The Iraqi Elections

[Guest MikeSC]

You'll never believe what is written here.

U.N. Official: Iraq Election 'On Track'

 

By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Preparations for the crucial January election are "on track" and the absence of international observers due to the country's tenuous security should not detract from the vote's credibility, the top U.N. electoral expert here said.

 

The January election is seen as a major step in Iraq (news - web sites)'s path to democratic rule. The United States, which formally ended its occupation of Iraq in June but still wields vast influence, sees the vote as a key step toward establishing a stable government.

 

"International observation is important only in that it's symbolic," Carlos Valenzuela told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday. "I don't think that the process will be less credible without observers, absolutely not. They are not the essence. They are not essential. They are not important. If they can come, fine, of course."

 

To enable the vote to take place throughout Iraq, joint U.S.-Iraqi military operations are underway to break the hold of Sunni insurgents in areas south, north and west of the capital Baghdad.

 

Iraqis will select a 275-seat assembly whose main task will be to draft a constitution. If adopted, the document will be the foundation for a second vote to be held by Dec. 15.

 

Valenzuela rejected criticism that the United Nations (news - web sites) was not doing enough to help Iraq prepare for the election, saying that U.N. experts have provided important assistance to the election's organizer — the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq.

 

He said of the 35 U.N. international staffers in Iraq, 10 were electoral experts. He said 15 more experts were being recruited and were expected to arrive in Iraq at the beginning of January. But he warned against judging the U.N. electoral role on numbers alone.

 

"It's completely ridiculous to say that the work of the United Nations depends on the number of U.N. electoral officers because the U.N. was never supposed to do the work the Iraqis are doing and were always meant to do," he said. "People, probably naively, expected that hundreds of U.N. staff will be all over the place. That was never the mandate."

 

Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari complained Wednesday that that United Nations was not providing adequate support to the election process.

 

"It is unfortunate that the contribution and participation of U.N. employees in this process is not up to expectations," he said.

 

In New York, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) said Thursday it is still "technically possible" for Iraq to hold the elections as scheduled. Annan acknowledged that the United Nations may not have enough staff on the scene to support preparations for the vote. The dispatch of additional U.N. staff to Iraq will depend on security or protection arrangements.

 

U.S. and Iraqi officials had hoped the United Nations would play a major role in helping Iraq organize the election, a role the world body has played in numerous countries emerging from tyranny or civil strife. But U.N. chief Kofi Annan has imposed a ceiling of 35 on the number of international staffers permitted in Iraq because of security.

 

He had pulled U.N. international staff from Iraq a year ago, following a spate of attacks on humanitarian workers and two bombings at the organization's Baghdad headquarters. One attack killed at least 17 people, including the U.N.'s top envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello.

 

On Wednesday, the United Nations said Fiji has offered 130 troops to protect U.N. staff and facilities in Iraq — the first country to respond to requests for a protection force separate from U.S.-led multinational force in Iraq.

 

Valenzuela acknowledged that the U.N. target number for electoral experts assigned to Iraq was 35, but said it was never specified that all had to come from the United Nations.

 

Already, he explained, about 15 U.N. electoral officers were based in Amman, in neighboring Jordan, and that four experts from the International Foundation for Election Systems, a Washington-based organization, were working in Baghdad.

 

Valenzuela said the electoral commission already has hired 400 electoral officers, of whom more than 300 were stationed outside Baghdad. Close to 6,000 Iraqis were undergoing training to be clerks at 548 voter registration centers across Iraq. Registration will be begin Nov. 1.

 

He said the commission was due to issue detailed instructions Saturday for registering political parties and individuals wishing to run.

 

"It's a very tight timeline. Things could go wrong. Everyone knew that it was going to be a race against time. But, so far, everything is on track," he said.

 

Valenzuela, a Colombian, said he was more concerned with the availability of local electoral observers and monitors from political "entities" participating in the election than with whether foreign observers could come to Iraq.

 

Valenzuela, who has been involved in several post-conflict elections around the world, said international observation teams often arrive days before voting takes place, are rarely familiar with the country they go to and never able to visit more than several polling stations.

 

"What's important and have always been important, and the United Nations has always emphasized this, is local observation," he said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor.../iraq_elections

 

I was stunned. A UN observer admitted that int'l observation wasn't absolutely necesary to make an election legitimate. How did somebody with a semblance of common sense make it in the UN?

 

Oh, and the Iraqi elections are on track --- but who didn't expect that?

-=Mike

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Just an odd thought:

 

What would happen if the Iraqui's voted for Saddam?

[Guest MikeSC]

Just an odd thought:

 

What would happen if the Iraqui's voted for Saddam?

I'm relatively certain he is ineligible to run.

-=Mike

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

I'm assuming the US makes the rules on who is eligible?

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm assuming the US makes the rules on who is eligible?

I'm assuming the Iraqis made their own rules.

-=Mike

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

So what if they vote in another crazy, tyrant, terrorist-supporting lunatic?

[Guest MikeSC]

So what if they vote in another crazy, tyrant, terrorist-supporting lunatic?

Then that is their decision.

 

It seems unlikely, however.

-=Mike

[cbacon 0]

I wonder if these elections will be as illeigitimate as the Afghanistan elections.

 

Already we're seeing boycotts of the impending election. Not a good sign. Nor will the aftermath of the elections, should they take place.

[Guest MikeSC]

I wonder if these elections will be as illeigitimate as the Afghanistan elections.

You mean COMPLETELY legitimate?

 

Yes, probably.

Already we're seeing boycotts of the impending election. Not a good sign. Nor will the aftermath of the elections, should they take place.

Wow, you REALLY hate democracy.

 

Good for you.

-=Mike

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

I would say it is most probable for a whacko-type to take charge of a country when it is in such a weakened state.

[Guest MikeSC]

I would say it is most probable for a whacko-type to take charge of a country when it is in such a weakened state.

Allawi, by every account, is actually quite well-liked and it the odds-on favorite to win handidly.

-=Mike

[cbacon 0]

Yes, that's it, hit the nail on the head. Let it forever be known that I hate democracy.

 

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

 

Pax Americana disguised as democracy.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Of course, I don't have a clue who he is. I just hope we've done our homework on him. It would be a shame to have a bigger problem on our hands after this thing is over.

[cbacon 0]

I would say it is most probable for a whacko-type to take charge of a country when it is in such a weakened state.

Allawi, by every account, is actually quite well-liked and it the odds-on favorite to win handidly.

-=Mike

Very well liked by the CIA of course. His assasination clock is ticking.

 

It's funny that human rights are brought up in the context of Iraq, knowing that Allawi is responsible for shooting prison inmates in cold blood.

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes, that's it, hit the nail on the head. Let it forever be known that I hate democracy.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

Except that nobody can state that there actually WAS any problem with the Afghan election. Even the ones who lost said they'll abide by the UN investigation's decision.

Pax Americana disguised as democracy.

It must suck to have to oppose good things in the world.

Of course, I don't have a clue who he is. I just hope we've done our homework on him. It would be a shame to have a bigger problem on our hands after this thing is over.

Allawi was the guy Kerry's people called a Bush puppet while he was over here.

Very well liked by the CIA of course. His assasination clock is ticking.

 

It's funny that human rights are brought up in the context of Iraq, knowing that Allawi is responsible for shooting prison inmates in cold blood.

Hey, the tsar of Russia was a bad guy.

 

Was he a BETTER option than the Bolsheviks who took over?

 

I know, you like the idea of tossing out the good because it isn't perfect.

-=Mike

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Even the ones who lost said they'll abide by the UN investigation's decision.

 

So NOW the UN's investigators are sufficient for you?

 

 

Allawi was the guy Kerry's people called a Bush puppet while he was over here.

 

Oh, the puppet. I figured that's who that was. The "Prime Minister". Yeah, I've gotta strange feeling he'll win too.

 

And Kerry didn't call him a puppet, but he would have been more acurate in doing so.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Allawi, being a Prime Minister, won't be elected to that post directly. If he were running for the ceremonial title of President, then he would have to be elected. But then again, the President of Iraq hasn't come to America and I'm pretty sure that the Presidency of Iraq is very weak.

 

Allawi could remain prime minister. But the party structure in Iraq is sorta unknown now.

[NoCalMike 0]

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

See: Florida 2000 U.S. Presidential Election.

[Justice 0]

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

See: Florida 2000 U.S. Presidential Election.

See: Chicago, Illinois is more accurate.

[Justice 0]

Yes, that's it, hit the nail on the head. Let it forever be known that I hate democracy.

 

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

 

Pax Americana disguised as democracy.

 

Very well liked by the CIA of course. His assasination clock is ticking.

 

It's funny that human rights are brought up in the context of Iraq, knowing that Allawi is responsible for shooting prison inmates in cold blood.

 

I'd give you a tin-foil hate, but I'm sure you're already wearing one.

 

The only salient point I can attack in the Allawi one: There is so little information and proof on that rumor, how can you really believe it? How do you know it was in cold blood? Seriously, if they were caught fighting against coalition forces and admit to it, that's treason, punishable by death. The article in question (If I remember it well enough, since it was pretty damn vague) never said if there was already a trial or not, nor did they actually have proof that it happened.

 

But hey, it already satisfies two criteria to be used as a fact by C-Bacon:

 

1) Is incredibly vague and quite possibly not true

 

2) It's obviously showing the attrocities committed by the new Iraqi government and the coalition (Mind you, none of this EVER happened before. It's all the American's fault, really).

 

And you wonder why the hell no one takes you seriously.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

See: Florida 2000 U.S. Presidential Election.

See: Chicago, Illinois is more accurate.

or The Valley, Texas, circa 1948

 

(LBJ was such a bastard )

[Justice 0]

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

See: Florida 2000 U.S. Presidential Election.

See: Chicago, Illinois is more accurate.

or The Valley, Texas, circa 1948

 

(LBJ was such a bastard )

 

SAY THAT TO MY FACE, YA LITTLE PISSANT MIZZURA BOY~!!!

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

And an inaccurate and manipulated voting system is a good way to determine democracy I take it. How representitive.

See: Florida 2000 U.S. Presidential Election.

See: Chicago, Illinois is more accurate.

or The Valley, Texas, circa 1948

 

(LBJ was such a bastard )

 

SAY THAT TO MY FACE, YA LITTLE PISSANT MIZZURA BOY~!!!

I find it odd that my grandparents (who will vote for Kerry) also voted for Barry Goldwater.

 

And yeah.. i'll say that to LBJ's face, because he's dead.

 

("Lyndon Johnson Means of Ascent" goes into the 1948 election. Including his 4195 to 38 win in Duval county and all that fun vote fraud)

[Guest MikeSC]

Even the ones who lost said they'll abide by the UN investigation's decision.

 

So NOW the UN's investigators are sufficient for you?

 

 

Nope. But there is ZERO evidence of actual wrongdoing. I actually expect some proof of a charge before I buy it.

 

I'd also not be shocked for Kerry to make the same charge, regardless of accuracy.

 

However, the people bitching said it's good enough for them, and since they haven't provided proof of their claims, then it's a bit of a moot issue.

Allawi was the guy Kerry's people called a Bush puppet while he was over here.

 

Oh, the puppet. I figured that's who that was. The "Prime Minister". Yeah, I've gotta strange feeling he'll win too.

 

And Kerry didn't call him a puppet, but he would have been more acurate in doing so.

Hence the reason I said Kerry's people. Joe Lockhart, to be precise.

 

And that mentality is a GREAT way to keep our allies. Nothing gets somebody on your side than simply putting him at risk of assassination due to fucking idiotic comments.

See: Florida 2000 U.S. Presidential Election.

You mean the state with a lower spoiled ballot percentage than the city of Chicago? The state where a whopping TWO PEOPLE would testify that they had any problems with voting?

 

Them?

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

(You mean the state with a lower spoiled ballot percentage than the city of Chicago? The state where a whopping TWO PEOPLE would testify that they had any problems with voting?)

 

 

 

"The United States Commission on Civil Rights, a federal agency, did conclude in a majority opinion in June 2001 that African-American voters were disproportionately affected by Florida's electoral problems and called on the Department of Justice to investigate possible violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. The majority opinion blamed the voting problems on state officials who "ignored the mounting evidence of rising voter registration rates in communities" and failed to devote more resources to such communities. The majority of the Commission estimated that African-American voters cast about 54 percent of the roughly 180,000 uncounted ballots and that 14.4 percent of African-American voters cast ballots that were rejected compared to 1.6 percent of other voters. "

 

There were clearly voting problems in Florida in 2000. Just because Chicago had problems too doesn't mean that Florida did not.

[Guest MikeSC]

(You mean the state with a lower spoiled ballot percentage than the city of Chicago? The state where a whopping TWO PEOPLE would testify that they had any problems with voting?)

 

 

 

"The United States Commission on Civil Rights, a federal agency, did conclude in a majority opinion in June 2001 that African-American voters were disproportionately affected by Florida's electoral problems and called on the Department of Justice to investigate possible violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. The majority opinion blamed the voting problems on state officials who "ignored the mounting evidence of rising voter registration rates in communities" and failed to devote more resources to such communities. The majority of the Commission estimated that African-American voters cast about 54 percent of the roughly 180,000 uncounted ballots and that 14.4 percent of African-American voters cast ballots that were rejected compared to 1.6 percent of other voters. "

 

There were clearly voting problems in Florida in 2000. Just because Chicago had problems too doesn't mean that Florida did not.

You need to actually study the Commission, which was the most partisan joke of a group in recent history.

 

In all of the suits, TWO people said they had a problem.

 

24 of the 25 counties with the highest ballot spoilage rate were led by Dems (the other was independent).

 

In fact, the single biggest determining factor in if your vote would be counted would be if a minority Democrat ran your election board.

 

Using the Commission's report, which lacks any semblance of actual evidence (contrary to the opposition view that had evidence and that the majority tried to keep out of the report entirely) as evidence is not strong.

 

What I said was factual. What the Commission reported was rumor and innuendo without any factual basis.

-=Mike

[cbacon 0]

The only salient point I can attack in the Allawi one: There is so little information and proof on that rumor, how can you really believe it? How do you know it was in cold blood? Seriously, if they were caught fighting against coalition forces and admit to it, that's treason, punishable by death. The article in question (If I remember it well enough, since it was pretty damn vague) never said if there was already a trial or not, nor did they actually have proof that it happened.

 

It's been widely reported. Maybe I should have said "accused" rather than impying that it was fact, given witness testimony, it all seems very likely.

 

Allawi Shot Inmates in Cold Blood, Say Witnesses

 

Allawi shot prisoners in cold blood: witnesses

 

Did Allawi Shoot Inmates in Cold Blood?

 

Govt should explain Allawi claims: Brown

 

I'm not saying it's "America's fault" but rather noting their track record for being largely hypocritical. In this case the so-called endorsement of human rights. You can't scream 'human rights' while condoning and participating in it. Or as people like Mike would have many to believe, bombing a third world country that poses no immediate threat as the equivalent of bombing Germany in World War II. Human rights is such a lovely justification.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

"(contrary to the opposition view that had evidence and that the majority tried to keep out of the report entirely)"

 

Okay, I will grant you that the commission was partisan. However, even the members with dissenting opinions did not deny that there were problems with voting. Spoiled ballots are a problem.

 

The suggestion that black voters were disenfranchised does seem suspect, though--I agree.

[Guest MikeSC]

"(contrary to the opposition view that had evidence and that the majority tried to keep out of the report entirely)"

 

Okay, I will grant you that the commission was partisan. However, even the members with dissenting opinions did not deny that there were problems with voting. Spoiled ballots are a problem.

 

The suggestion that black voters were disenfranchised does seem suspect, though--I agree.

Spoiled ballots aren't good --- but they are a fact of life. We cannot avoid it.

 

As George Will said, an inability to follow the rules and vote properly is not disenfranchisement. It is you not taking your responsibilities seriously.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

((Spoiled ballots aren't good --- but they are a fact of life. We cannot avoid it.

As George Will said, an inability to follow the rules and vote properly is not disenfranchisement. It is you not taking your responsibilities seriously.))

 

Agreed.