How will Ric Flair be remembered

[Guest Brian]

Personally, while I wish that Flair would have retied years ago (at the very latest, when WCW was sold), he isn't tarnishing his legacy in my mind. To me, there are very things any person can do in the present to tarnish their legacy. For example, Michael Jordan had a couple of mediocre years for the Wizards. The team played poor and Jordan, while having momets that reflected his old greatness, was hardly the same player. However, to me, that doesn't effect his legacy in the sport at all. Regardless of what he did with the Wizards, he was *still* the greatest basketball player of all time....he just wasn't *as* good when he became older and riddled with injuries.

 

I view Flair the same way. He is a shell of his former self right now in every aspect: in-ring ability, prescense, importance, promos, ect. However, that still doesn't take away form the fact that in his prime, there may have never been as solid of an all around wrestler than Flair. His legacy to those who saw him in his peel, will be what the same as *most* professional athletes and pro wrestlers who are remembered as "great". Which is, at one time he was one of the greatest in pro wrestling and his skill diminished with age after a lengthy career. There are a ton of athletes we can say that about; guys who were great but stuck around long enough (or too long) to the point where their skills were greatly diminished. That doesn't take away from their legacy to the people that saw them perform in their primes.

 

The thing is, Flair sticking around so long has its positives and negatives. The negative has already been outlined. The positive, is that his WWF run and DVD release exposed him to a lot of fans that had *never* seen his work before. It is easy to say that Flair should have retired years ago and he could have gone out "on top" (or near the top) of his game, while being remembered fondly by most wrestling fans. Honestly, I don't know if that would have been true. By sticking around so long, he *has* been able to to get himself noticed by several eras of wrestling fans. It was short of a give-and-take deal.

 

It is sad but true that Flair probably won't be remembered by a lot of current fans for being as great as he was. Whether or not you feel Flair was overrated as a wrestler is inconseuqential, because most everyone who has seen his work in his prime willa gree that he was a great overall package. The best wrestler of all time in terms of in-ring skill? No. One of the, or the, greatest all around wrestling packages of all time? Yes. Too bad he probably won't be remembered that way, do in part to the fact that NWA and WCW are overlooked by many current fans.

As for the Michael Jordan analogy, he didn't hurt his legacy, but he did affect it. There was an aura of Jordan that he was so great, he could will others to be great, and that was squandered with the Wizards.

 

As for Flair, we also have to consider the changing demographics of the wrestling audience.

[Guest OSIcon]

As for the Michael Jordan analogy, he didn't hurt his legacy, but he did affect it. There was an aura of Jordan that he was so great, he could will others to be great, and that was squandered with the Wizards.

 

Sure. That was kind of the point though.

 

It was the difference between Jordan going out on top and not going on top. The thing is that years from now, we will still remember Michael Jordan has the greatest basketball player of all time and his stint with the Wizards will barely be remembered. Just like we never think about Willie Mays misjudging fly balls at the end of his career and finishing up with two below average seasons for the mets. So yea, it did effect his legacy but it didn't hurt it and as time goes by, any effect it has will lessen.

 

Pro Wrestling is different because history isn't engrained into the new fans as much as it is with baseball or any other sport. However, to those fans who have seen Flair's prime work, they'll remember him as being one of the all time greats. His legacy with those fans will be as an all time great and in some peoples' minds, the best ever, regardless of the below-average (and lengthy) twilight portion of his career. Just like with Michael Jordan. Newer fans probably won't think much of him, but that is less of a reflection on Flair then it is on how wrestling history is handled.

[Guest Brian]

He will be remembered for the great things, no doubt, but he will also have to be evaluated in light of his choices. The limited time he spent not at the top may not seriousl tarnish his legend. But it will change the way he is perceived, not what he accomplished.

 

Flair has to deal with nearly ten years of not being on top of his game. That's a much larger chunk of time than Jordan has to deal with. So it's going to be a lot harder to eliminate that period or gloss over it.

[Si82 0]

I used to think he'd be remembered in much the same way as Willie Mays, in that he hung around too long, but most of those memories will fade away in the public imagination. But he keeps on hanging around, so it's going to be tough to judge. Personally, I think it's tainted him pretty heavilly.

I think that will be countered by WWE OFFICIAL HISTORY deeming him the best EVAHHH!

Surely he'll be the second best ever...to Triple H of course. Who will no doubt have the backing of Flair.

 

This is an odd question in that, and most people have brought this up, he will be remembered very differently by different generations of wrestling fans.

 

Older fans will think he is the best ever, one of the best ever or a guy who pissed away what good will he had with them.

 

Newer wrestling fans, however, will probably remember as the crazy old man who used to kiss Triple H's ass every week.

[cabbageboy 0]

I do agree that hanging around too long can hurt your legacy. Thing is, you have to look at it from a couple of decades (like 2025 or so). By that point SURELY Flair would be retired and then we will begin to forget his mediocre later years. It seems like everyone has them: Jordan, Rice, Unitas, etc. It's rare that a great player or wrestler hangs em up when the time is right. Elway is one of the few who did, but he accomplished his main goal of winning the SB late in his career.

[Guest Brian]

I think you have to consider that Ric Flair hung around alot longer than any of those guys, in comparison.

[Promoter 0]

Okay, to put a new twist on this I ask when was the last time Ric Flair had a world title? Now compare that with Hulk Hogan. These little things do affect Flair's legacy I think. Hogan was pretty much trashed out of the wwf in 1993, yet he returned almost a decade later and STILL was crowned the WWF Champion. I guess this depends on if the question is asked towards hardcore fans or just fans in general. When was the last time Flair was REALLY on top. That MJ comparison is not the same because Jordan left pretty quick when he saw what he was doing wasn't improving his legacy. Hank Aaron/Pete Rose could also be mentioned in this, but at least they had a goal to accomplish and had reason to stick around. Muhammad Ali also got out just before ruining his with that last title match. For all the hate on Hogan I must admit that the man was smart enough to know he couldn't be looking up at the lights every damn night for the remainder of his last days. Hogan came back to prove something that Hulkamania ran wild in different eras which helped his legacy. Worked business or not it's pretty embarrassing to fall from the biggest and greatest star to a jobber. You pass the torch and go on although regardless of net thinking I believe Hogan jobbed way too much in his last stint in the wwf.

[Guest Brian]

Hogan will get a pass because in the end, people will look back and see success with every run he came back for. Not "money" success, but popularity, and he usually gets out just enough to not overexpose his image, which helps immensely.

 

I think the thing is, is that Jordan's Wizard's stint wil largely be regarded as a blip on his pro (and college) career, whereas Flair has kept on coming back long past that point. He's had a third of his career in a decline, when you think about it, with probably the last half of that bordering on embarassing.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Flair is closer to Michael Jackson than Michael Jordan when it comes to decline.

[Slickster 0]

Well, I really don't feel that Flair has declined *all that* much since his last World title run. He's been having good matches since his WCW Title win back in 00:

-against Sting on the last Nitro

-his RR02 match with Vince

-his 'no punches' match with Austin on RAW in 02

-his RAW match with HHH in Greenville in 2003

-his Vengeance tag match against La Rez

-his Unforgiven tag match with Batista

-and most recently, his cage match with Orton at TTuesday.

 

While I do agree that he has declined somewhat with age (he *is* over 50), I don't feel that we can really know just how much he's declined. This is simply because he hasn't really had to carry anybody at all, and IMO that was one of his strongest assets as a wrestler.

 

Once they put him in a position where he's got to carry someone like Tomko or Snitsky, then we can see just how much he's declined.

 

This talk of his legacy being tarnished is BS in my opinion. All the matches I listed above were praised by many in the IWC. I'm not saying he can reach ****1/2-*****-level matches like it's '93 again, but then again he's far from washed-up like many of his contemporaries (Terry Funk, anyone?). When he starts 'wrestling' like Sgt. Slaughter does today, then he's tarnishing his legacy. Until then, I've got no complaints.

[Guest OSIcon]

I'm not denying that his current run is effecting the way people view him and remember him. It has effected the way I view him. I joke and make fun of the often ridiculous way he acts these days and I've had no desire to go out of my way to see a new Flair match (PPV or otherwise) in a few years.

 

Yet he is still one of my favorite wrestlers ever (if not my favorite) because of how he was in his prime and even for a good bit past his prime. Conversely, I still view him as one of the best all around wrestler packages ever. Not the greatest wrestler ever. Not the greatest interview of all time. However as far as over all packages go (that is, being "very good" in a lot of areas), there aren't many who were better in their primes (or in Flair's case, even for some years after his prime).

 

No matter what he does *now* can't effect how good he was *then*. He was one of the best then, regardless of how good he is now and how long ago he should have retired. Fans that saw his own career will remember him that way. I do agree that his legacy will be hurt with newer fans, who only see the Flair ot today, though.

 

Well, I really don't feel that Flair has declined *all that* much since his last World title run. He's been having good matches since his WCW Title win back in 00[.

 

Define good. At best, some of those matches listed are "decent", "solid", or "passable". Which isn't really a bad thing considering there are guys half of his age whose best matches reach that same status. However, if a guy like Batista or whoever had a match on the level of some of those you listed for Flair, we'd probably just call it "solid" because that's really all they are. Regardless of age or any other outlying circumstances, Flair is still only having passable matches at best these days.

[Slickster 0]

I don't see where Flair's legacy is viewed any less by newer fans. With the Flair DVD's release, today's fans can see Ric Flair at his best.

 

I'm sure Harley Race's and Dusty Rhodes' legacies weren't recognized by the average WWE fans in the 80s, but fans today know that Race and Rhodes are legends.

[Slickster 0]

Regardless of age or any other outlying circumstances, Flair is still only having passable matches at best these days.

I still maintain that his legacy is secure until he can't deliver a 'passable' match; of course, I feel that Flair himself would recognize this as well and retire at/before he reaches this point.

[Guest Brian]

His "legacy" isn't based on passable matches.

[Slickster 0]

I never said it was. Was Andre the Giant's legacy based on being a terrible worker who could barely stand upright after 1987?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Wait...

 

Since when has Flair been doing passable matches?

[Slickster 0]

I take it you were not a fan of his Taboo Tuesday cage match.