Bored 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 This is something I've been meaning to put together to just rank players position-by-position on how they performed in the 2004 season. I take 30 players at each position who made the most starts at that position in 2004 so there can be one more than one player from one team at a position. I use OPS, VORP, Equivalent Average, Runs Created, and Win Shares to rank the players. I've only finished doing catchers so far. Catcher 1. Ivan Rodriguez, Tigers 2. Javy Lopez, Orioles 3. Jorge Posada, Yankees 4. Victor Martinez, Indians 5. Jason Varitek, Red Sox 6. Jason Kendall, Pirates 7. Johnny Estrada, Braves 8. Michael Barrett, Cubs 9. Paul Lo Duca, Dodgers/Marlins 10. Ramon Hernandez, Padres 11. Jason LaRue, Reds 12. Damian Miller, A's 13. Mike Lieberthal, Phillies 14. A.J. Pierzynski, Giants 15. Gregg Zaun, Blue Jays 16. Brian Schneider, Expos 17. Charles Johnson, Rockies 18. Bengie Molina, Angels 19. Rod Barajas, Rangers 20. Miguel Olivo, White Sox/Mariners 21. Toby Hall, Devil Rays 22. Mike Matheny, Cardinals 23. Mike Redmond, Marlins 24. John Buck, Royals 25. Dan Wilson, Mariners 26. Brad Ausmus, Astros 27. Jason Phillips, Mets 28. Gary Bennett, Brewers 29. Henry Blanco, Twins 30. Chad Moeller, Brewers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 I can't see Buck placing above Ausmus and Co. Not with a .280 OBP in half a season. I think Lieberthal ranks too highly. His defense is legitimately terrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 List looks pretty good to me. Pudge carried my fantasy team to a championship, and Javy's an Oriole, so he's automatically tight as fuck. I'm not that good way down the list, but I would say that with the year Martinez had, he might deserve to be ahead of what's been a pretty mediocre Jorge Posada. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Posada did post a .400 OBP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Posada did post a .400 OBP. And was a GIDP machine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Posada did post a .400 OBP. And was a GIDP machine. He hit into 24 this season. Not great, but not quite horrible. He did have alot of baserunners when he came to the plate, in his defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Posada did post a .400 OBP. And was a GIDP machine. He hit into 24 this season. Not great, but not quite horrible. He did have alot of baserunners when he came to the plate, in his defense. I also think the MVP type year worked against him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Posada tied for 11th in DP rate with Vladimir Guerrero. See even the likely MVP grounds into a lot of double plays. I'll take any catcher who has a .400 OBP and slugs close to .500 and that was considered an off year by some people. I'm wondering if Al is feeling well though...he's defending Brad Ausmus! I can see the Buck argument since he played so little but no one can be ranked lower than Chad Moeller. I was surprised Lieberthal did come out that high as I had been under the impression he was having an awful year. Did he finish strong? First Base 1. Albert Pujols, Cardinals 2. Todd Helton, Rockies 3. Sean Casey, Reds 4. Mark Teixeira, Rangers 5. Jim Thome, Phillies 6. Paul Konerko, White Sox 7. Phil Nevin, Padres 8. J.T. Snow, Giants 9. Lyle Overbay, Brewers 10. Derrek Lee, Cubs 11. Brad Wilkerson, Expos 12. Carlos Delgado, Blue Jays 13. Jeff Bagwell, Astros 14. Kevin Millar, Red Sox 15. Ben Broussard, Indians 16. Shawn Green, Dodgers 17. Scott Hatteberg, A's 18. Tino Martinez, Devil Rays 19. Shea Hillenbrand, Diamondbacks 20. Hee Seop Choi, Marlins/Dodgers 21. Rafael Palmeiro, Orioles 22. Julio Franco, Braves 23. Carlos Pena, Tigers 24. Mike Piazza, Mets 25. Darin Erstad, Angels 26. Adam LaRoche, Braves 27. Ken Harvey, Royals 28. John Olerud, Mariners/Yankees 29. Nick Johnson, Expos 30. Doug Mientkiewicz, Twins/Red Sox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Casey is a few spots too high. Otherwise a good list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Is it possible to find Oleruds projected full season stats for just what he did with the Yanks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Just divide his stats by games played, and multiply by 162. I'd caution against drawing many conclusions from it however. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Why? I mean, he slowed down after his intial hot streak, but its not like he fell of the top of the earth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Simply because a player's stats are influenced by sample size. A small sample of at bats could be misleading, and not indicative of a player's true level of ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 Couldn't you have Justin Morneau listed for the Twins? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 I took the top 30 players in games started at each position and Morneau just missed the cut. He probably would have come in at about #21. Second Base 1. Mark Loretta, Padres 2. Jeff Kent, Astros 3. Ray Durham, Giants 4. Mark Bellhorn, Red Sox 5. Marcus Giles, Braves 6. Juan Uribe, White Sox 7. Ron Belliard, Indians 8. D'Angelo Jiminez, Reds 9. Alfonso Soriano, Rangers 10. Luis Castillo, Marlins 11. Placido Polanco, Phillies 12. Tony Womack, Cardinals 13. Jose Vidro, Expos 14. Todd Walker, Cubs 15. Orlando Hudson, Blue Jays 16. Brian Roberts, Orioles 17. Adam Kennedy, Angels 18. Omar Ifante, Tigers 19. Alex Cora, Dodgers 20. Miguel Cairo, Yankees 21. Bret Boone, Mariners 22. Marco Scutaro, A's 23. Aaron Miles, Rockies 24. Luis Rivas, Twins 25. Willie Harris, White Sox 26. Scott Hairston, Diamondbacks 27. Tony Graffanino, Royals 28. Jose Castillo, Pirates 29. Rey Sanchez, Devil Rays 30. Enrique Wilson, Yankees Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 I thought Cairo would have been higher than 19. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2004 My Orioles analysis so far: It's nice to see Javy up there at #2 (no doubt Irod is tops), as no one expected him to belt 40+ again but his average was above .300 all year long and he seemed to always deliver big hits in RBI situations. Plus he was asked to catch the most he has in his entire career and stayed healthy the whole year and never went into a deep slump. Very happy with him. I agree with Palmeiro being low down on the 1B list. To put it nicely, he bombed this year, until the very last month, when he realized "hmmm...I want to sign a new contract next year" and started belting the ball again and actually brought his numbers up to respectability, but for the majority of the year he looked a step slow and went through an almost 2 month period where he seemed to not a hit a homerun. Brian Roberts is right in the middle of the list, but I would advocate him being higher, as he really broke out this year as an elite leadoff hitter. He set the team record with 50 doubles, had numerous multihit games, and was amongst the leaders in the first half in stolen bases in the league. His defense was also superb, as him and Miguel Tejada turned numerous smooth double plays. Anxiously awaiting your shortstop rankings for obvious reasons! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted October 13, 2004 Third Base 1. Adrian Beltre, Dodgers 2. Scott Rolen, Cardinals 3. Melvin Mora, Orioles 4. Alex Rodriguez, Yankees 5. Aramis Ramirez, Cubs 6. Mike Lowell, Marlins 7. Eric Chavez, A's 8. Hank Blalock, Rangers 9. Aubrey Huff, Devil Rays 10. Chipper Jones, Braves 11. Casey Blake, Indians 12. David Bell, Phillies 13. Chone Figgins, Angels 14. Vinny Castilla, Rockies 15. Corey Koskie, Twins 16. Edgardo Alfonzo, Giants 17. David Wright, Mets 18. Bill Mueller, Red Sox 19. Sean Burroughs, Padres 20. Ty Wigginton, Mets/Pirates 21. Joe Randa, Royals 22. Chad Tracy, Diamondbacks 23. Tony Batista, Expos 24. Morgan Ensberg, Astros 25. Eric Munson, Tigers 26. Joe Crede, White Sox 27. Eric Hinske, Blue Jays 28. Wes Helms, Brewers 29. Scott Speizio, Mariners 30. Mark DeRosa, Braves Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted October 13, 2004 I'd put Chavez higher than that. His injury hurt his counting stats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted October 13, 2004 Well I wanted to take into account counting numbers as part of it because playing the entire season has to count for something. I'd put him ahead of Lowell without the counting numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 13, 2004 MELVIN > AROD. 'Nuff said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
treble 0 Report post Posted October 13, 2004 Hinske > Speizio woopity doo! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted October 13, 2004 Shortstop 1. Miguel Tejada, Orioles 2. Carlos Guillen, Tigers 3. Michael Young, Rangers 4. Derek Jeter, Yankees 5. Jimmy Rollins, Phillies 6. Jack Wilson, Pirates 7. Khalil Greene, Padres 8. Rafael Furcal, Braves 9. Julio Lugo, Devil Rays 10. Omar Vizquel, Indians 11. Cesar Izturis, Dodgers 12. Nomar Garciaparra, Red Sox/Cubs 13. Edgar Renteria, Cardinals 14. Bobby Crosby, A's 15. Kazuo Matsui, Mets 16. Jose Valentin, White Sox 17. Barry Larkin, Reds 18. Deivi Cruz, Giants 19. Royce Clayton, Rockies 20. Cristian Guzman, Twins 21. Orlando Cabrera, Expos/Red Sox 22. Alex Gonzalez, Marlins 23. Adam Everett, Astros 24. David Eckstein, Angels 25. Angel Berroa, Royals 26. Craig Counsell, Brewers 27. Chris Gomez, Blue Jays 28. Alex Cintron, Diamondbacks 29. Rich Aurilia, Mariners/Padres 30. Alex S. Gonzalez, Cubs/Expos/Padres Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 13, 2004 Shortstop 1. Miguel Tejada, Orioles I will now celebrate with a short collage of Miggy greatness... Ok, carry on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 13, 2004 It'll be sad to see the Reds without Barry Larkin next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Left Field 1. Barry Bonds, Giants 2. Manny Ramirez, Red Sox 3. Adam Dunn, Reds 4. Hideki Matsui, Yankees 5. Moises Alou, Cubs 6. Carlos Lee, White Sox 7. Lew Ford, Twins 8. Jose Guillen, Angels 9. Ryan Klesko, Padres 10. Jason Bay, Pirates 11. Eric Byrnes, A's 12. Carl Crawford, Devil Rays 13. Raul Ibanez, Mariners 14. Craig Biggio, Astros 15. Pat Burell, Phillies 16. Shannon Stewart, Twins 17. Luis Gonzalez, Diamondbacks 18. Matt Lawton, Indians 19. Craig Monroe, Tigers 20. Cliff Floyd, Mets 21. Jeff Conine, Marlins 22. Geoff Jenkins, Brewers 23. Jayson Werth, Dodgers 24. Terrmel Sledge, Expos 25. Rondell White, Tigers 26. Matt Holliday, Rockies 27. Charles Thomas, Braves 28. Larry Bigbie, Orioles 29. David Dellucci, Rangers 30. Reed Johnson, Blue Jays Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Ouch. Well, Larry is but a young pup, he's already showing signs of improvement and might be ready for a breakout year next season... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Center Field 1. Jim Edmonds, Cardinals 2. Carlos Beltran, Royals/Astros 3. Johnny Damon, Red Sox 4. Aaron Rowand, White Sox 5. Mark Kotsay, A's 6. Jeromy Burnitz, Rockies 7. Juan Pierre, Marlins 8. Andruw Jones, Braves 9. Steve Finley, Diamondbacks/Dodgers 10. Randy Winn, Mariners 11. Bernie Williams, Yankees 12. Mike Cameron, Mets 13. Corey Patterson, Cubs 14. Ken Griffey Jr., Reds 15. Milton Bradley, Dodgers 16. Torii Hunter, Twins 17. Vernon Wells, Blue Jays 18. Garret Anderson, Angels 19. Coco Crisp, Indians 20. Marquis Grissom, Giants 21. Rocco Baldelli, Devil Rays 22. Scott Podsednik, Brewers 23. Jay Payton, Padres 24. David DeJesus, Royals 25. Tike Redman, Pirates 26. Endy Chavez, Expos 27. Alex Sanchez, Tigers 28. Laynce Nix, Rangers 29. Luis Matos, Orioles 30. Marlon Byrd, Phillies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Eh, Luis, although an amazing fielder, is not an everyday major league starter, so not a shock... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 14, 2004 3. Adam Dunn, Reds Is it wrong that I hope he breaks his own strikeout record on the way to 60 HRs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
