The OAO AFC CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD!!!

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

If you go for it and don't make it, you lose the game right there. Cowher made the right decision.

Did Cowher win the game though? He settled for the FG, still lost by 3 major scores. I think the discussion is purely from this current standpoint and looking back and correcting what went wrong. Some people feel the FG/not going for the TD was a major reason the Steelers lost, and in hindsight wanted to change that one thing to make a more positive result. I agree with you alkeiper though, Pats were gonna win no matter what if they went for the TD or settled for the FG.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I'm done here, I just had to vent about some things that I didn't get to vent about when the game was on. It's sad that the Steelers didn't get to cap off a good season with a trip to the Superbowl.

[Precious Roy 0]

As a Patriots fan, I gotta say I was pretty disapointed that they kicked a FG, because right there I knew the game was over, and it looked like the Pittsburgh fans felt the same way. At home, on the 3 yard line, you have to go for it. With the halftime deficit they were working against and the momentum they were trying to build it was stupid to play conservative. You have to show faith in your offense.

 

If he had a chance to do it again I bet Cowher would go for it.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

If you go for it and don't make it, you lose the game right there.  Cowher made the right decision.

Did Cowher win the game though? He settled for the FG, still lost by 3 major scores. I think the discussion is purely from this current standpoint and looking back and correcting what went wrong. Some people feel the FG/not going for the TD was a major reason the Steelers lost, and in hindsight wanted to change that one thing to make a more positive result. I agree with you alkeiper though, Pats were gonna win no matter what if they went for the TD or settled for the FG.

The Patriots scored again afterwards. Even if they had scored the TD, would that have been any different?

 

They would have lost the game anyways. But going for the FG kept them in it for the time being. At they gone for it and not gotten it, it would have been over. Ignore the fans. Look at last year in the divisional playoffs. Sherman lets his team talk him into going for it on 4th & 1, and they didn't get it. They kick the FG and they advance. Cowher made the right move at the time.

[Ripper 0]

They had to go for a FG. A FG and a converted touchdown would tie the game then. You reduce it to two scores. If you go for it and don't make it, you lose the game right there. Cowher made the right decision.

No, they still would have been down one.

 

I am just saying, by taking the field goal, you made your team need to score another 2 times against this defense to get the lead, while if you go for the touchdown they only need to score once for the tie.

[nl5xsk1 0]

It contradicts my earlier statements, but I'm posting it anyways ... from TMQ's latest article:

 

Trailing the defending champion Patriots 31-17 with 13:32 remaining, Pittsburgh faced fourth-and-goal on the New England 2, home crowd roaring at experimental-scramjet decibels. You're down by two touchdowns. You have the league's No. 2 rushing attack. Your opponent's best defensive lineman is wearing street clothes. It's the playoffs, there is no tomorrow. You cannot win a monster game unless you are willing to seize the day. And you can't dance with the champ, you have to knock him down: you must go for it. In trotted the field goal unit. Above my house, skies darkened and lightning flashed as the football gods showed their displeasure. After the field goal the score was 31-20 -- meaning Pittsburgh was still down by two touchdowns, nothing had been accomplished. The Steelers would have been better off going for it and failing, showing courage and pinning the Patriots against their goal line, than launching a mincing fraidy-cat kick. After the field goal you could practically see on Patriots players' faces this thought: They are afraid of us. Suppose positions were reversed and the Patriots, trailing 31-17, faced fourth-and-goal on the Pittsburgh 2 in the fourth quarter. Is there any chance, any chance in all the world, Bill Belichick have let his opponent off the hook by kicking? You know the answer.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

You truly have to look at the situation of the game.

 

They were done at halftime. The Steelers didn't have a prayer, and somehow, they came back to make a game of it. They had momentum on their side, and they had the Patriots reeling. You have to keep the momentum going, but when you kick a FG and decide to sit back, the game is over. You're just playing to keep it respectable.

[2GOLD 0]

You truly have to look at the situation of the game.

 

They were done at halftime. The Steelers didn't have a prayer, and somehow, they came back to make a game of it. They had momentum on their side, and they had the Patriots reeling. You have to keep the momentum going, but when you kick a FG and decide to sit back, the game is over. You're just playing to keep it respectable.

 

Bingo.

 

The Patriots were in trouble, their backs were against the wall and the Steelers defense was beyond pumped. The crowd was alive and back in it. A trip to the Super Bowl is on the line. So what do you do....kick a field goal, kill your crowd, make the Patriots defense regain confidence since they kept you out of the end zone and just end your chance at the Super Bowl.

 

I expected the Steelers to go for it and no chance in hell would I be second guessing Cowher had he went. He had the crowd, he had the momentum and he had one of the best defenses in the NFL on their heels.

 

No guts, no glory.

Cowher had no guts, the Steelers fans didn't get to celebrate the glory.

[smh810 0]

Alright Steeler fans for the last time I'm gonna spell it out for you so you can comprehend this, YOU WOULDNT HAVE SCORED. The whole no guts no glory arguement is complete bullshit. There would have been no glory you still would have lost. As I've said many times in this thread, the third down run for Bettis was writing on the wall that no matter what play the Steelers would have or could have run on fourth down they would not have scored a TD. Getting nothing would be more of a death knell than kicking a FG. Now, you can criticize the Steelers on their sequence of plays but the bottom line is on Fourth down and 2 you must kick the FG. I dont care what TMQ, ESPN, CBS, FOX, the NAACP or the SPCA says, in the grand scheme of things Cowher made the right call that would guarantee him points.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Have you realized you're in the minority when it comes to that opinion? Have you wondered why?

 

There's no guarantee the Steelers WOULDN'T have scored. I agree with Tyler. With the way the Patriots were able to dictate the pace of the game at that point, going for the FG, regardless of it being sure points on the board, would not have been better than nothing since being down by 11 is just as good as being down by 14; it's still a 2 possession game. Had they gotten the TD, that would have cut the deficit and made it a one-score game. It was an idiotic call no matter how you look at it.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

EXACTLY.

 

An 11 point deficit is no different than a 14 point deficit at that point in the game. Factor in momentum, and it's a no-brainer unless you're a huge-chinned Ohio native named Cowher.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Not to mention 2 point conversions aren't easy to get.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Another great point.

[bob_barron 0]

Given that they were on the 2 and it seemed like the Patriots had done a good job of stopping the run- I don't think they would've scored.

 

Better to take 3 then get stuffed at the end zone and kill any momentum.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

You don't seem to understand that by going for the field goal, they DID kill any momentum. The crowd fucking BOOED their own team for being such spineless, lily-livered twatrocks.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Anyone ever consider the possibility that:

 

1. It didn't necessarily have to be a run. It could very well have been a bootleg and had Ben try to be the hero. That would have been a real defining moment for his career if he got the TD that would have put the Steelers back in it.

and

2. If you get stopped on the opponents' 2 yard line, they take over at the exact same spot. You're practically guaranteed another possession unless you have a terrible defense (which the Steelers obviously didn't) and you have the chance to get a safety, which ultimately could turn any game around in a huge way.

 

EDIT: This also prompted me to wonder an interesting trivia question, if anyone could look it up: What's the winning percentage of teams that have notched a safety in a game? This obviously is not counting any games where both teams scored a safety.

[bob_barron 0]

You don't seem to understand that by going for the field goal, they DID kill any momentum. The crowd fucking BOOED their own team for being such spineless, lily-livered twatrocks.

Do you think the crowd would've booed had they gone for it and not converted?

 

You're a Steeler fan so I'm just curious

[2GOLD 0]

When they kicked that field goal, they nailed their own coffin shut. I nearly ordered a "Thank you" basket of meats and cheeses for Cowher for pussing out.

 

I was literally left STUNNED by that decision.

And it was the first time I ever said before the 0:00 was on the clock

"....New England just won this game"

 

As a Patriots fan, that was like a gift from Bill Cowher to take a field goal.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Do you think the crowd would've booed had they gone for it and not converted?

 

No, they booed because it was a lily-livered, Schottenheimer decision. Had they not scored, it may have taken some of the wind out of the crowd, but they did anyways. Why not go for it?

 

Honestly, risking sounding like TMQ, you're down by 14. You've got the best offensive line in football, a hall of fame running back, arguably the best blocking fullback in football, two world-class recievers, and a quarterback who can run. If you lose, YOU'RE DONE FOR THE SEASON. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?! The crowd was deafeningly loud, and the Pats had a few false start penalties from the noise. If you give them the ball at the two, chances are they're gonna go three and out. You DON'T kick the ball.

[smh810 0]

  Anyone ever consider the possibility that:

 

1. It didn't necessarily have to be a run. It could very well have been a bootleg and had Ben try to be the hero. That would have been a real defining moment for his career if he got the TD that would have put the Steelers back in it.

 

Wouldnt have worked Vrabel or one of the other LB's would have buried him.

 

 

 

and

2. If you get stopped on the opponents' 2 yard line, they take over at the exact same spot. You're practically guaranteed another possession unless you have a terrible defense (which the Steelers obviously didn't) and you have the chance to get a safety, which ultimately could turn any game around in a huge way.

 

Wouldnt have happened Weis would have dialed something up in order to get a 1st down.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Just give it up.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Here's my huge ass post on why Bill Cowher was wrong going for the FG via request from Tyler.

 

First off lets look at the situation. 4th and goal from the 2 with about 13min left in the 4th quarter of what had been a game dominated by the New England defense going into the second half. This makes it 4 down territory for the Steelers as the New England offense had also been matching them score for score too basically. The positive if they get into the endzone has been mentioned many times. They cut it to a 1 possesion game with plenty of time and can go back to playing the field possesion game they're good at. The negatives however aren't that negative.

 

Say they missed and at worst the Pats get the ball on their own 2 yard line. The Steelers of course have the potential to gain a safety and the ball back which would be a large momentum shift and possibly one that ends up crushing the Pats. If they don't then that run defense up to that point was still doing very well and the Pats need to run it out of their as they don't want to risk a pick that close. They weren't about to repeat the same mistake they made down in Miami. Killing about 2 1/2min of gametime and punting would have been fine by them. Still, the Steelers have good field position and can feel good about themself.

 

Going for the FG however does two things. It tells your offense that you don't feel they can get in from 2 yards away and it tells the opposing defense you feel you can't score on them. That's when I felt the game was over. He had to put it into the hands of his offense and go for it.

 

Maybe the Pats make a first down or two, maybe they still get the FG and it goes to a 3 score game. The point being is that the FG was just as bad as the Pats taking over and going down the field anyways. The offense got the message they couldn't do it and the Pats defense got to thinking Cowher thought the offense couldn't score on them. All without the offense even being given a chance to prove this wrong.

 

Like I said earlier too, those 2 point conversions aren't gimmies.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I refuse to listen to any common sense and I'll insist on continuing my argument that I'm right and you're wrong despite the fact I've been proven wrong over and over again in this thread.

I see.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Here's something to chew on:

 

If he had went for the touchdown and came up dry, would we be sitting here, arguing that he should have went for the field goal? Or would we be sitting here saying "well, they took their best shot, it just wasn't meant to be"?

 

The only reason the field goal even enters the mind, in my opinion, is because that's what Cowher chose to do. It just seems far too intuitive to go for the touchdown to me.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I don't think I, personally, would've been arguing for it. Even if they miss and the Pats go down and score, they still lose either way. They took every ounce of momentum out of the game at that point, and by all means, they should have already been dead.

[Der Kommissar 0]

Better to take 3 then get stuffed at the end zone and kill any momentum.

 

I disagree. Getting that TD would have had the Patriots reeling. At worst, they would have stopped them, and the outcome would have the same. Going for the field goal seemed to say that the Patriots beat them on that drive, and that they don't trust their team to get a TD from two yards out. Even with the field goal, they were delaying the inevitable because they would have had to have gone with a two point conversion anyway, if they continued their rally. At least by going for it, they put faith behind their offense, and would have put the momentum solidly in their favour if they have scored the TD.

 

and you have the chance to get a safety, which ultimately could turn any game around in a huge way.

 

I don't know about that. If they were pinned down at the 2, the Patriots may have taken the safety anyway. The Steelers would have still needed at least two TD's to win, even with the safety, and I can't imagine Belichick giving his streaking opponent possibly great field position should the punt get blocked or the Steelers have a good return. I could be totally off base(as it would take it from a situation where the Steelers need two TD's to tie the game to needing two to win the game) about that, but I remember the media patting Belichick on the back awhile ago for his "situational coaching" skills by pulling a similar move in a game.

[smh810 0]

First off lets look at the situation. 4th and goal from the 2 with about 13min left in the 4th quarter of what had been a game dominated by the New England defense going into the second half. This makes it 4 down territory for the Steelers as the New England offense had also been matching them score for score too basically. The positive if they get into the endzone has been mentioned many times. They cut it to a 1 possesion game with plenty of time and can go back to playing the field possesion game they're good at. The negatives however aren't that negative.

 

Say they missed and at worst the Pats get the ball on their own 2 yard line. The Steelers of course have the potential to gain a safety and the ball back which would be a large momentum shift and possibly one that ends up crushing the Pats. If they don't then that run defense up to that point was still doing very well and the Pats need to run it out of their as they don't want to risk a pick that close. They weren't about to repeat the same mistake they made down in Miami. Killing about 2 1/2min of gametime and punting would have been fine by them. Still, the Steelers have good field position and can feel good about themself.

 

Going for the FG however does two things. It tells your offense that you don't feel they can get in from 2 yards away and it tells the opposing defense you feel you can't score on them. That's when I felt the game was over. He had to put it into the hands of his offense and go for it.

 

Maybe the Pats make a first down or two, maybe they still get the FG and it goes to a 3 score game. The point being is that the FG was just as bad as the Pats taking over and going down the field anyways. The offense got the message they couldn't do it and the Pats defense got to thinking Cowher thought the offense couldn't score on them. All without the offense even being given a chance to prove this wrong.

 

There are some good points there but heres the thing you know the Pats better than I do obviously. I think you know they would have a)stopped them and b) held the football for a lot longer than they did on the ensuing drive. Brady wouldnt have gotten a safety, Weis would have found a play to get a first down and you know that. Cowher saw the writing on the wall and was being realistic about the situation Hence the FG. You are right two point conversions are not gimmes I just feel there was no way Pittsburgh was gonna get a TD. So taking the pure emotion out of it, yes I think the FG was the best move in order to keep Pittsburgh's slim hopes alive. As I've said many times in this thread, 0 is a lot worse than 3.

 

Here's something to chew on:

 

If he had went for the touchdown and came up dry, would we be sitting here, arguing that he should have went for the field goal? Or would we be sitting here saying "well, they took their best shot, it just wasn't meant to be"?

 

The only reason the field goal even enters the mind, in my opinion, is because that's what Cowher chose to do. It just seems far too intuitive to go for the touchdown to me.

 

I see your point MIB but you just saw your best short yardage runner not only get stopped but pushed backwards. Youre not gonna get the touchdown so whatever slim hopes you had, you have to kick the FG in that situation. This needs to be said again though if they were on the 1 no matter what happened on 3rd down you go for it. Since its only a yard no matter what. With 2 yards to go there is too much of a risk for failyure especially against NE.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

How long have you had the gift of being able to see the future?

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

How long have you had the gift of being able to see the future?

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

How long have you had the gift of being able to see the future?