Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 You know what? God help the press if they actually had to admit that Alex Rodriguez is a better player than Derek Jeter. The double is EASILY the key hit in the rally. And after today's games, here is Rodriguez's career postseason line.... .380/.409/.619 I know that I'M giving the credit to A-Rod and Matzui. Jeter scored, and he did get on base...but so did Cairo. They were just being professional baseball players. That's what anyone in the league should be able to do. Watch none-strike pitches go by, and run the bases smart. Wait for the team to produce and knock in the runs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I'm sorry. Is that better? Yes. Believe me I have a full speech prepared about Jeter's "clutch" abilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted October 7, 2004 He should anyway. If he hits into a double play, the Yankees might have been done. No one necessarily pissed on what A-Rod did, but Jeter's role was nearly as pivotal as anyone elses. I like Jeter. I said he was amazing. Should I abort any future baseball watching and discredit any of my past knowledge? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I'm sorry. Is that better? Yes. Believe me I have a full speech prepared about Jeter's "clutch" abilities. enlighten me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I'm sorry. Is that better? Yes. Believe me I have a full speech prepared about Jeter's "clutch" abilities. Well, I hope in this "clutch speech" you at least admit he's a helluva ball player. He might not be Mr. October, but he's still better than average. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KingPK 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Sox fans don't want us to lose now... They want to (try to) do it. The Twins just woke up the Yankees...and the Sox fans know it. Dames But you gotta admit that their starting pitching doesn't scare people like the Clemens/Pettite/Wells troika used to (who knows how long Brown can go with that hand). And maybe, just maybe, Mariano Rivera is becoming mortal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Or that his amazing defense, calm demeanor, and leadership at a young age helped facilitate how many championships? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 1. A mortal Mariano Rivera is better than 90% of closers in the league ANYWAY. 2. You're right about the pitching. That's been my biggest complaint all year. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I'd love to see Houston/NY for the series, btw...just to see Clemens & Pettite come back to the Stadium and seeing what happens there. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted October 7, 2004 1. A mortal Mariano Rivera is better than 90% of closers in the league ANYWAY. 98% of closers actually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Or that his amazing defense, calm demeanor, and leadership at a young age helped facilitate how many championships? Hmmm...let's see. Since Jeter joined the Yankees in his rookie year, they've won the AL East EVERY YEAR, have 4 WS rings, with 6 appearances at the big dance. They've practically built the team around him to the point that they told the highest paid player and arguably the best player in baseball, A-Rod...to move positions. Oh and he's Captain of the team. Yeah, I'd say the guy is pretty good. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I really wish the Astros didn't win the Wild Card. They're BORING AS SHIT to watch. Granted, that's coming from a Cubs fan, but I'd still rather have seen San Fran than Houston. I'm hoping it Boston/St. Louis with Boston winning...but the chances of that are slim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 ....This might seem off topic, but any time Eric Gagne's name is brought up, who here thinks about Verne and the AWA first? Always happens to me. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 7, 2004 They can't keep doing this to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 ....This might seem off topic, but any time Eric Gagne's name is brought up, who here thinks about Verne and the AWA first? Always happens to me. Dames Sorry, not me. Gagne's run for the saves record helped rejuvanate my love for the game. I'd been in a baseball slump since the Sosa/McGwire chase. I was bummed when Barry broke Big Mac's new record, with relative ease. Not that I have anything against Barry, but it didn't even seem like he was trying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Man in Blak 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Ron's damn fault for keeping Nathan in. The guy always crumbles under pressure Crumbles under pressure? He had thrown 44 pitches - 2.1 innings pitched one night after he had been used to close the game out. It's not Nathan's fault that his arm turned into jello. I thought that the Red Sox were somewhat insane in their calls for Grady Little's head, but at least Little's hunch wasn't a blatant disregard for simple baseball logic. This is something that you fire a manager over, in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I don't think Al or anyone is saying Jeter isn't a very good player, but he isn't an all time great if you look at his numbers. His OBP is not that good, and his range factor at shortstop is poor. He gets to show his "clutch abilities" because he is constantly put in that position. He would be lost on a Kansas City or Seattle team. He's a very good player, but he is nowhere close to being as good as A-Rod. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Ron's damn fault for keeping Nathan in. The guy always crumbles under pressure Crumbles under pressure? He had thrown 44 pitches - 2.1 innings pitched one night after he had been used to close the game out. It's not Nathan's fault that his arm turned into jello. I thought that the Red Sox were somewhat insane in their calls for Grady Little's head, but at least Little's hunch wasn't a blatant disregard for simple baseball logic. This is something that you fire a manager over, in my opinion. Gardenheier has done more with his Twins than Little did with his stacked roster. thats the difference. But it was FUCKING STUPID to leave him in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 This is something that you fire a manager over, in my opinion. I said that earlier. That's the kindof shit to get a cat fired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Well, I hope in this "clutch speech" you at least admit he's a helluva ball player. He might not be Mr. October, but he's still better than average. Or that his amazing defense, calm demeanor, and leadership at a young age helped facilitate how many championships? Let me preface this by saying it is not a "Jeter sucks" rant. He is a very good player. First in reference to Banky's last post, I don't put too much stock in the measureable value of those things, especially since the ESPN announcers were praising Paul O'Neill for HIS leadership. Who deserves the credit? I go by what happens on the field. And Jeter's defense is highly overrated. He has a gun which compensates for his lack of range. He is terrible when going to his left. As for his "clutch" postseason hitting, here is my argument. Jeter is exactly the same hitter in the regular season as he is in the postseason.. Jeter is a .313 hitter in the postseason, and a .315 hitter in the regular season. His OPS is less than six points apart. Jeter has had a few clutch hits in the postseason. He's also played in 101 postseason games. Given 101 games, any .315 hitter is going to get a few clutch hits, make a few nice plays, or any of the other events he is widely praised for. Jeter is a good player, no doubt. There is just no inate quality or ability that makes him a BETTER hitter in the clutch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I don't think Al or anyone is saying Jeter isn't a very good player, but he isn't an all time great if you look at his numbers. His OBP is not that good, and his range factor at shortstop is poor. He gets to show his "clutch abilities" because he is constantly put in that position. He would be lost on a Kansas City or Seattle team. He's a very good player, but he is nowhere close to being as good as A-Rod. Has anyone said anything to the contrary? And I always thought Jeter's defense was pretty damned impressive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I don't think Al or anyone is saying Jeter isn't a very good player, but he isn't an all time great if you look at his numbers. His OBP is not that good, and his range factor at shortstop is poor. He gets to show his "clutch abilities" because he is constantly put in that position. He would be lost on a Kansas City or Seattle team. He's a very good player, but he is nowhere close to being as good as A-Rod. Sometimes, it's not about the numbers. The leadership and enthusiasm that he displays can't be shown in a box score. He steps it up and makes everyone around him better. He's like a mushroom in Super Mario Brothers. You don't NEED it, but it sure as shit don't hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smues Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Unless it's that evil poison mushroom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 ....This might seem off topic, but any time Eric Gagne's name is brought up, who here thinks about Verne and the AWA first? Always happens to me. Dames Sorry, not me. Gagne's run for the saves record helped rejuvanate my love for the game. I'd been in a baseball slump since the Sosa/McGwire chase. I was bummed when Barry broke Big Mac's new record, with relative ease. Not that I have anything against Barry, but it didn't even seem like he was trying. It probably would be different if I was a Dodgers fan. As for the saves record, I'm not trying to deny anything that Gagne has done or will do, but it's not Mariano's fault that he hasn't been in nearly as many save opportunities. That's what happens when you normally win by more than 3 runs, you know. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 It probably would be different if I was a Dodgers fan. As for the saves record, I'm not trying to deny anything that Gagne has done or will do, but it's not Mariano's fault that he hasn't been in nearly as many save opportunities. That's what happens when you normally win by more than 3 runs, you know. Dames I'm not a Dodgers fan. I'm a Cubs fan. Just because I'm a Cubs fan, that doesn't mean I won't watch a Randy Johnson perfect game, Barry Bonds home run, Ichiro hit record, or Eric Gagne save though. I'm a baseball fan first, Cubs fan second. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 Unless it's that evil poison mushroom. Fuck that shit! That was only in shitty marios. That ass wasn't in the first four! was it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 7, 2004 FYI, I kind of knew after Hunter's homerun. Things were broken in response to said homerun, but I had a feeling. This game was a like a mishmosh of the 6/13 game and the 7/1 game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I don't think Al or anyone is saying Jeter isn't a very good player, but he isn't an all time great if you look at his numbers. His OBP is not that good, and his range factor at shortstop is poor. He gets to show his "clutch abilities" because he is constantly put in that position. He would be lost on a Kansas City or Seattle team. He's a very good player, but he is nowhere close to being as good as A-Rod. Sometimes, it's not about the numbers. The leadership and enthusiasm that he displays can't be shown in a box score. He steps it up and makes everyone around him better. He's like a mushroom in Super Mario Brothers. You don't NEED it, but it sure as shit don't hurt. But Rex Hudler had a lot of emotion and was a leader, did that make him a great player? I'm not comparing the 2 in any way, but Jeter has had the opportunity to play on great teams and with other great players. Leadership is easy when you are surrounded by other all stars. Last year, Pudge Rodriquez was a "leader" and helped the Marlins win the World Series. This year he was a "leader" and "mentor" for the Tigers and they won 70 games. Did his leadership skills just disappear in a year? It's hard to measure these types of things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted October 7, 2004 It's harder to lead a contending team than it is to be a leader on a bad team. At least in my opinion. The Yankees are ALWAYS right there. Jeter is a big part of that. That's undenyable. His good to great play also factors into it, and, at least locally, he's ALWAYS looked down at. He's always been compared to Nomar and A-Rod, and was, for awhile at least, consistantly in third. Now even more names pop up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2004 I think Gagne's sickest stat in the whole impressive turn that he's had in the past 2 years is that only ONE batter during save opportunities... ONE MAN... has reached third base. Now that's sick. I gots to give him props, no doubt. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
