Sell me off of a national ID card.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I'm currently taking a World Politics and International Terorrism course, and the professor is a major proponent of a biometric national identification system. In recent years, I have heard many liberal circles crusade against such a system, and I have to admit, my ignorance on the subject had led me to oppose such a program. However, after hearing the argument on the side of such national identification programs, must confess, I find the arguments in favor of them to be quite compelling.

 

The only justification against such a program that I can come up with in this early hour of cramming before a midterm examination is the purely selfish desire to remain unidentified to the national government. So, Liberal Legions and Otherwise Loosely Affiliated Libertarians (LLOLAL!!), sell me off of (or onto, although I've already probably heard your arguments) national identification systems.

 

After all, this is far more enlightening than "DO THE DEMOSPLATS NEED EXTREME MAKEOVER©?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I like this idea in Canada if it means shorter wait times to get across the border. It is also good for people like my mother who don't have a driver's license and needs a valid photo ID.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

FWIW, expedition of travel is one of the reasons why proponents like the idea. It makes it easier to verify identification and the biometric aspect of it almost completely prevents forgery. In theory.

[AndrewTS 0]

In recent years, I have heard many liberal circles crusade against such a system, and I have to admit, my ignorance on the subject had led me to oppose such a program. However, after hearing the argument on the side of such national identification programs, must confess, I find the arguments in favor of them to be quite compelling.

Those upsides would be...(aside from the ones mentioned)?

 

It seems quite scary to me, actually.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

*Shrug* I really don't care, actually. If the New World Order is going to come after me, there's nothing I can do about it.

 

A driver's license should be good enough for this hippie National I.D. card, and for those that don't drive, then I see no problem with making some type of I.D. card for those people...

[The Czech Republic 0]

We have driver's licenses or non-license identification cards issued by the DMV. I don't see what more we really need, honestly.

[Guest Cerebus]

I don't think we need a national id card really. However, I think the best idea would to be have ONE design for every state's driver license/ID card. After all its unreasonable for anyone to expect airport employees to know what 50 different kinds of driver's licenses look like.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I don't think we need a national id card really. However, I think the best idea would to be have ONE design for every state's driver license/ID card. After all its unreasonable for anyone to expect airport employees to know what 50 different kinds of driver's licenses look like.

Yeah but then you get into states' rights and all, but in the end it's really a frivolous issue to apply it to. Anything involving the DMV is frivolous, of course.

 

What if we have the same general design with a space specifying the state in a prominent fashion? Then you get uniformity of the template with certain features unique to each state.

[Guest Cerebus]

I don't think we need a national id card really. However, I think the best idea would to be have ONE design for every state's driver license/ID card. After all its unreasonable for anyone to expect airport employees to know what 50 different kinds of driver's licenses look like.

Yeah but then you get into states' rights and all, but in the end it's really a frivolous issue to apply it to. Anything involving the DMV is frivolous, of course.

 

What if we have the same general design with a space specifying the state in a prominent fashion? Then you get uniformity of the template with certain features unique to each state.

State's rights? IT'S A FREAKING DRIVER'S LICENSE DESIGN!

 

Of course, maybe having the State seal in the top left corner would make sense, but not having completely different designs. My Connecticut driver's license looks nothing like a New York driver's license which looks nothing like a New Jersey driver's license etc. Someone should be able to look at a license and see if its an obvious fake right off the bat...sure that would make all the college kids who want to get into bars illegally wail like banshees but, if anything, this would encourage them to vote some more.

[The Czech Republic 0]

State's rights? IT'S A FREAKING DRIVER'S LICENSE DESIGN!

The best was when there were a bunch of people at school wearing Confederate flag paraphernalia around. When asked if they supported slavery, they said it was their fervent support of states' rights.

 

This was in Wisconsin, by the way, just to baffle you further.

 

Of course, maybe having the State seal in the top left corner would make sense, but not having completely different designs. My Connecticut driver's license looks nothing like a New York driver's license which looks nothing like a New Jersey driver's license etc. Someone should be able to look at a license and see if its an obvious fake right off the bat...sure that would make all the college kids who want to get into bars illegally wail like banshees but, if anything, this would encourage them to vote some more.

 

Yeah, I'm with you. Maybe the upper left can have the state's name written out (or the District of Columbia as well, you fucking whiners) but the general form looks the same, and maybe a different hologram for each state. And no more of those stupid vertical licenses.

[Guest Cerebus]

Yeah I just got my vertical license when I had to renew it. It blows.

[Slayer 0]

Someone should be able to look at a license and see if its an obvious fake right off the bat...sure that would make all the college kids who want to get into bars illegally wail like banshees but, if anything, this would encourage them to vote some more.

Hahahahaha

[Guest Vitamin X]

Funny enough, that's a strategy I'm about to use for a friend of mine who's between that nether-region age group of 18-21 (where's you're legal for most things, but not quite everything) and who wants to get into the clubs on South Beach. We're going to take a trip out to California, grab a fake, and use it out here since the people out here couldn't really spot the difference between a real one and a fake one.

 

Anyways, about the national identification system, I don't see any kind of reason to oppose it, as states' rights (in my opinion) can go fuck themselves since I believe in a more centralistic, national government. However, in the system we are working under, that would be the only major obstacle. That said, in a way there already is a sort of national identification card... it's called a US passport. What difference would there be between that and a national ID?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

It's more crap in my wallet. I vote no.

[Guest Cerebus]

That said, in a way there already is a sort of national identification card... it's called a US passport. What difference would there be between that and a national ID?

First, if somebody asks for your ID they're not asking for your passport, they are usually asking for your driver's license or equivalent state ID. Second, nobody is required to get a passport, in fact many Americans don't have one because they don't need one.

[Guest Vitamin X]

It's not necessarily required to have an ID either, unless you want to buy certain things or be authorized to do certain things, like drive and whatnot. A passport is the closest thing there is to a national identification card, you can get one anywhere and use it as a form of ID in most cases anywhere across the country. Of course, this doesn't count as a driver's license (which I assume is what you would be referring to), but that's not necessarily what we're talking about in regards to identification. Two different things.

[Guest Loss]

I would prefer that we just start barcoding babies at birth.

 

[The Metal Maniac 0]

It is also good for people like my mother who don't have a driver's license and needs a valid photo ID.

 

In at least some parts of Canada (I don't know if it has spread to all provinces yet, to be honest) you can get ID cards. They look just like driver's liscences, except they say "this is not a driver's liscence" on them. They do count as valid photo ID for all intents and purposes, though.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Anyways, about the national identification system, I don't see any kind of reason to oppose it, as states' rights (in my opinion) can go fuck themselves since I believe in a more centralistic, national government.

Well then go to that little island just south of Florida.

 

Can you get an ID card that's not a driver's license already? If so then there's no need for a national ID card...

[Guest Cerebus]

It's not necessarily required to have an ID either, unless you want to buy certain things or be authorized to do certain things, like drive and whatnot. A passport is the closest thing there is to a national identification card, you can get one anywhere and use it as a form of ID in most cases anywhere across the country. Of course, this doesn't count as a driver's license (which I assume is what you would be referring to), but that's not necessarily what we're talking about in regards to identification. Two different things.

I'm just saying when an authority figure says "show me your ID" everyone's thoughts don't go to thier passport. If this "National ID Card" thing were to fly it would, most likely, be required that people get one. Very different than a passport.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Anyways, about the national identification system, I don't see any kind of reason to oppose it, as states' rights (in my opinion) can go fuck themselves since I believe in a more centralistic, national government.

Well then go to that little island just south of Florida.

 

Can you get an ID card that's not a driver's license already? If so then there's no need for a national ID card...

Ha, not THAT centristic of a government. I think 3 levels of government (federal, state, and local) is a bit much, I'd be more in favor of a national and a subsequent regional government (larger scope than city, smaller than a state..) but that's a whole other conversation for another time.

 

And yes, you can get an ID card that's not a driver's license, at least in most places I've been to.

 

I'm just saying when an authority figure says "show me your ID" everyone's thoughts don't go to thier passport. If this "National ID Card" thing were to fly it would, most likely, be required that people get one. Very different than a passport.

 

True, but that's not what I'm saying. Though I think I'd need to ask if everyone would be REQUIRED to have one, because the system as of right now doesn't require you to have an ID for anything unless you want to be authorized to do certain things (A driver's license for driving, a state ID card which serves general identification purposes for proof of age). A US passport is the only thing you can use interstate as a general means of identification, and I'm not sure but I also believe it provides proof of age as well.

 

I think I also need to be sold on the idea of a national ID card as well. While it's useful for folks who travel and/or migrate interstate a lot, other than that I don't see a real point behind it. Everything seems alright with the way the governments work at present time. Although, since this whole idea seems to have been brought up as a national security issue, it WOULD be effective in preventing fakes since there's a universal design instead of state-specific.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

From Stephen E. Flynn's "The Unguarded Homeland" :

 

Validating users and operators as legitimate requires a layered private-public approach. For people, it is essential to move away from easily forgeable paper-based documents such as traditional visas or passports, and towards universal biometric travel identification cards that include electronic scanning of fingerprints, eye retina information, or a facial profile. These credit-card-like credentials would be issued by consulates and passport offices and presented at te originating and connecting points of an individual's international travel itinerary. This electronic identity information would then be forwarded in real time to the jurisdiction of the final destination. The objective would be to provide authorities with the opportunity to check the identity information against current watch lists. If no red flags are present, then it should not be necessary to conduct a time consuming and intrusive search. For noncitizens, the presentation of these cards would be required when renting cars, flying on domenstic flights, or using passenger tail service.

 

Any typographical errors are mine, not the author's.

[Guest Vitamin X]

That's far more 1984-ish than I'd like it to be.

[Guest Vitamin X]

EDIT: doublepost

[The Czech Republic 0]

I'm not sold on the "biometric" national ID card.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

But the thing is, what do you have to be scared about if you're not a criminal? It would, undoubtedly, be of immense help for our security forces.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Retina information?!?

[Guest Vitamin X]

I'm thinking for some reason, this has to violate some sort of civil right. Not quite sure what, but it sounds a little more intrusive than it has any right of being. Not to mention that this would entail a complete overhaul of the current identification system that eventually folks will find a way to get around anyways.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I feel properly and sufficiently identified at the present time.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I would think it violates a civil right too, but... it doesn't. At all. We don't have the right to be unidentified to the federal government. Nowhere in the Constitution, federal law, or state law does it say that we have the right to be unidentified.

 

And I don't think there's any way to fake retinal information, FWIW, and thus, that would make it improbable for people to get around it.