Report: Pedro Martinez signs with the Mets

[the max 0]

You guys are like a cruel gang of 12 year old bullies picking on a little 10 year old. Leave damaramu alone. Or feel my wrath!

pshaw.

[DerangedHermit 0]

You guys are like a cruel gang of 12 year old bullies picking on a little 10 year old. Leave damaramu alone. Or feel my wrath!

Shut up you.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

oh, and here's the link

[Guest NaturalBornThriller4:20]

::Sigh::

 

You would think that the Mets would've learned from Roberto Alomar, Mo Vaughn, and Tom Glavine.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Out of all the players mentioned before, I think Pedro has a better chance to maintain his effectiveness for the next several seasons. His peripherals last year were still excellent, despite the rise in ERA. Martinez's problem was that he allowed 26 home runs. For comparison, he allowed 25 the three previous years combined. If this signing becomes official, Martinez moves from a hitters' park to a pitchers' park. And for those of you who didn't watch the Mets at all last year, they finished middle in the pack in runs allowed despite terrible walk and strikeout marks. Their defense is fairly good, and Martinez will benefit. Health is an issue, but you can say that for about half of the market.

 

There's no pitcher on the market close to Pedro's quality. I say thumbs up to the move, particularly with the money mediocre starters are making this year.

[DerangedHermit 0]

Out of all the players mentioned before, I think Pedro has a better chance to maintain his effectiveness for the next several seasons.  His peripherals last year were still excellent, despite the rise in ERA.  Martinez's problem was that he allowed 26 home runs.  For comparison, he allowed 25 the three previous years combined.  If this signing becomes official, Martinez moves from a hitters' park to a pitchers' park.  And for those of you who didn't watch the Mets at all last year, they finished middle in the pack in runs allowed despite terrible walk and strikeout marks.  Their defense is fairly good, and Martinez will benefit.  Health is an issue, but you can say that for about half of the market.

 

There's no pitcher on the market close to Pedro's quality.  I say thumbs up to the move, particularly with the money mediocre starters are making this year.

And no one is of his caliber in the NL East with the exception of Josh "Blisters" Beckett when he's on

[iliketurtles 0]

Well, Pedro made a big impact in Boston and he'll be missed. I for one was hoping he would return, so he could finish his career in Boston.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

There's a huge ass conspiracy now as to why Pedro was not resigned. I'm only posting it because it'll make for good convo.

 

Did you get the original message?

 

I need to protect my friends, because all hell will break

loose if I don't. They would know almost immediately if both XXX & ZZZ

were mentioned directly. (ONE XXX) is known to be friendly

with Mia Hamm and Nomar Garciaparra.

 

Also, if you could post without mentioning XXX’s position

at a PROMINENT NEW ENGLAND NEWSPAPER, it would be fine. You can say they have been there nearly 20+ years and is in a substantial position, but not anything else or they'll link

this to XXX, because they may have mentioned XXX’s work at some point. I can't be sure.

 

This is what happened: Henry apparently decided way back last February or

March that Pedro wasn't someone he wanted to keep. Actually, if he had

his way he'd wipe the slate totally clean of anyone that they didn't bring in

themselves. It isn't about the team so much as it is for Henry to have

chess pieces he can move around the Red Sox board of play. It's all about

control to Henry and he doesn't want anyone who was here before...anyone

at all.

 

Pedro was onto them back in late April. If you'll recall, he said

publicly that they were dirty dealers and were underhandedly trying to maneuver

himself, Tek, Nomar and Lowe out of town. I can send the article if you

wish. It was amazing in that it hardly got any real notice. Pedro took a

real chance doing it. He felt he had to speak up. That finished any

chance

of him ever remaining, in Henry's eyes. Henry will not brook anyone

speaking up like that; he finds it insubordination.

 

Larry gets angry, but gets over it. Larry also appreciates Pedro as a

premiere pitcher and a real competitor. He knows that Pedro is a good

game player himself. Larry can be dislikeable, but he isn't expressly devious

and he doesn't feel that these guys have to kowtow to him, as Henry does.

 

So Larry has wanted to offer Pedro the third year all along. XXX told

us this at least two weeks ago, maybe more. XXX said that Henry has to o.k.

everything...he micromanages to an unbelievable extent. Truly. He's got his nose in everything. And he has paid people looking over everyone's

shoulders. Theo answers first and foremost to Henry.

Theo has been selling himself out, piece by piece, over the last year and

a half. He specifically told Nomar and the press, one week before he traded

him, that he was not going to trade Nomar. All the time, Theo knew full

well that Henry had been waiting for the chance to get rid of Nomar. XXX thinks he (Theo)

had hoped it would not happen, but he never had any business saying that

to Nomar privately and then telling reporters the same thing, on a whim or a

prayer. And he (Henry/FO) lucked out big time, as you know. They (other MLB teams) saw him (Theo) coming and it's why he got so little for Nomar. They knew he (Theo) was under orders to dump Nomar

and they took advantage. It's true that Cabrera did well for us, he's a good

little player who was so unhappy where he was that it deeply affected his

play, some of us believe.

 

This is not a popular point of view with SoSH members, XXX knows, but it's true nonetheless. Some people, especially emotional ones like Cabrera, are deeply affected by their surroundings and

their emotional state. Nomar is another. It's why he signed with Chicago when Anaheim offered him a longer deal for a little bit better money. He is so thankful for Baker and the organization's dealings with him, that he wants to repay them for at least the next year and then see what happens.

He's so appreciative that he may never leave there, even though XXX can tell you definitely that Mia does not like the city of Chicago. Nomar made the FO aware of this fact last year, when he got to ST, telling them that if they wanted to trade him, to please try and make it a west coast team.

And he specifically mentioned that he would not want to go to Chicago because Mia dislikes it intensely. It's why, we think, they pushed so hard for Chicago to get him. This is Henry all over. He's a vengeful man and Nomar calling the station from his honeymoon was more insubordination. Then Nomar

told some people his side of things and it got out and that was MORE

insubordination. He was a marked man. He knew it, but he didn't quite

believe it until it happened. Nomar is a really naive guy in a lot of ways.

He just couldn't believe the fact that people would dislike him and not get

over things. All he wanted was an apology from them in ST. When he didn't

get it, he began to become unhappy. He wanted them to explain what had

motivated them and why they'd done it. He got no explanation of any kind

from any of them. Larry tried to reestablish a friendship with him, but

Nomar disliked him the most because he's the loudest and the most obvious.

Nomar is very bashful and also never really knew, up until he left

anyway, that it was Henry who was the biggest trouble. XXX knows that he does

realize this now. Because XXX has told his wife. And her friends, of whom XXX shares

one close relationship in particular.

 

I tell you all this because I need for you to believe me, I don't know

what else I can do, short of giving you XXX’s private email addy or phone

number

 

XXX stays in touch with Larry ….and managed to get back in between

…….(specific dates and occasions). But if Larry

is being misinformed, then this explains why XXX is.

XXX told ZZZ on Saturday night that Larry had convinced Henry to offer

Pedro the third year. They'd lost out on a couple of people they were

aiming for, and Pavano wasn't looking so good either. Larry convinced (or

so he thought) Henry that they needed to lock Pedro up or at least offer

him the third year in case they did lose Pavano. Larry has wanted Pedro back for at least the last few months, because he told XXX that he wanted him back.

 

Henry gave him the go-ahead and Pedro was pleased and told them this was

all he had been waiting for. He was ready to sign but they asked him to give

them the weekend and he (Pedro) could announce it on Monday, so as not to tie

Theo's hands at the GM meeting. Pedro agreed.

Then yesterday it's all over hell and creation that Theo is trying to

trade Manny. He (Theo) was talking deals for Piazza, Floyd, some other guy and that Japanese fellow (Matsui).

 

He (Manny) was just too out there, for one thing. Too many possibilities. Too

extreme. Insulting stuff. And he (Theo??) knew it and never planned to follow

through on any of them. He had it leaked and it was leaked for one reason

only - to upset Pedro and hopefully push him to sign with the Mets or

whoever else, but preferably the Mets. Then they figured they could

really ditch Manny cause he'd be glad to go.

 

The problem is that Pedro is wise to them and knows enough not to

overreact. He's got it out there through his agent that he is intending to sign but

wants an assurance from the Sox. Well, he's not getting that assurance.

He's not getting his point of view out there at all to this point. Maybe in the papers tomorrow, but probably not much. The Globe is hopeless. Just hopeless. It's Henry's spin and nothing else.

Either way, the Pro Jo may be the only hope Pedro has of getting anything

about his side of this printed in New England. And someone close to him

is going to have to speak on the record, while skirting the issue about

Manny, since no one would believe it anyway.

 

As XXX says in closing-

“I realize that if too much of this subterfuge stuff gets said, it turns

everyone off. Hey, I am Irish and as straight out as you can get. I don't

have a sneaky bone in my body. I hate this stuff and am the last one to

look for it. I still figure people are usually out front with their

motives, because I am. Even though I'm nearing 50 years old, I still tend

to think this way. It's taken me a while to see just how surreptitious

Henry is. I was convinced for the first year or so that Larry was the

main problem.

 

I don't know...you are the member there and I read the place and it's darn hard to get anyone to see anything wrong with these owners, cause very little gets out there. And even what does, is usually bits and pieces and no one puts the whole together. There's not enough out there to do it.

And given Henry's reach in New York and New England, there probably never will be.

 

So you might want to keep it very careful and note that Pedro did appear

ready to sign, by all indications. Then the Manny rumors yesterday, that

were just too varied and too complex to all be mere "rumors". I don't

know

if the board would accept that it was disinformation, because that's what

it was. Maybe they would accept it if the FO weren't directly blamed for it.

I don't know. But I do know, from reading these guys, and not just them,

everybody mostly, that you just can't seem to point out anything about the players and have it even considered. And what bothers me is that this

isn't just recent; since they won the Series. I was trying to point stuff out from June on and no one would even consider it. Even when they'd known Nomar for nearly 10 years. Even when Lowe spoke up publicly and said they wanted him to fail this year. Even when Pedro said what he did on May 1

and accused them of trying to degrade his career while also trying to get rid

of him. Even Varitek, who has said quite a bit for him, but has decided to

play hardball with them big time. His agent, we are told from people who

do know about Jason, Scott Boras, leaked some disinformation of his own to

them through channels and they were led to believe Miller was a lock. They had

no intention of even dealing with Jason or Mirabelli, who was ready to

sign with Detroit.

 

Then when Miller fell through, they were outraged and stuck. Boras must

have called in a favor cause he not only got Doug Mirabelli a huge raise,

but Jason Varitek has them literally right where he wants them. I am told

that they have evidence of attempted collusion in the Miller matter. You

can bet Mirabelli wouldn't have been given the substantial raise he was

given if they didn't. Jason appreciates Doug and they are close. Jason

Varitek is one smart cookie. He and Nomar are much closer than most

people realize and he knows full well what was done to him. He'll probably say

something some day.

In the meantime, they have them. They don't have to have anyone else on

the table. They don't need to. They have all four of them where they want

them. With proof of attempted collusion with regards to Miller. Scott somehow found out that's who they were planning to replace Jason with.

And he set them up, somehow. He had a whole year to work on it, since Jason

made it clear last ST that he knew the team was going to be dismantled

this year. He said so publicly, but nearly everyone missed that too.

So here's what I know as of 8:30, which is what it is now. Pedro is

trying to get some word to somebody, and I don't know who. I don't know if he

realizes that Larry is the one he should appeal to. I heard he was trying

to reach Werner, which is useless. Werner will report anything to Henry.

He doesn't really like to get involved.

I have no way to reach Pedro Martinez myself, as I have only met him

briefly and he has no idea who I am. I hesitate to call on Mia Hamm to get poor

Nomar involved with this thing, as he has had enough trouble already and

it trying to get on with his life. They can still make a lot of trouble for him too, if they want to. Especially with the steroid thing heating up

and two of them, Henry and Lucchino, in the mix to smash the players union.

They want a salary cap in place immediately, as the mlb forms that have to

be filled out this year have made QUITE the difference in the salaries, haven't they? The players are not stupid and they know full well the

owners have been signaling each other the last few years.

Now the owners are going to use this steroid issue to try and destroy the

union. Schilling, whom I dislike immensely as you may know, or if you

don't, Tiegs can tell you, has said that they do not trust mlb to do the

testing. This is true. When Schilling says something against the owners,

you should really listen because he sleeps with the devil that gives him

what he wants, usually.

 

They not only don't trust them, they actively think that the people in mlb

would falsify test results to control players. They'd pick some poor

player and make an example of him. To let the others know that if they don't

play ball to the owners' specific tunes, they'd be destroyed. Yes, it's gotten

that bad. This is what the majority of players who are involved in the

union think. Schilling actually said it outright and for once, I liked

the fact that he can't keep his mouth shut.

 

The Red Sox owners are the most dangerous in the game today. Far more

dangerous than Steinbrenner. He is an unpredictable nut who has temper

tantrums and can't stand losing, but he's not viscious and he's not

against the players having some say about themselves. Just that they have to

perform. This Giambi thing is because Steinbrenner feels he didn't pay

any attention to what he was actually doing to his body and showed no

restraint or common sense about it. George feels this kind of recklessness should

cost him his contract. But he'll settle for getting it reduced on his

end, we suspect.

 

But these guys...with Selig in their corner all the way,....are very

dangerous. Especially John Henry. Lucchino is only with these guys

because he was moved at the last minute and he isn't a full partner. Werner is,

but he's the one who gets his show business links through New York and Henry's

reach at the Times and various other papers. Henry has fingers everywhere

in New York. He has trusted friends within the Yankee organization. That

whole "Evil Empire" stuff was Henry and Werner pumping Lucchino up for

show business effect. Lucchino is competitive and likes to be up against

someone...but that's all. He isn't a bad sort, when compared to Henry and

even Werner, who is just completely amoral. Not immoral. Amoral.

 

But due to circumstances beyond my control, I got drawn in slowly over the

last offseason when XXX began telling YYY about poor Nomar and what was

happening to him. I barely knew Nomar at that time and considered him to

be a nice guy who had funny ways and tried too hard and jinxed himself. I

believe he was the heart of the team. They beat on without him, mostly

because of Ortiz and Varitek and Muellar and Millar too, though I don't

like that little weasel anymore at all.

 

> I don't know.....you'll have to decide how much to say and how best to say

> it. Henry and Theo will be aware of it within a half hour or so after you

> post, so you'll have to write as if anything I told you, if you go with my

> story and don't just type it as a question mark, that anything much you

say

> in the way of specifics leaves me open to discovery. This will lead to,

> probably, divorce court, and certainly will lead to XXX losing his

> retirement and XXXand Larry too will be in big hot water.

>

> So proceed with caution. You know best how to convince these guys by now.

> I don't know how to move men's minds when they are made up like this. And

> especially guys like this, because if they can't see it on a stat sheet,

> most of them don't believe it exists.

>

> It's up to you. But I wouldn't wait too long.

> I am going to email this to Tiegs. But again, time is of the

> essence. It's getting onto 9:00 p.m.

 

Link

[iliketurtles 0]

Translation? I think that John Henry wanted nothing to do with Pedro?

[The Czech Republic 0]

Damn right Nomar should stay here. And I don't know why Mia doesn't like our fine little town we have going.

[Precious Roy 0]

It's a nice conspiracy theory, but regardless of it's validity I've maintained all along that the Red Sox are on the road to sabotaging their own chances by disregarding clubhouse chemistry and guys who are emotionally attached to the city and team in favor of "moneyball" or a belief that the front office is omnipotent. There was a lot more than just statistics involved in the Red Sox winning last season and Henry/Epstein seem intent on putting that theory to the test by letting the veteran, adversity tested Red Sox players loose.

 

I know how this goes, I've seen it happen to the Yankees and it isn't pretty. Sometimes keeping your players is the most important thing, no reason to mess with success.

 

As it stands Boston will let Lowe and Pedro walk and probably trade Manny if they have their way. What effect does losing Pedro and Manny have on Ortiz? They'd let Varitek go if they thought they could get a cheaper replacement. I don't think they repeat next year, it's a team that's giving me a bad vibe, just like New York in recent off-seasons.

[iliketurtles 0]

If Ortiz goes, then the city will riot. And just because Pedro is gone doesn't mean the team is dead.

 

I think that Varitek will be resigned...talks with Lowe should at least be tried again (but I think the bridges have been pretty much burned) and they should go after Matt Clement, or Hudson, or another star pitcher. David Wells isn't just going to cut it.

 

As much as I hate to see Pedro go, it does free up tons of money.

[Precious Roy 0]

If Ortiz goes, then the city will riot.

Ortiz won't leave because Boston has him locked up on the cheap, but it seems to me that his blossoming as a player has had a lot to do with the camradderie and friendship he has with Manny and Pedro and it's possible that without his boys in the clubhouse he regresses. This was a team that genuinely likes each other, and I don't understand why you want to mess with winning chemistry.

[Bored 0]

It's a nice conspiracy theory, but regardless of it's validity I've maintained all along that the Red Sox are on the road to sabotaging their own chances by disregarding clubhouse chemistry and guys who are emotionally attached to the city and team in favor of "moneyball" or a belief that the front office is omnipotent.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet we've found our excuse for the Moneyball bashers if the Red Sox don't repeat.

 

Chemistry, smemistry. The '72-'74 A's say "what the fuck?"

[iliketurtles 0]

If Ortiz goes, then the city will riot.

Ortiz won't leave because Boston has him locked up on the cheap, but it seems to me that his blossoming as a player has had a lot to do with the camradderie and friendship he has with Manny and Pedro and it's possible that without his boys in the clubhouse he regresses. This was a team that genuinely likes each other, and I don't understand why you want to mess with winning chemistry.

Ortiz could always be traded, and because of that contract makes him even more appealing.

 

I totally agree with you about the team chemistry and I think that Pedro should of finished his career in Boston with teammates he likes and fans that respect him and admire him. Pedro might have been sick of the constant hounding from all of us in Red Sox Nation, but it was definately in the best intrest.

 

NECN is showing interviews with people saying "We don't need Pedro anyways" and I think that's pretty typical. He obviously had a big load of how this team ended up after being in Boston for seven years.

[DerangedHermit 0]

There's a huge ass conspiracy now as to why Pedro was not resigned. I'm only posting it because it'll make for good convo.

I didn't know a person could have a B on their tin foil hat.

[Precious Roy 0]

One team is the exception, not the rule. In general if you win in sports it's because the team comes together, not because they play in spite of each other and the organization.

[Bored 0]

But, but, but, but they have SCHILL!!!! He pitched with an amputated ankle and fetus growing out of his head or something.

 

I find it funny people are worried about team chemistry from a team that was mainly made up of free agents.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Chemistry, smemistry. The '72-'74 A's say "what the fuck?"

The 98-00 Yankees say worked for us.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Pedro wants it so he doesn't need to take an MRI if he signs with the Mets. Jayson Stark says its because his rotator cuff is 90% torn from the few doctors he's spoken to.

 

If the Mets sign him to this deal without him having to pass a complete physical then its a giant joke. It will come of note that before his great start against St. Louis his starts over the last month ranged from mediocre-awful. The man was shelled in New York and Tampa Bay along with giving up around 4 runs a game in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

It's a nice conspiracy theory, but regardless of it's validity I've maintained all along that the Red Sox are on the road to sabotaging their own chances by disregarding clubhouse chemistry and guys who are emotionally attached to the city and team in favor of "moneyball" or a belief that the front office is omnipotent. There was a lot more than just statistics involved in the Red Sox winning last season and Henry/Epstein seem intent on putting that theory to the test by letting the veteran, adversity tested Red Sox players loose.

 

I know how this goes, I've seen it happen to the Yankees and it isn't pretty. Sometimes keeping your players is the most important thing, no reason to mess with success.

 

As it stands Boston will let Lowe and Pedro walk and probably trade Manny if they have their way. What effect does losing Pedro and Manny have on Ortiz? They'd let Varitek go if they thought they could get a cheaper replacement. I don't think they repeat next year, it's a team that's giving me a bad vibe, just like New York in recent off-seasons.

Clubhouse chemestry is nice and all, but you can't let semantics get in the way of a business decision. There are legitimate concerns to signing Pedro Martinez and Jason Varitek to long term contracts. It has nothing to do with an omnipotent front office getting carried away with statistics. There's a fine line between keeping your team together, and overpaying your friends because they're your friends. Good teams have been killed by that sort of thing. That the players are experienced does little to change their potential value pattern. Varitek may have won the World Series, but he's still an aging catcher. Martinez may have won the World Series, but he's still an injury risk. Derek Lowe may have won the World Series, but he still has a mediocre strikeout rate.

 

Even Bill James and his ilk will tell you that there might be something to clubhouse chemestry. Regardless, clubhouse chemestry is not something you build your team around. It's one of the last things you worry about, about the same time you are choosing the 25th man on the roster.

 

As for your point about the Yankees, that team with its players intact would be no more impressive than the group that lost to the Red Sox, and probably less so. For one thing, Brosius, O'Neill, and Knoblauch retired. Fans complain that Pettitte left, but they miss the point that he was injured for most of last season anyway. Tino? Jason Giambi torched his performance until last season, and Tino's 37 at this point anyway. The reason the Yankees lost isn't because they gave up their clubhouse guys. It's because you can't guarantee victory in a 30 team league.

[Precious Roy 0]

Letting Knobby go wasn't a problem, he was an severe underachiever in NY. Brosius and O'Neil retired, fine. O'Neil probably would have stuck around another season if the front office wanted him to and been a clubhouse guy, Brosius too, but ok, whatever. But letting Tino go, letting Pettite go, treating Wells like shit, that's the stuff that's hurt NY. Tino struggled in STL and Pettite got hurt, so what, I'd argue that they'd have both been fine if they'd remained in pinstripes. Now there's rumours that Bernie might be on the way out. I've got no problem with making improvements and bringing in new players, but it doesn't have to come at the expense of dyed in the wool players. Did NY get any benefit from letting Pettite walk? I can't see any. Now apart from Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Bernie, Matsui and maybe Moose and Sheff who've "earned their stripes" no pun intended we've got a team full of guys that NYers are either apathetic towards or actively dislike. A lot of Yankees fans resent A-Rod, we've never accepted Giambi with open arms, it's hard to get behind these pitchers they're bringing in, and the mercenary attitude that it breeds causes shit like the ALCS collapse.

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

I'm not really that broken up over it since I'm not a real fan of the team anyway.

Edited for accuracy, despite my undying love for 25 Major League teams, oh wait I like the Nationals now too, because Lindsey Lohan has their logo tattooed on her nipple.

RSN!

[The Man in Blak 0]

It's funny how everybody feels like you can't win without "clubhouse chemistry", even though there have been championship teams that have hated each other and tons of "happy" teams that never even sniffed the playoffs.

 

Did NY get any benefit from letting Pettite walk? I can't see any.

 

Well, having Pettitte would have meant that the Yankees had no need to trade for either Brown or Vasquez, both of whom contributed to the Yankees' playoff berth. No matter how much the Yankee fandom hates both of those players, you can't realistically argue that it would be better to have a handful of starts in the regular season from Pettitte than the seasons that Brown and Vasquez turned in.

 

Now apart from Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Bernie, Matsui and maybe Moose and Sheff who've "earned their stripes" no pun intended we've got a team full of guys that NYers are either apathetic towards or actively dislike.

 

Explain to me how Mussina and Sheffield (especially Sheffield) have earned their "stripes", even though they were free agents just like Giambi and Matsui.

 

All of the players that you listed were responsible, with the rest of the team, for the ALCS collapse. What excuses Jeter from hitting .200 with a .233 slugging percentage in the Championship, but damns A-Rod for having an .894 OPS with two homers, eight runs scored, and five RBIs?

[Damaramu 0]

One of my local sports radio guys sounds like he is going to cry over the loss of Pedro.

I'm still positive this won't really affect Boston at all.

Unless the universe pulls a screwjob and he wins a Cy Young.

[Precious Roy 0]

Well, having Pettitte would have meant that the Yankees had no need to trade for either Brown or Vasquez, both of whom contributed to the Yankees' playoff berth. No matter how much the Yankee fandom hates both of those players, you can't realistically argue that it would be better to have a handful of starts in the regular season from Pettitte than the seasons that Brown and Vasquez turned in.

 

That's just way off.

 

We would have had Moose, Pettite, Lieber, Weaver and a questionable Contreras as their rotation. Don't forget we also lost Clemens AND Wells after 03, those were our big three. We still would have sought to trade Weaver, only we'd be keeping our only left handed starter, a lifetime Yankee who came up with Jeter/Rivera in the farm system, and a guy who'd delivered in the playoffs. Pettite walking really isn't related to Brown/Vazquez, because even with Pettite we were still bringing some new SPs in.

 

And for the record, I like Vazquez and I see no reason for management to have soured on him so quick, I think we overworked him in the first half last year, and as bad as Brown was in game 7 I'm not calling for his head like a lot of hair-trigger fans.

 

Explain to me how Mussina and Sheffield (especially Sheffield) have earned their "stripes", even though they were free agents just like Giambi and Matsui.

 

I was reaching and said maybe, because I can't speak for every Yankee fan, but of all the post-championship free agent guys I'd say Moose and Sheff have the most acceptance from Yankees fans. We've had Moose for 4 years now and he's been pretty consistent, pitched pretty well in the playoffs, and Sheff earned a lot of brownie points for his clutch hitting last year and playing through injury the entire season. Sheff got more acceptance than Giambi or A-Rod. Matsui is a Yankee the same way Ichiro is a Mariner, we're the only MLB team he's ever played for, the only American team he wanted to play for, and he's performed very well for us. I've never thought of him as a "free agent" like a Giambi or Sheff because it was a different situation.

 

All the others were part of the championship teams, so obviously a true Yankees fan will be forever indebted to them. Jeter has some margin for error, ya know?

 

A-Rod is a unique case, and I'm generalizing, but the general sentiment from Yankees fans isn't one of overwhelming support.

 

The truth is that with our success in the 90's and all the beloved players those teams produced we expect a lot from our players, and the only way to be truely accepted is to win and produce in the clutch.

[CanadianChris 0]

The New York Mets are the Washington Redskins of MLB...paying huge sums of money to aging players who used to be good but clearly no longer are, and watching them flop once they put on the Mets uniform.

[KingPK 0]

So now Pedro doesn't want to get an MRI on his shoulder as part of his physical, instead wanting a stress test on it. If the Mets agree to that, then they deserve each other.

[Damaramu 0]

So now Pedro doesn't want to get an MRI on his shoulder as part of his physical, instead wanting a stress test on it. If the Mets agree to that, then they deserve each other.

So they know that it's injured. Everyone and their dog knows it. But they aren't going to do the MRI so he can go ahead and pass the physical and they can have him anyways even though that thing could go at anytime?

That's screwed up.....

[mike546 0]

Moose has defintley earned his stripes. Hes basically been the stopper against Pedro since he came to the Yankees. I swear they faced each other like five times on year, with Moose winning them all. Moose won game three in the 01 ALDS at Okaland, saving our season. Saved our lives against Sox in 03 ALCS with the awesome relief work.

 

Was the stopper in the playoffs this year, should have beat Santana, nearly no hit the Sox in game one, and should have won game five at Fenway.

 

Hes defintley earned his pinstripes.