The OaO Presidential Debate II Thread

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Mozilla Firefox lets you deny cookies from an entire domain so you don't have to even clear them to keep voting.

 

Now you tell me that..

[Guest MikeSC]

How can a man without a pleasant bone in his body like McAuliffe have a job as the head of a political party?

-=Mike

[teke184 0]

Terry McJackass needs to be replaced by Baghdad Bob... Bob's got more credibility.

[Guest MikeSC]

Terry McJackass needs to be replaced by Baghdad Bob... Bob's got more credibility.

Will somebody pimpslap Terry, for the love of God?

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

from the Fox poll:

 

"You must accept cookies to vote. Displaying current results."

 

hmm.. ok

[EricMM 0]

Somebody please recap the environmental Q and A, I was in D.C. today and missed the debate

 

I'd appreciate it.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Netscape's community poll is 37 Bush, 60 Kerry. Seems more about right. Keep in mind that no matter what you think about Kerry, he put on a hell of a show tonight.

[Guest GreatOne]

Is that the live one? Or the 'The Great Nader Suckjob' from July? (Has a Bush/Cheney spokesman on it)

 

Either way, other than Inside the NFL, I'm not too terribly missing my HBO right now..............................

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Somebody please recap the environmental Q and A, I was in D.C. today and missed the debate

 

I'd appreciate it.

Bush talked about hydrogen cars and clean gas. He also said he'd expand the wetlands by 3 million, but god only knows 3 million of what.

[EricMM 0]

Which wetlands? What wetlands. We need wetlands everywhere, not just Florida.

 

Did Kerry get to talk about that? And what was up with all the logging talks. Who CARES about American forestry anyways. It's doing fine...

[Guest MikeSC]

Netscape's community poll is 37 Bush, 60 Kerry. Seems more about right. Keep in mind that no matter what you think about Kerry, he put on a hell of a show tonight.

So much better than Bush goes without saying, right?

-=Mike

[GreatWhiteNope 0]

Kerry reference stats from MSNBC:

 

The President - 68

Plan - 33

Iraq - 11

Lost Jobs - 10

Alliance - 9

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Coulter v. Begala on CNN

 

RIP Paul

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It was a close one. If I had to choose, I'd give it to Kerry. Bush did worlds better than last week and used a lot of the same points Cheney did - unfortunately he could not get them over as well and as forceful as The Chain did. I thought his reaction to the Lumber Company thing was fantastic. However, there were points when Kerry was talking and Bush had this twitch in his eye that looked odd. Bush did really well under this format, he moved around more freely than Kerry -which may be a good thing and may be a bad thing depending on how you look at it - and he did his "you know what I mean" gestures. I think a big missed opportunity is the "Name 3 things you felt were mistakes", because personally I look at admitting your faults and learning from them as a sign of maturity and responsibility and Bush just avoided it. I thought his Supreme Court response was particularly bad.

 

Kerry, I felt, was actually warmer than Bush. I am actually starting to like Kerry after watching these 2 debates, after feeling sorta cold toward him before this. I like his style, as he's playing the Jason Seaver role of "dad". That's the feeling I get from him. Dick Cheney is the uncle you turn to to bail you out of jail or take to a knife fight with, but Kerry is the dad who tells you right from wrong. Whether he does or not is irrelevant because that's the feeling he elicits. I think his "even you Charlie" was great. I think he made some really good points defending his voting record, especially on the abortion issue. He stumbled on the Stem Cell issue, which was a pretty big blow against him, and he could have better explained the tort reform stuff and John Edwards. At the end, after the debate when they were all shaking the voters hands, Kerry looked to be a lot more personable - he must have practiced that handshake a million times.

 

I liked the moderator as he actually said "hey, wait a second, clearify that..." rather than just backing away. The blonde chick who asked the abortion question was hot. Hot.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

The best or hardest questions for each guy..

 

the patriot act guy was interesting

 

so was the one asking Kerry on Abortion

 

I don't think Bush really answered the question on the woman who talked about our stature in the world and what we'd do.

 

and Bush exposed us to the secret evil of fertility clinics

 

I sorta consider this debate as "Dueling Speeches"

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't think Bush really answered the question on the woman who talked about our stature in the world and what we'd do.

Sure he did.

 

In so many words...

 

"Don't care."

 

Which, depending on how you look at it, could be good or could be bad. I bet a lot of Americans don't care how they're looked at by the rest of the World.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And I loved how Bush said "The Internets" when he talked about the Draft.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I bet a lot of Americans don't care how they're looked at by the rest of the World.

Check out the "in other news" section of your newspaper for a story from Australia about a library mural with about 13 famous people's names all spelled wrong.

 

The US-based artist's response was basically "I just did it, it's not my fault they don't like it."

 

That probably does a lot more to make the rest of the world think we're arrogant, moreso than Dick Cheney's opinion on (whatever). Sadly, it's because a lot of us are.

[AndrewTS 0]

I think Bush's major losses on issues were imported prescription drugs and the Supreme Court Justice replacement. Kerry's "I have a plan" and fixation on international support were constant annoyances throughout the entire debate, though. Kudos to Bush for losing most of the repetitious nonsense that killed him in the first debate.

 

Bush completely fumbled the opportunity to bring up the Germany/France scandal. That could have easily torpedoed so much of Kerry's "global test" rhetoric, but he didn't speak a word of it, and since next time is domestic, he's lost the chance to use it in any more debates.

 

I'll agree with a good bit of what Rudo said, but while Bush isn't as good a speaker as Chain, when Bush does well like that it means a lot more than when Cheney did. It seemed effortless but unemotional for Cheney. Bush had more fire. And while Kerry is certainly warming up, he still comes off as colder for me.

 

So not a home run by either guy in my opinion, but compared to before tonight's debate, I'm actually liking the two candidates more.

[Guest GreatOne]

I don't think Bush really answered the question on the woman who talked about our stature in the world and what we'd do.

 

Quite frankly I don't know what the hell Bush or even Kerry's supposed to do about that one.

 

What, run around to each country and BEG for forgiveness? Fuck that, you're one with the bitchitis all over it, it's your problem

 

So what you're saying is the anti-Americanism was COMPLETELY non-existent from these countries pre-Iraq too? gotcha..........

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, Bush was perhaps a bit better tonight in terms of his demeanor and not stumbling over words and looking like a fool. That said, his content was just hilariously horrible tonight. He just didn't have a fucking clue. Some fun moments:

 

--Kerry was saying something about Bush and Cheney having token small businesses and said Bush had a timberyard. Bush was like "I have a timberyard??? This guy is good!"

 

--Bush went off on a really bizarre tangent about Dred Scott of all things. What in the fuck does that have to do with anything? I remember hearing about it in HS, but am hazy now. Wasn't Scott a slave who escaped from his master in Missouri and crossed into Illinois, only to lose a court case and have to return? Why bring up something like that? I mean, yeah, I'm glad Bush wouldn't approve of a judge that favored slavery, but I can't see how that is relevant.

 

I was speechless tonight, I really was. It doesn't get much better for Bush at this point...hell this was the debate I thought he might have a shot in. The next debate on the economy will be REAL ugly.

[AndrewTS 0]

Which wetlands? What wetlands. We need wetlands everywhere, not just Florida.

 

Did Kerry get to talk about that? And what was up with all the logging talks. Who CARES about American forestry anyways. It's doing fine...

Probably when they picked the questions they felt it was appropriate to get some sort of environmental question there. As expected, it ended up less about logging in specific than the environment in general.

 

So what you're saying is the anti-Americanism was COMPLETELY non-existent from these countries pre-Iraq too? gotcha..........

 

Rudo never said that.

[Guest GreatOne]

He might not have, but you get the impression from the 'BUSH MADE US HATED WORLDWIDE' crowd that everything was just fine and dandy before Iraq...................

[AndrewTS 0]

...geez. Mike's 3rd new sig pic of the day, but this one is really, really bad. Just...ugh...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'll agree with a good bit of what Rudo said, but while Bush isn't as good a speaker as Chain,

 

The Chain. Jesus Christ, how am I supposed to get over this nickname when you gum-it-up?! Dirty Dick. The Chain. Holla-atcha.

 

...G.O. was talkin to me?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

He might not have, but you get the impression from the 'BUSH MADE US HATED WORLDWIDE' crowd that everything was just fine and dandy before Iraq...................

 

*You* get the impression, because -well- you have a warped view on things.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

this may have been mentioned.. but regarding the "Need some wood" line:

 

That baffling exchange arises from an analysis by the Annenberg Public Policy Center's FactCheck.org debunking Bush's claims that Kerry's plans to raise taxes on the richest Americans would increase the tax burden on 900,000 small businesses.

 

The analysis found that the Bush campaign is counting every rich person who has even $1 of outside business income as a small business owner, even if they have no employees.

 

The analysis said even Bush qualifies under that definition because he reported $84 in income from his part-ownership of a timber enterprise on his 2001 federal tax return.

[Guest MikeSC]

...geez. Mike's 3rd new sig pic of the day, but this one is really, really bad. Just...ugh...

It's a work in progress.

-=Mike

[AndrewTS 0]

I'll agree with a good bit of what Rudo said, but while Bush isn't as good a speaker as Chain,

 

The Chain. Jesus Christ, how am I supposed to get over this nickname when you gum-it-up?! Dirty Dick. The Chain. Holla-atcha.

 

...G.O. was talkin to me?

Okay, THE CHAIN, sorry!

 

The logging comment killed me, too. It fell in the category of harmless Bushisms, which came off as silly and down to earth, rather than flat out dumb like "You forgot Poland!" 2 weeks ago.

 

"Internets" will be repeated on late night comedy shows for a few days then be completely forgotten. However, unlike The Chain, he didn't direct anybody to an anti-Bush site by mistake.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Mike.. that progress better involve getting some pants on John Lennon