(observer) edge jumps past rvd

[Guest Ravenbomb]

Maybe Egde should talk quieter, or get his tonsils removed, or right before an interview, have Lesnar or someone like that punch him in the gut. That could help the goofiness, or add to it. Or the hidden third option of him sounding like a quiet goofy guy coming back from surgury who just got punched in the gut.

[Guest alfdogg]

I already caught the joke, Vyce.

[Guest papacita]

Could somebody explain to me the difference between writers and bookers, cuz I always kinda figured they were the same thing.

[Guest Flyboy]

Could somebody explain to me the difference between writers and bookers, cuz I always kinda figured they were the same thing.

Well... I THINK:

 

Writers write the "soap opera" aspect of the show.  And some of the promos.

 

Bookers are the people who decide the outcome of the matches.  Thus leading the writers to continue on with their writing of their angle.

 

But in all, writers and bookers don't mean shit until Vince "okay's" it.

[Guest Flyboy]

The negatives on RVD are that his punches suck, he doesn't have intensity and he's just a spot wrestler.

 

Ah, so HHH made the decision to push Edge over RVD.

 

Cause it's a rule, all upper carders must have INTENSITY~!

Damnit, I was about to steal that joke!    RVD doesn't suppose to have intensity.. that's his character.

 

Although, sometimes he benefits from it.  It makes him seem more "dangerous".  I.E.: Before the triple threat with him, Austin, and Angle.  He delievered the 5-Star to Austin on Smackdown and he looked like he was pissed off because of what Austin did earlier in the show.  Or when he had a "feud" with Jericho and ran down there and 5-Stared him.  It sorta says, "Don't fuck with RVD or he'll fuck you up."  It makes him seem more than a one dimensional character.

 

But, then again.. I'm just a RVD mark.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

I dunno, I kinda like his '3/4 of the tag team champions' thing from what I saw a while ago and from what I've heard.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Wait...wait...wait...

 

there was a time when RVD was ahead of Edge?

 

Did I miss that?

 

With the exception of his initial run to try and salvage the invasion angle...

 

Haven't they made it obvious since January 7th that they have no intention of pushing RVD?

 

Doesn't have intensity...

 

I just give up.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

By the way...

 

this is how this all ends.

 

Edge bombs a run at the top...and the WWF decides to not push anyone for a while.

 

than RVD retires without main eventing another show.

 

 

 

 

Alright...I'm going to go off now.

 

 

 

 

****THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING****

 

 

 

What the fuck is the matter with McMahon?

 

Ratings tanked...why?

 

Because people are tired of the old guys.

 

Look at the 2 periods in the WWFs history that they were able to really turn the ship around.  I mean they REALLY improved ratings, buyrates and made themselves HUGE money.

 

1.  The early to mid 80s.  The WWF took off at this time because they put all their eggs in Hogans basket and rode him to the top with the cartoonish style of "sports entertainment" that some of us love...and some of us loathe.

 

2.  After the WWF fell on some serious hard times...the "Attitude" era brought them out of it.  A new direction with a new star.  Steve Austin.  A complete overhaul was done to distance themselves from the cartoony aspects that no one wanted to see anymore.

 

 

Now the product is as stale as I've ever seen it.  They don't know if they are coming or going.

 

Look at the last 3 champions:

 

1.  Jericho.  A new blood guy with a completely improper build up to be taken seriously.

 

2.  HHH.  An unover face who's long road back to the title was met with apathy.  

 

3.  Hogan.  Super-over.  but almost 50.  Hogan's title reign (while I still think getting the belt off of HHH was a good idea) is a prime example of the WWF grasping at straws to get ratings.

 

Didn't work.

 

So tell me.

 

Who is the guy that you hand the keys to?

 

Hogan again?  nope.

 

HHH again?  nope.

 

Jericho?  nope.

 

Austin?  been there too.

 

A new direction is needed.  A complete overhaul to make people interested in the product again.

 

No more bullshit title runs because the office "thinks" thats what people want.

 

GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!  not what you "think" they do.

 

Unfortunately...not all people tune into wrestling to see wrestling...but they do all tune in to be entertained.

 

HHH isn't entertaining.  Hogan kind of is...but its the same entertainment I've seen for the last 2 decades.  Austin WAS entertaining...now he's almost a mockery of his former self.   WHAT?  

 

Edge isn't entertaining.  If the WWF thinks that Edge is a better worker than RVD...thats fine.  I won;t argue with that.

 

But I will argue that it doesn't matter.

 

At this point the WWF needs a new guy to attach their cart to.  Then let all the guys you think are deserving try to take him down.

 

Who is going to care about seeing Edge vs. HHH for the belt?  Will the match be good?  maybe.  Will it draw?  probably not.

 

RVD may not be the greatest worker...but was Hogan?  No.  But he was over and they ran with him.

 

Austin is a good worker...and he was over and they ran with him.

 

1 guy.  1 guy has to be the established star.  1 guy who isn't a rehash of something that worked ok in the past.

 

It can't be Hogan.  It can't be HHH.  It can't be Austin.

 

It can be Angle or Rock (who still hasn't had to carry the ball on his shoulders alone yet).

 

But if my options are Edge or RVD....

 

Edge stays in the midcard.  And I build RVD up into something special.

 

You know they can...the guy stays over no matter how far he gets pushed/depushed wins/jobs.

 

Maybe if business was good I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Edge getting "the" push.

 

But IMO this breaks down to who was the homegrown star...and who wasn't.  

 

And business will suffer as a result.

 

And they damn well deserve it.

[Guest Flyboy]

By the way...

 

this is how this all ends.

 

Edge bombs a run at the top...and the WWF decides to not push anyone for a while.

 

than RVD retires without main eventing another show.

 

 

 

 

Alright...I'm going to go off now.

 

 

 

 

****THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING****

 

 

 

What the fuck is the matter with McMahon?

 

Ratings tanked...why?

 

Because people are tired of the old guys.

 

Look at the 2 periods in the WWFs history that they were able to really turn the ship around.  I mean they REALLY improved ratings, buyrates and made themselves HUGE money.

 

1.  The early to mid 80s.  The WWF took off at this time because they put all their eggs in Hogans basket and rode him to the top with the cartoonish style of "sports entertainment" that some of us love...and some of us loathe.

 

2.  After the WWF fell on some serious hard times...the "Attitude" era brought them out of it.  A new direction with a new star.  Steve Austin.  A complete overhaul was done to distance themselves from the cartoony aspects that no one wanted to see anymore.

 

 

Now the product is as stale as I've ever seen it.  They don't know if they are coming or going.

 

Look at the last 3 champions:

 

1.  Jericho.  A new blood guy with a completely improper build up to be taken seriously.

 

2.  HHH.  An unover face who's long road back to the title was met with apathy.  

 

3.  Hogan.  Super-over.  but almost 50.  Hogan's title reign (while I still think getting the belt off of HHH was a good idea) is a prime example of the WWF grasping at straws to get ratings.

 

Didn't work.

 

So tell me.

 

Who is the guy that you hand the keys to?

 

Hogan again?  nope.

 

HHH again?  nope.

 

Jericho?  nope.

 

Austin?  been there too.

 

A new direction is needed.  A complete overhaul to make people interested in the product again.

 

No more bullshit title runs because the office "thinks" thats what people want.

 

GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!  not what you "think" they do.

 

Unfortunately...not all people tune into wrestling to see wrestling...but they do all tune in to be entertained.

 

HHH isn't entertaining.  Hogan kind of is...but its the same entertainment I've seen for the last 2 decades.  Austin WAS entertaining...now he's almost a mockery of his former self.   WHAT?  

 

Edge isn't entertaining.  If the WWF thinks that Edge is a better worker than RVD...thats fine.  I won;t argue with that.

 

But I will argue that it doesn't matter.

 

At this point the WWF needs a new guy to attach their cart to.  Then let all the guys you think are deserving try to take him down.

 

Who is going to care about seeing Edge vs. HHH for the belt?  Will the match be good?  maybe.  Will it draw?  probably not.

 

RVD may not be the greatest worker...but was Hogan?  No.  But he was over and they ran with him.

 

Austin is a good worker...and he was over and they ran with him.

 

1 guy.  1 guy has to be the established star.  1 guy who isn't a rehash of something that worked ok in the past.

 

It can't be Hogan.  It can't be HHH.  It can't be Austin.

 

It can be Angle or Rock (who still hasn't had to carry the ball on his shoulders alone yet).

 

But if my options are Edge or RVD....

 

Edge stays in the midcard.  And I build RVD up into something special.

 

You know they can...the guy stays over no matter how far he gets pushed/depushed wins/jobs.

 

Maybe if business was good I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Edge getting "the" push.

 

But IMO this breaks down to who was the homegrown star...and who wasn't.  

 

And business will suffer as a result.

 

And they damn well deserve it.

That was... beautiful.  *sniff*

[Guest alfdogg]

Preach on, bps.

 

And I CAUGHT THE INTENSE~! JOKE FIRST, DAMMIT!  Vyce just ACTED upon it first!!!

 

I get no respect.

 

Sorry if I made a big deal out of it.

[Guest wolverine]

Dude, give it up.  RVD just plain sucks, in the ring and on the mic.

 

If you want to push somebody, push someone with actual talent.

 

This is WRESTLING, not gymnastics.  If you want to see guys do a bunch of stupid cartwheels and flips, wait two years and watch the Olympics.

 

Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, RVD.  One of these names doesn't belong.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Dude, give it up.  RVD just plain sucks, in the ring and on the mic.

 

If you want to push somebody, push someone with actual talent.

 

This is WRESTLING, not gymnastics.  If you want to see guys do a bunch of stupid cartwheels and flips, wait two years and watch the Olympics.

 

Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, RVD.  One of these names doesn't belong.

since when does it take talent to be a main eventer? I'm not saying that RVD doesn't have talent far from it. I'm saying it doesn't take talent to main event.

 

and the name that doesn't belong is Eddy because he has the smallest chance of ever holding the big belt.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

apparently Wolverine missed the entire point of the post which points out how to grow a business.

 

Did you work for WCW?

[Guest alfdogg]

Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, RVD.  One of these names doesn't belong.

I agree with that, but that's not the comparison we're drawing here.  The comparison is RVD-Edge.

[Guest alfdogg]

As far as workrate goes, it's RVD out of those five.

As a draw, it's Eddy.

[Guest Flyboy]

Dude, give it up.  RVD just plain sucks, in the ring and on the mic.

Maybe he DOES suck, but do the WWF fans realize this?  No.  DO *I* realize this?  No.

 

RVD has one thing that most people in the WWF fail to do.  Get over and STAY over.  Like bps said, whether the guy is depushed, jobbed, winning.. whatever.  The crowd LOVES the guy.  Even in his first WWF match (well, Invasion) the crowd was chanting the guy's name.  And he was suppose to be a heel!

 

Whether the guy has talent (and he does) is not the case.  The case is who's WWF future.  Who can the WWF put the WWF Title on and run with it in the future?  Eddie?  Nah.  The new star is RVD, and neither you or the WWF can see this.  

 

And what you fail to realize is that is takes TALENT (call it RVD's spots, showboating, whatever) to get over and stay over.

 

This isn't coming from a RVD mark or whatever.. it's just my opinion.  But what do I know?

[Guest alfdogg]

I say let's stop the "RVD talent level" argument before it starts this time.  I've had this argument with two other people (not going to name names...they know who they are) before, and it's a pain in the ass.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

A new direction is needed.  A complete overhaul to make people interested in the product again.

 

Right.  Give the title to Chris Benoit.

[Guest Flyboy]

I say let's stop the "RVD talent level" argument before it starts this time.  I've had this argument with two other people (not going to name names...they know who they are) before, and it's a pain in the ass.

I agree.  

 

So I'll stop..

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Giving the title to Benoit is fine.

 

But the topic is Edge or RVD.

 

And giving the title to anyone without the proper build is just asking for more of the same trouble.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

so who would you build up than...

[Guest Flyboy]

A new direction is needed.  A complete overhaul to make people interested in the product again.

 

Right.  Give the title to Chris Benoit.

Yeah.. when Benoit comes back (and hopefully he's better than ever) given 2-3 months a World Title run would be good.  And maybe he could even win it!

[Guest alfdogg]

Benoit has already been established as a main eventer, IMO, and I don't think it would take too long to build him back up once he's ready to go.  Especially if he returns as a heel.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

he's got cred as a main eventer but will the fans be willing to accept him as a CHAMP?

[Guest alfdogg]

he's got cred as a main eventer but will the fans be willing to accept him as a CHAMP?

I think so.  As a heel definitely...I don't know about as a babyface champion, though.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

RVD is not ready to main event.  He needs to be built up first, especially after his de-pushing (I won't deny it) after Triple H returned.  He was doing a decent job as IC Champ, but they had to ruin it by giving it to Guerrero, who I feel has done nothing to prove himself to me that he has changed.  I am all for forgiving people for their mistakes, but they do have to earn my respect again.  We all know that Eddy can wrestle, but giving him the title in his first singles match was a mistake.  Now RVD is even further from the main, then he was before he won the title.

 

I don't think he can do it, personally.  As mentioned, he has some major problems.  He IS too much of a spot wrestler, but his big problem is his character.  He (the character) just doesn't seem focused enough to be a credible champion.  He can main event occasionally (like Jericho in 2000), but it is a mistake to build the WWF around him.  I'm not talking about intensity either.  Guys like 1991 Undertaker have been able to handle it without being intense.  In kayfabe, RVD has the physical skills but not the mental to believably be the World Champion for any length of time.  RVD reminds me of Scott Hall in the mid-90s.  He is over enough to main event, but he doesn't have the know-how to take the next step.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I don't kno if he'd be accepted as champ as the main event scene depends on interviews so much. now if benoit had a mouth piece that would be a different story...

[Guest]

getting back to the original topic, I think we can all agree that Edge wrestles the "WWF style" and RVD is the farthest thing from it.

 

Now, why the WWF style consists of bulldogs, DDT's, and the lethal 160 pound spear is a different topic entirely.

 

As for Benoit, it won't take long to get him in the main event, although he won't be there immediatly upon returning, mainly because he doesn't have his own music video. (HHH)

 

However, I get the feeling the only way he would ever touch the belt would be to team with Angle or Jericho, and let them talk. Benoit by himself will never in a million years be WWF champion.

 

Personally, I think Angle should be the next champion. Yes, his first two reigns didn't work out. But that's cuz the second one was just trying to cash in on 9/11 (so wrong, by the way) and the first one consisted of Angle getting the belt before he was established as a main guy, and then playing the "Jericho" coward. The only guy who can do the Jericho and still draw any kind of heat is, well, Jericho. It's almost time for Kurt's bi-monthly switch from clueless dork to psychotic ankle-breaker, so why don't they let that character get a run with the title. It's Angle's most over incarnation, and I think it could work.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Well, obviously Benoit will need to get himself in shape, and get a few wins, but it is what the WWF should be building towards.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Benoit needs a music video DAMNIT~!