strummer 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 First of all, I respect Meltzer as the best provider of news in the wrestling world. My main problem with Dave is that he claims to be objective, or an "observer" of the wrestling world so to speak, but he clearly has biases and agendas. Every week at TSM I read the observer news and each week Meltzer's attitude starts to annoy me. His little snide remarks on Gene Snitsky this week prompted me to start this topic. I mean he outright makes fun of wrestlers he doesn't like. Plus, he praises wrestlers he likes and makes outlandish statements about them, such as "Ric Flair is still the best worker in the company"Is this an attitude a man with a degree in journalism should have? I mean do regular journalists make jokes about people they don't like in their columns. Maybe they do, but I don't think it's professional in the slightest. I also think Dave extrapolates and feels as he is speaking for the majority of wrestling fans, and I really doubt that he has the same tastes as the rest of the audience. I had the chance of reading Observers from the 80s and his ripping of Hogan and the WWF product at the time reaches absurd levels. I mean he clearly had it in for them and couldn't look at the company objectively. So my question, is Meltzer in the wrong for claiming to be objective and then doing the exact opposite or is it "it's his newsletter, his opinions, and you don't have to buy it if you don't want to"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 My 3 biggest peeves are his Ric Flair love, his obsession with wrestling being in the mainstream, and his Hall of Fame explanation. 1. Flair Jesus fucking Christ, he's covering Flairs daughters volleyball games! Subjects that have absolutely NOTHING to do with Flair still end up with an inexplicable amount of Ric Flair in them. Meltzer is talking about the recent Punk/Joe, invariably he will bring up Flair. Meltzer is talking about George W Bush, here comes the "GHWB loved Flair" line. Meltzer is talking about stem cell research, he'll ponder what would happen if Flairs genes were cloned so the next generation of wrestling fans can witness the splendor of the greatest wrestler who has ever lived ever. 2. "Hey Dave, what do you do for a living?" "I, uh, write about wrestling?" "Like, amateur wrestling, or that 'professional' wwf crap?" "Um... I write sometimes about amateur wrestling, and real fighting... mainly about professional wrestling... hey, did you see the pistons all wear pro wrestling belts?! NBA stars LOVE wrestling." "Ok, whatever" *a tear rolls down Daves face as he makes a fist and shakes it* Daves insecurites about his job are seen in every update he does. I imagine he tells his kid(s) that he really is a secret agent for the government, cause "wrestling writer" is fucking lame. 3. "He feels like a hall of famer", stupid fucking Meltzer. Stupid fucking Kurt Angle getting in on that reasoning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chazz 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Wade Keller of The Torch does It as well, although maybe not at the same level as Meltzer. He bashes just about everything Vince Russo has ever done, whether It was right or wrong, ever since Russo accused The Torch of being on The WWE's Payroll 4 years ago. Russo might have been out of line for saying this at the time, but everything Keller and Co. have written since then has been too. Also, Keller kisses Flair's ass as well, but not as much as The Melt does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Meltzer has actually gotten much more tight-lipped over the years in terms of telling us what he really thinks. There was a time when he had no problem at all bashing the hell out of something, but he's calmed down a little. Dave has his biases, just like everyone else, and in recent years, he's made a fool of himself at times. Keller. Keller is FAR, FAR worse. Keller does those stupid "devil's advocate" columns on his website and is often contrary only for the sake of being contrary. He marks out for the product, to the point where it clouds his better judgment. He once wrote a column excited about the possibilities of a Goldberg/Rodney Mack program. He kisses the Undertaker's ass more than anyone should. He panders to his sources. I think Meltzer is better able to get away with pandering to his sources, because Meltzer typically sides with the people his readership likes, and Keller goes against the grain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Keller. Keller is FAR, FAR worse. Keller does those stupid "devil's advocate" columns on his website and is often contrary only for the sake of being contrary. He marks out for the product, to the point where it clouds his better judgment. He once wrote a column excited about the possibilities of a Goldberg/Rodney Mack program. He kisses the Undertaker's ass more than anyone should. He panders to his sources. Keller is an absolute idiot sometimes with his 'Kellers Takes' columns. He's all over the place with some of his stuff, and his audio updates are incredibly long winded, and most of them see him ramble on for no reason it seems, other than just to ramble for the sake of it. He also contradicts himself a lot; in his review of SS, he says there was no baffling more maddening booking, but then at the end he indicates the booking of the 'Taker v Heidenrape match confused him. To be fair, almost everyone at The Torch is a joke, and I've found myself shaking my head at what they say more and more lately. The only decent guy there is James Guttman. As for Meltzer, yeah, he has his biases, the same as everyone else does, and while he's far from objective sometimes, he's still really the best writer on wrestling out there that I've seen. Bryan Alvarez is good too, but more humorous, though his verbal blowjobs of Shawn Michaels can get really nauseating at times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UseTheSledgehammerUh 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 The wrestling business would be a lot better off without Dave Meltzer. He's not a worker and his news does nothing but expose the locker rooms and inner workings of companies. His newsletter sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Pariah Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Then don't read it. Meltzer only exposes these things to people who actively go out and try to find out about them and he is the best at what he does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stahl 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 Thanks very much for your interest in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. The Observer is the No. 1 insider pro wrestling publication in the world, and is read by most of the major decision makers in wrestling as well as many of the leading wrestlers. Having been around the industry for so long, we have contacts in every office, but have a reputation of saying what we think. Not only will you find out the news, but you'll find out in most cases the thought behind the news as well as what's really going on business wise that shapes all the decisions. This is the first paragraph from Meltzers site when you click on "newsletter". Nowhere does he say he is "objective". He clearly states that he reports the news as well as his thoughts about the news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OSIcon Report post Posted November 21, 2004 The wrestling business would be a lot better off without Dave Meltzer. 75 percent of the legitimate news you read would be gone then. If you are saying that you don't like Meltzer because he "exposed" the business, that is just ridiculous. With or without Meltzer, that was inevitable. Better off blaming that on the promotors (like McMahon) and bookers (Vince Russo) who did their fair share to completely kill kayfabe on television. He's not a worker. Neither are you. Neither are 99 percent of the people on this board and all wrestling boards. Maybe we should all just stop talking about wrestling. What does Meltzer not being a worker have to do with his ability to report on and write about wrestling? His news does nothing but expose the locker rooms and inner workings of companies. Like I said above, this was going to happen with or without Meltzer. He gives inside news to those who want to know it. If you don't, then don't read it. Pretty simple. Meltzer DOES have his biases. However, it really doesn't effect his reporting, only his Op-ed peices. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted November 21, 2004 The wrestling business would be a lot better off without Dave Meltzer. He's not a worker and his news does nothing but expose the locker rooms and inner workings of companies. His newsletter sucks. I agree with all three sentences, however I only think that the newsletter sucks because it costs so much. Otherwise, it'd make good shitter reading material. Actually, I'll go a step farther. I think the wrestling business would be a lot better without the internet in general, not just Meltzer. Like I said above, this was going to happen with or without Meltzer. He gives inside news to those who want to know it. If you don't, then don't read it. Pretty simple. You're missing the big picture. It's not about one person not reading it, it's about the availability of it. The fact that it exists is a black tag on the business. At least in my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 Maybe this is idealistic, but I would like to read a newsletter that was professional and objective, and where the author doesn't call someone he is reporting on "Gene Shitsky". Maybe Meltzer never claimed to be objective, but maybe I assumed he was since he calls himself a journalist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 Nobody is objective. Whether they admit or not, their own views and biases affect their opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stahl 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 You're missing the big picture. It's not about one person not reading it, it's about the availability of it. The fact that it exists is a black tag on the business. At least in my min Yet it's the very business that is providing the information to Dave. Weather it be wrestlers themselves, agents, Good ol' JR or even Vince himself. Information Dave gets comes directly from the people in the business. Don't hate the messenger when the business is the one providing the information. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wrestling365 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 Was just wondering, what is everyone's opinion of Dave Scherer as a reporter here? His stuff seems to be taken from the previous week's observer/torch yet he regulary writes "i spoke to 3/4 wwe wrestlers last night and..." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J. Hungerford Smith 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 Call me crazy but without Meltzer and other news reporter wouldn't this site probably not exist? I mean the term "smart mark" comes from knowing "inside information" about the business does it not? I don't think I would enjoy wrestling as much without the inside perspective, I think it's interesting to know what goes on behind the scenes that we wouldn't be exposed to as just regular fans. I remember when I got the Internet in '97 when I was like 12 how amazed I was when I discovered all of this stuff. I mean I knew wrestling was pre-determined and all that stuff but I was amazed to find out about all the rumors about stuff that was going to happen, spoilers to pre-taped shows, etc. I think knowing more about what goes on has increased my respect for the business and the workers, knowing that it's about a lot more than just going out and working, and how they have to deal with certain troublesome workers' politics and causing trouble backstage. I respect Meltzer a great deal because out of every site I've read he's the only one who is consistently accurate, and I happen to enjoy the non-objectiveness. I think without it would be too formal and boring, I mean I may not always agree with him but it's interesting to hear other people's perspectives on matters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 Was just wondering, what is everyone's opinion of Dave Scherer as a reporter here? His stuff seems to be taken from the previous week's observer/torch yet he regulary writes "i spoke to 3/4 wwe wrestlers last night and..." Dave Scherer is an absolute joke, who is barely above Bob Ryder in the food chain. Around the time of the Invasion, 1pop-ups.con had a front page headline, stating that Bret Hart had signed with the WWF to lead the Invasion. A few hours later, however, the headlined had been changed slightly, to make it appear like they were asking if Bret had signed, rather than stating it as fact. When questioned on this, Scherer and co flat out denied that the original headline was ever there, despite numerous people seeing it and reporting on it. To this day, I don't think Scherer, Ryder, or anyone with 1W have admitted to the mistake. Scherer's own site, Pro Wrestling Insider, is just 1pop-ups, but with a different color scheme. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AboveAverage484 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 My 3 biggest peeves are his Ric Flair love, his obsession with wrestling being in the mainstream, and his Hall of Fame explanation. 1. Flair Jesus fucking Christ, he's covering Flairs daughters volleyball games! Subjects that have absolutely NOTHING to do with Flair still end up with an inexplicable amount of Ric Flair in them. Meltzer is talking about the recent Punk/Joe, invariably he will bring up Flair. Meltzer is talking about George W Bush, here comes the "GHWB loved Flair" line. Meltzer is talking about stem cell research, he'll ponder what would happen if Flairs genes were cloned so the next generation of wrestling fans can witness the splendor of the greatest wrestler who has ever lived ever. 2. "Hey Dave, what do you do for a living?" "I, uh, write about wrestling?" "Like, amateur wrestling, or that 'professional' wwf crap?" "Um... I write sometimes about amateur wrestling, and real fighting... mainly about professional wrestling... hey, did you see the pistons all wear pro wrestling belts?! NBA stars LOVE wrestling." "Ok, whatever" *a tear rolls down Daves face as he makes a fist and shakes it* Daves insecurites about his job are seen in every update he does. I imagine he tells his kid(s) that he really is a secret agent for the government, cause "wrestling writer" is fucking lame. 3. "He feels like a hall of famer", stupid fucking Meltzer. Stupid fucking Kurt Angle getting in on that reasoning. A couple friends of mine played in that same volleyball tourney. Uh, yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2004 Scherer is pretty good, his news is usually right, whether he steals it from Meltzer or whomever is another question Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
