more going forward as the star versions of Prior and Carlos Zambrano he managed this year turn into something less pleasant as a result of his heavy hand.

 

Baker made major mistakes with this team, and it made the playoffs not because he’s a genius, but because he inherited enough talent that even he couldn’t screw it up. The Teflon coating he carries around is ridiculous, and an example of just how far the media will go to avoid doing actual analysis when given the option to tell a good story.”

 

Right now, I'm looking for the Daily Herald article from earlier this year that has the Cubs brass, specifically Dusty Baker, talking about how OBP is overrated.

 

It's been the franchise's approach, not just the coaching staff.

[Bored 0]

Hey you don't want those pesky base runners clogging up the bases!

[The Man in Blak 0]

You can't walk across home plate, you know.

[Guest MikeSC]

Hey you don't want those pesky base runners clogging up the bases!

Come on, Bored. EVERYBODY knows that the announcers are why the Cubs underachieved.

-=Mike

[Bruiser Chong 0]

That article MiB posted sums up Dusty nicely. This isn't a genius. It's a guy who fell assbackwards into a situation in his first managing gig where he couldn't really screw up. Except he eventually did. He hasn't had one really weak team he's ever had to manage. I'd like to see how he does with a subpar team, because so far, he's had nothing but quality squads with at least the potentional to get to the postseason.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Giants and more recently, the Cubs, have suffered some heartbreaking finishes to their seasons in the last decade. It's not all Dusty's fault, but he's had the illusion that he's a great manager when really, he's just lucked out with the teams he's had to manage.

 

It's a shame that when the Cubs finally have a talented squad, they've got some jackass who doesn't really have a clue how to win games with strategy.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I'll know the Cubs would never do this but i think they should seriously consider trading Kerry Wood. He's never pitched up to his full potential and he's just finishing his 7th year and he only has 70 something wins. With his talent, he should be much better. Instead he has games like Friday where he let's the 8th and 9th hitters get 2 run homers.

[sfaJack 0]

I'd move Wood to the bullpen before I'd trade him. Make that boy your closer--who the hell would want to face him in the ninth inning?

 

But I don't think they should do either. Even though he hasn't been a 15-20/yr win guy, he's still a better option than most anyone you could get to replace him, and starting pitchers are always worth more than bullpen guys.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Wood's the sort of pitcher who has his troubles in the first inning more times than not, so being a closer would be a risk.

 

I think it was MiB who suggested trading Wood a few months back in a different thread. The Cubs could get a few big bats and maybe another arm for Wood, so I don't think it's an entirely bad idea. A few years ago I would've said no way, but when you've got two guys who have number one starter stuff (Prior and Zambrano), Wood becomes a tad bit more expendable.

 

But hey, I really like the guy, but Jack's right. He's never truly lived up to his potential. While the pen has blown things for him before, he's been injury-prone his whole career and has a Jekyll and Hyde persona to his outings. You never know which one you're going to get.

[The Man in Blak 0]

It gets better.

 

-----------------------------

 

10/04/2004 10:41 AM ET

Sosa vents his frustration

By Carrie Muskat / MLB.com

 

 

CHICAGO -- Sammy Sosa says that he is tired of taking the blame when things don't go well for the Chicago Cubs.

 

Sosa reported to Wrigley Field at 12:10 p.m. for Sunday's 1:20 p.m. game, was not in the starting lineup and apparently left early -- without approval -- in the seventh inning. He never changed into his uniform, and was never on the bench.

 

"I felt that even if he wasn't playing that he obviously should have been here," Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said after the game. "He also should have dressed in uniform, the same as all the other players."

 

Manager Dusty Baker was upset that Sosa left early.

 

"I didn't know he was going to leave," he said. "I didn't give him permission. I saw him about 12:50 when I was going to the field, and he was packing his stuff up, like a lot of guys were. Jim's got to take some action."

 

Sosa had told reporters after Saturday's game that he would talk on Sunday. But when he was approached before the season finale, he refused interview requests.

 

"I'm always the guy they are going to blame," he told the Chicago Sun-Times. "They blame me for not going to the World Series last year. They blame me for not going to the playoffs this year. I'm tired of it."

 

Sosa has one year left on his contract with the Cubs, which will pay him $17 million. There is a club option for 2006 of $18 million.

 

This season, Sosa finished with a .253 average -- his lowest since 1997 -- 35 home runs and 80 RBIs. He has hit at least 35 home runs in each of the last 10 seasons.

 

Sosa, who turns 36 on Nov. 12, told the Sun-Times that he was upset at Baker's comments before Sunday's game; the manager said that he wanted the slugger to come back next year in "tip-top shape, mentally and physically." Sosa missed a month this season because of sneeze-induced back spasms, and also was bothered by bursitis in his hip and a sore shoulder.

 

"No one has ever questioned my mental or physical preparation at any level," Sosa told the Sun-Times. "They always find something to blame me for."

 

Earlier this season, Sosa was not happy when Baker made suggestions regarding his batting stance. On Aug. 18, Sosa called the manager and told him that he was willing to be dropped lower in the batting order, and was moved to fifth for the first time in 10 years. Sosa eventually dropped another notch, to sixth.

 

He also left Wrigley during another game in early September. He missed the Sept. 6 game because of bursitis in his right hip, and exited the next day during the Cubs' 7-6, 12-inning loss to Montreal. He was supposed to be available to pinch-hit.

[Guest Sylvan Grenier]

Hey you don't want those pesky base runners clogging up the bases!

Come on, Bored. EVERYBODY knows that the announcers are why the Cubs underachieved.

-=Mike

I didn't see it mentioned anywhere here because I've been without Internet since 9 pm Saturday and I'm in TSM overload, but anyway, Chip Caray is no longer with WGN.

 

I'm torn as to how I feel about this. Chip wasn't the BEST, I mean, in the beginning, when he first replaced Harry, he was just plain annoying. But recently, he's become somewhat tolerable, despite getting too enthusiastic for great plays by the other team. Plus, he had the misfortune of following Jack Brickhouse and Harry Caray in the history of Cubs broadcasting. But even if he was a crappy announcer, he was my crappy announcer, and I'll sorta miss the big-eyebrowed guy. Good luck with the Atlanta Braves organization, or whereever you're going.

[Guest GreatOne]

Chipper did Magic games, and was with the M's at one point.

 

I'm fairly certain he did NBA playoff games on TNT/TBS as well.................

[Guest Sylvan Grenier]

I know he did Magic games before he came over to the Cubs in '98. Man, I miss Harry Caray, his verbal red-hot pokers up the ass would really give Moises what for.

[ant_7000 0]

As a ChiSox fan im happy that Cubs are not going to the postseason. I hope Steve Stone (Cubs Announcer) doesn't get fired for criticizing the team, in which he was right.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I mentioned the Caray thing in the baseball thread for last week.

 

And I think Sammy really dug himself into a hole there. Here the team is, supposedly trying to get all the high school drama behind them and he leaves before the game's even over (I actually heard reports of him leaving some 15 minutes after the first pitch).

 

Sammy may like to think he's a warrior, but he's one of the most sensitive superstars of this era in baseball. He loves the attention and all that, but can't seem to take the slightest bit of criticism.

 

I doubt they'll be able to unload him for 2005, but he won't be back after that.

 

And can someone please elaborate on Harry Caray's announcing? I didn't start watching until 1994, so by that time, he was all but completely senile and would spend most of the games spelling players' names backwards and the like. This "heel" Harry sounds like my sort of announcer. Some examples of the sort of things he said would be much appreciated.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Sammy (who is also a gladiator and hard to stop, in addition to being a warrior and team leader) is supposedly being looked at hard by the Mets, who apparently are also being run by Isiah.

 

Sosa has a contract clause that automatically vests his option if he gets traded. So the Mets would be on the hook for 2 years/30-something million.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, the era you mention in the 90s is when I most remember Harry. Trust me, there were some truly underachieving dipshit Cubs teams during that era, and Harry would let them have it. I remember that he used to just trash Brian McRae on a regular basis, badmouthed his lack of hussle, etc. Then the Cubs got rid of McRae. I think it was one of the Benes brothers who earned Harry's wrath as well (Andy or Alan, I can't recall...likely Andy). I remember Harry was like "This guy is supposed to be one of the star pitchers in the league, but LOOK at him." Then Stone fired back by saying "People have said Benes is one of the best pitchers in the league?"

 

I miss the old Harry/Stone team...they were great.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The ironic thing about this whole situation is that Harry Carey first came to the Cubs because the Cardinals felt he wasn't supportive enough of the team.