Nader attempts to challenge results

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I remember him being on the ballot here, as well as all the other 3rd party candidates.

Where is here? Wisconsin?

[bobobrazil1984 0]

I think he's trying to tip NH to the Bush column, just so he can actually have some effect on the election this year and not be a complete useless non-factor. In 2000, in some states his vote total was greater than the gap between Gore and Bush.

This time.... not so much.

He strikes me as rather egomaniacal.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a man who was on the ballot in PA briefly thanks to the help of Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble is trying to expose voter fraud?

 

Ralph Nadar trying to prove voter fraud is like Ted Kennedy giving a speech about not drinking alcohol to high school students.

I don't think those stupid names being on the petitions were his fault. There were petitioners here at my university. You could walk up and write whatever name you wanted to on the petition. The signature lists should have been checked before submission, though.

 

Do you seriously think Nader is doing things out of malevolence or trying to be deceitful? I'm asking this seriously.

 

He may be a lot of things, but I don't think he's crooked.

[2GOLD 0]

I just think he's an egomaniac who wants to feel like he had an ounce of impact in the election.

 

like metr0man said

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I think he's trying to tip NH to the Bush column, just so he can actually have some effect on the election this year and not be a complete useless non-factor.

These irregularities favor President George W. Bush by 5% to 15% over what was expected.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I just think he's an egomaniac who wants to feel like he had an ounce of impact in the election.

 

like metr0man said

I disagree, for reasons already stated.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I remember him being on the ballot here, as well as all the other 3rd party candidates.

Where is here? Wisconsin?

Miami, Florida

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I remember him being on the ballot here, as well as all the other 3rd party candidates.

Where is here? Wisconsin?

Miami, Florida

Well then your previous question is a good one. I don't know the answer.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

By the way, Nader's challenge is officially on.

[Guest MD2020]

I've been watching the DU forums to see the paranoia and idiocy there (I would have done the same thing at freerepublic if Kerry won) and they seem to think that if fraud is proved in NH, then it means that fraud must have happened in Ohio or Florida or something, and then Bush will be thrown out and Kerry would win.

 

I would register and ask why they would fix NH when it means so little, but since I don't toe the exteme left party line, I'd get banned after one or two posts anyway, so I didn't bother.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

That makes no sense though. If fraud was proven in NH it has a greater chance of going against Kerry than Bush.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

That makes no sense though. If fraud was proven in NH it has a greater chance of going against Kerry than Bush.

Kerry's not challenging. Nader is.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I was referring to MD's post about the retard logic going on at the DU forums.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I was referring to MD's post about the retard logic going on at the DU forums.

they seem to think that if fraud is proved in NH, then it means that fraud must have happened in Ohio or Florida or something

 

These irregularities favor President George W. Bush by 5% to 15% over what was expected.

 

I guess this stuff would be why they think that. I dunno.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Typically fraud in such a small state would tip the scales in favor of whoever's side was committing it. So if NH gets recounted there's a greater chance that fraud happened on Kerry's side of things because he won the state.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I guess the variance in the exit polls and the final results is what they're pointing to as evidence of fraud on Bush's side.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I guess the variance in the exit polls and the final results is what they're pointing to as evidence of fraud on Bush's side.

The exit polls ARE NOT SCIENTIFIC!!! They were wrong in every state and had Kerry getting over 300 electorial votes. There were no exit pollers at my voting place and I'm sure most other people didn't see them either. And I would personally tell an exit poller to fuck off anyway. Exit polls are easily biased. Using exit polls as a reason to call fraud is retarded. I'll take the actual votes over the POS exit polling that's failed in 3 elections straight now. They were completely wrong in 2002 as well.

[NoCalMike 0]

For all those that are whining about Nader being an egomaniac, let me remind you AGAIN, that the Democrats are actually PUSHING NADER to do this. They are having people write letters to Nader urging him to challenge the ballot counts, and just overall fraud in general. Stop acting like Nader is just doing this out of the blue. Nader and his people will basically be doing the work, and then not getting the credit on the radio talk shows, when these democrat supporters start stealing his material and using it as talking points on their shows. If you listened to Air America for 5 minutes last week, you heard the hosts giving out Nader's email and address to write letters begging him to challenge the fraud. Of course these were the same hypocrites that said Nader is "insignificant" or does not deserve to have a voice etc........cause yes, this 70+ year old man, is just REEKING of ego

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

The exit polls ARE NOT SCIENTIFIC!!!

 

How are they any less scientific than any other poll?

 

They were wrong in every state and had Kerry getting over 300 electorial votes.

 

I think they were within the MOE in all states with paper trails.

 

And I would personally tell an exit poller to fuck off anyway. Exit polls are easily biased.

 

How are they biased more easily than any other poll?

 

Using exit polls as a reason to call fraud is retarded.

 

They're used in emerging democracies to detect fraud. What would you suggest would be a better reason to suspect fraud?

 

that's failed in 3 elections straight now. They were completely wrong in 2002 as well.

 

You're kinda proving their point here. The fact that exit polls had been accurate prior to 2000 and then they started becoming skewed in the past 3 elections seems suspect.

[Guest MikeSC]

The exit polls ARE NOT SCIENTIFIC!!!

How are they any less scientific than any other poll?

They are better than any other poll. That being said, nobody would have the audacity to file a suit because the polls were different than the final result.

They were wrong in every state and had Kerry getting over 300 electorial votes.

I think they were within the MOE in all states with paper trails.

And they were with MOE in the states where there wasn't one. A paper trail wouldn't derail the conspiracy theorists.

And I would personally tell an exit poller to fuck off anyway. Exit polls are easily biased.

How are they biased more easily than any other poll?

He didn't say "more" biased. They're not. They're easily biased --- as every poll is.

 

Still, nobody would actually file a suit because a regular poll and the final result was wrong.

Using exit polls as a reason to call fraud is retarded.

They're used in emerging democracies to detect fraud. What would you suggest would be a better reason to suspect fraud?

The Dems might not want to do this --- as I fully suspect sympathetic groups to the Dems are the ones who spun the polls.

 

I'll just say this: It's not that hard to pass word 'round to where the exit polls are taking place and having people, whether they voted they or not, participate.

 

The sexual breakdown (what was it, 57% female?) indicates a serious flaw.

that's failed in 3 elections straight now. They were completely wrong in 2002 as well.

You're kinda proving their point here. The fact that exit polls had been accurate prior to 2000 and then they started becoming skewed in the past 3 elections seems suspect.

Polls have become increasingly politicized --- INCLUDING exit polls.

 

What this shows is that the MSM should ignore exit polls COMPLETELY.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

For all those that are whining about Nader being an egomaniac, let me remind you AGAIN, that the Democrats are actually PUSHING NADER to do this. They are having people write letters to Nader urging him to challenge the ballot counts, and just overall fraud in general. Stop acting like Nader is just doing this out of the blue. Nader and his people will basically be doing the work, and then not getting the credit on the radio talk shows, when these democrat supporters start stealing his material and using it as talking points on their shows. If you listened to Air America for 5 minutes last week, you heard the hosts giving out Nader's email and address to write letters begging him to challenge the fraud. Of course these were the same hypocrites that said Nader is "insignificant" or does not deserve to have a voice etc........cause yes, this 70+ year old man, is just REEKING of ego

If I was Nader I'd probably tell them to go eff themselves.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

And they were with MOE in the states where there wasn't one.

Are you sure?

 

What this shows is that the MSM should ignore exit polls COMPLETELY.

Then I guess the questions we should ask are:

 

1) How can we keep the polls from being politicized?

 

2) If we don't use them, how else can we detect fraud?

[Guest MikeSC]

And they were with MOE in the states where there wasn't one.

Are you sure?

 

I'd be shocked if they weren't. And it wouldn't matter if they weren't, as we keep very good tabs on the votes and all. It really is shameless of the left to claim "fraud" every single time they lose an election.

What this shows is that the MSM should ignore exit polls COMPLETELY.

Then I guess the questions we should ask are:

 

1) How can we keep the polls from being politicized?

 

2) If we don't use them, how else can we detect fraud?

1) You cannot. Exit polls were felt to be impossible to spin, until some liberal groups did so. They've done so for the last 3 elections. It's a problem.

 

2) If voters feel they've been defrauded, then bring suit.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

They've done so for the last 3 elections.

 

Cite, s'il vous plait.

 

If voters feel they've been defrauded, then bring suit.

 

How would you know whether you were defrauded if you don't know if your vote was counted or not?

[Guest MikeSC]

They've done so for the last 3 elections.

 

Cite, s'il vous plait.

Bush was supposed to lose the electoral vote and win the popular vote in 2000. He did not.

 

The GOP was supposed to lose Congressional seats in 2002. They did not.

 

Bush was supposed to lose last week. He did not.

If voters feel they've been defrauded, then bring suit.

How would you know whether you were defrauded if you don't know if your vote was counted or not?

Thank the left groups that made them useless. These were clearly done to depress Republican voter turnout.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

It really is shameless of the left to claim "fraud" every single time they lose an election.

 

3 times in 3 consecutive elections over 5 years hardly qualifies as "every single time".

[Guest MikeSC]

It really is shameless of the left to claim "fraud" every single time they lose an election.

 

3 times in 3 consecutive elections over 5 years hardly qualifies as "every single time".

They've not lost regularly before the last 5 years. They started losing regularly and they immediately charge fraud.

 

You didn't see Republicans claim fraud under Clinton. You didn't seem them claim fraud when the Dems owned the Congress --- and ACTUAL fraud did occur back then.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Bush was supposed to lose the electoral vote and win the popular vote in 2000. He did not.

 

The GOP was supposed to lose Congressional seats in 2002. They did not.

 

Bush was supposed to lose last week. He did not.

 

That hardly proves that, as you said, "liberal groups spun the exit polls for the last 3 elections."

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

It really is shameless of the left to claim "fraud" every single time they lose an election.

 

3 times in 3 consecutive elections over 5 years hardly qualifies as "every single time".

They've not lost regularly before the last 5 years. They started losing regularly and they immediately charge fraud.

 

You didn't see Republicans claim fraud under Clinton. You didn't seem them claim fraud when the Dems owned the Congress --- and ACTUAL fraud did occur back then.

-=Mike

If that's so, then they should have claimed fraud.

[Guest MikeSC]

Bush was supposed to lose the electoral vote and win the popular vote in 2000. He did not.

 

The GOP was supposed to lose Congressional seats in 2002. They did not.

 

Bush was supposed to lose last week. He did not.

 

That hardly proves that, as you said, "liberal groups spun the exit polls for the lat 3 elections."

They absolutely did. What benefit do conservatives have in affecting polls against their candidates?

 

And in 2004, liberal blogs were the main ones peddling the numbers.

-=Mike