MK Deception for GameCube extras

[Guest sek69]

Sometimes MK reminds me of a running joke they have in the comic strip Doonesbury where they put their background or seldom used characters in a special room to keep them fresh for their next use.

 

I thought they were quietly trying to make everyone forget about MK4 then Tanya pops back up, and I didn't expect to see Jade back since see was a cheeser's delight in MK3 (around here at least).

 

As far as the game itself goes, I've heard people bitch about MK being a shitty fighter since 1993 yet people still play it. Its not a deep fighting game like SF II but it was never intended to be. People also seem to take sides on the 2D vs 3D issue like it was a political debate. I liked the 2D games but obviously MK needed to evolve or it would have died out. I thought MK: DA was a solid fighter, and the new system of everyone having 2 fighting styles based on real martial arts gave a added dimension that MK games were lacking in the past.

 

I also think its silly to bash a game for its online play. I personally gave up playing online in any game unless its against people I know because it seems like 99% of the people playing online are assholes who spend hours finding glitches or cheese moves and then rub it in your face after they throw you to death. At least when you ran into a cheeser in the arcade you had the option of introducing his face into the side of the arcade cabinet.

[Anya 0]

Jade is so lame in UMK3.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

Just because there is a lot of people on the MK band wagon doesn't mean it's a great game.

[Anya 0]

and just because there's a lot of haters doesn't mean it's a bad game.

 

Most people are convinced II is the best...that has never stopped me from preaching that 3 is.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

MK3 is my favourite, by far, as well.

[Guest sek69]

I too think MK2 was the best, but I also love 3 (obviously) and I'll defend it to the death.

 

Having said that, it can't be denied that 3 marks the point where the stupid shit started to take over. Animalities? Negro, please.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

He's probably just chilling out somewhere in Outworld.

*Pictures Kintaro on a lounge chair with sunglasses on sipping on lemonaid.*

 

Anyway...what about the...um...female version of Goro and Kintaro?

[Guest Sturgis]

Sheeva? She's dead. Motaro killed her I believe. Motaro was hopfully sent to the glue factory.

[Guest Smues]

Sheeva? She's dead. Motaro killed her I believe. Motaro was hopfully sent to the glue factory.

Actually if I recall she killed Motaro. Kano killed her, either Kano or Shao Khan with Kano's help. He tricked her into freeing him from a cell. He told her he'd have her back when she attacked Shao Khan but he betrayed her and she was killed.

[Anya 0]

Yeah, Kano tricked her into getting killed by Kahn.

 

After failing to beat Sonya in MK3, Motaro locked Kano in a prison cell in Kahn's evil lair. Sheeva killed Motaro, then freed Kano who agreed to help her kill Kahn. Kano went ahead to Kahn's throne room to be a diversion, but instead of doing that he warned Kahn that Sheeva was coming. When she entered, she was impaled by Kahn's sword. Poor Sheeva.

[AndrewTS 0]

Yeah, Kano tricked her into getting killed by Kahn.

 

After failing to beat Sonya in MK3, Motaro locked Kano in a prison cell in Kahn's evil lair. Sheeva killed Motaro, then freed Kano who agreed to help her kill Kahn. Kano went ahead to Kahn's throne room to be a diversion, but instead of doing that he warned Kahn that Sheeva was coming. When she entered, she was impaled by Kahn's sword. Poor Sheeva.

And in MK-Annihilation, she was squished by a big metal cage before ever actually getting to fight, because the studio I guess was too cheap to spring for having both Sheeva and Motaro to have fight scenes. Had to save that SFX money for TOTALLY ASININE ANIMALITY BATTLE BETWEEN KAHN AND LIU...

 

Well, by the looks of it, it was probably relatively cheap. anyway.

[Guest sek69]

Another thing I don't get about MK, they bring in characters only to either kill them off in the same game, or just never mention them again. Frost, for example, was a decent character that added some depth to Sub Zero's character. What did they do? Have her turn heel on him only to be killed by her own incompetence. What was the point then? I mean they keep characters like Reptile and Jax around that have gone as far as they can go storyline-wise without being popular enough to warrant being kept around.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

OK...one request:

 

Could someone make up a list of the characters introduced in each Mortal Kombat game, and tell what happened to each?

 

Like, who in the story is still alive and who is dead...that stuff.

[Anya 0]

What I find weird is that most of the people that die do so outside the actual fights. MK is about fighting to the death, yet rarely does anyone actually die in their fights.

 

 

And for info on what everyone is doing you should check out Gavok's MK story FAQ at gamefaqs. You can find it under any MK game. It's really great. Covers the story and each individual character and has no BS from the comics or movies.

 

 

The worst cut in MKA is removing Kabal and Stryker. I mean, it's KABAL AND STRYKER. You can't get rid of them.

[AndrewTS 0]

"Classic Sub-Zero" in UMK3/MKT is not and never was the original Sub-Zero. His ending reveals this. It says he was thought to be the dead Sub come back to life, however when he removes his mask everyone is shocked to discover that it's actually a long missing warrior, who's identity is not revealed to the player.

I don't know about that--

 

(from ShadalooSoldier's Noob-Smoke FAQ)

 

UMK3: A character appears called 'Classic Sub-Zero'. His ending reveals

that...

 

"Upon removing his mask, both the Outworld and the Earth-born warriors

are shocked to discover the true identity of this warrior, a warrior

who has long been missing from a previous Mortal Kombat, and one who

will return in the fourth tournament."

 

People assumed this to be Cage, Raiden, or even the original Kung Lao.

The very text of his ending itself fooled us into believing that he was

NOT just who he appeared to be, the original Sub-Zero. He was, but he

was just also Noob Saibot - who, although being a hidden character in

that game, was also the one OTHER MK cast member apart from the

aforementioned group who was not selectable. His having the ice powers

makes sense.

 

MK4: And lo and Behold, Noob Saibot appears, like mentioned in the UMK3

ending. AND, if you activate the one-button fatality option on Mortal

Kombat Gold - oh my goodness gracious, he has Sub-Zero's fatalities!

GOOD GRAVY!

 

The hints were always there, we just never really saw them.

 

Q: Wait just a minute, buster. Noob Saibot AND Classic Subbie were in

MK Trilogy! Explain that!

 

A: Okay. Human Smoke, Cyber-Smoke. Two characters, two endings - but

the same individual, even if one was not canon. You don't even have to

consider UMK3 Sub-Zero canon - the fact remains, it's probably him.

 

Remember though, the whole UMK3 Sub-Zero as Noob theory is not official

- it's just that, a theory - a theory that happens to fit the known

facts REALLY REALLY well.

[Anya 0]

That's stupid. It doesn't fit really well, it's more like streching it big time just to make sense of an old dropped story. Why would Noob fight in UMK3/MKT as himself and as Sub-Zero? When he died he became a demon(Noob), as far as we know he has no way of turning back into Sub-Zero. Also, whoever it is it's someone the Earth and Outworld warriors know(because they're all shocked to see who it is). If the original Sub-Zero took off his mask everyone would just be like "um...ok....who's that guy". They never saw him without his mask.

 

Also, Noob being the old Sub-Zero is a new thing. It was a fan made idea John Vogel decided to use just last year. So when that ending was originally written Noob being Sub was not even thought of. I doubt it's actually anyone. I'm thinking Tobias wrote the ending to be mysterious and figured he'd reveal it later then never got around to it.

[Anya 0]

Ok, so, apparently they actually do have stories and are back from the dead. How lame...

 

 

Official bios:

 

Shao Kahn

 

Place of origin: Outworld

Alignment: Evil

Foes: Kitana, Raiden, Liu Kang

 

My defeat at the hands of the Earthrealm warriors had left me weakened, and my dominance in Outworld was waning. Kitana's forces were closing in. It was only a matter of time before they would overrun my stronghold. Using a powerful magical item retrieved long ago by my minions, I created a clone of myself to draw my enemies' attention while I escaped into the wild. When I have regained my strength, I will destroy all who have opposed my rule.

 

Goro

 

Place of origin: Outworld

Alignment: Evil

Allies: Shao Kahn

Foes: Baraka, Kitana

 

Kitana's army allied with my Shokan warriors in an attempt to destroy my old master, Shao Kahn. It was rumored that he has weakening and that our victory was inevitable. During the last battle against Kano's milita, however, I was attacked from behind by a shadow warrior, Noob Saibot. I do not know for how long I lay dying on the battlefield, but when I regained consciousness, I was greeted by the last person I expected to see...

 

 

 

 

Ok, so Kahn had a stand-in. I can see that. But he didn't bother to tell any of his cronies like Kano or Reptile? Um, ok.

 

And Goro's makes no sense. Kitana was at his side when he died. His body was dunked in lava as his burial. The only explination Ican see is that the mystery man who he sees is Kahn who makes a clone Goro but that would just be dumb.

 

 

I hope these stories end up being non-canon....

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Goro

 

Place of origin: Outworld

Alignment: Evil

Allies: Shao Kahn

Foes: Baraka, Kitana

 

Kitana's army allied with my Shokan warriors in an attempt to destroy my old master, Shao Kahn. It was rumored that he has weakening and that our victory was inevitable. During the last battle against Kano's milita, however, I was attacked from behind by a shadow warrior, Noob Saibot. I do not know for how long I lay dying on the battlefield, but when I regained consciousness, I was greeted by the last person I expected to see...

...talk about contradictory...his alignment, allies, and a foe are evil, Shao Kahn, and Kitana....but in his bio it says he was fighting along side Kitana against Shao Kahn...kinda making him good.

 

...did someone goof?

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Ok, so Kahn had a stand-in. I can see that. But he didn't bother to tell any of his cronies like Kano or Reptile? Um, ok.

He probably didn't tell them for fear that they might accidentally blurt out that he was still alive.

 

If no one knew, then there was no chance that someone would find out until it was too late that he was alive.

[Anya 0]

...talk about contradictory...his alignment, allies, and a foe are evil, Shao Kahn, and Kitana....but in his bio it says he was fighting along side Kitana against Shao Kahn...kinda making him good.

 

...did someone goof?

All of the bios in MKD are like that. Like Sub-Zero is still listed as an enemy of Scorpion despite the fact that they haven't been feuding in years. It's weird and dumb. I guess those stats are supposed to be kind of like based on the entire series.

[AndrewTS 0]

That's stupid. It doesn't fit really well, it's more like streching it big time just to make sense of an old dropped story.

Which is arguably why Boon opted to do the "Noob is original Subbie" angle in the first place. It was some attempt at continuity that made a little bit of sense, even if it wasn't perfect.

 

You said:

"Classic Sub-Zero" in UMK3/MKT is not and never was the original Sub-Zero. His ending reveals this. It says he was thought to be the dead Sub come back to life, however when he removes his mask everyone is shocked to discover that it's actually a long missing warrior, who's identity is not revealed to the player.

 

I pointed out to you that you were wrong; the *actual* text says nothing of the sort. It was vague enough that it implied that, but never really said anything concrete other than "this person isn't a new character, and will be in MK4"

 

Why would Noob fight in UMK3/MKT as himself and as Sub-Zero?

 

An extra playable character for players without using much extra space?

 

Why doesn't Reptile do any of Subbie or Scorp's moves any more except the slide?

 

Yeah, nobody knows what original Subbie's face looked like. Are you implying--*gasp* the MK developers leave plotholes everywhere?

 

Come to think of it, considering Reptile:

A) had Subbie's moves at one point

B) Returned in MK4. (returned could just mean he was on the MK4 roster, doesn't mean he wasn't in the previous game)

C) if unmasked, his face would be recognized

 

...he could arguably make as much sense as Classic Sub-Zero as anyone, maybe more. Remember "a warrior who has long been missing from a previous Mortal Kombat, and one who will return in the fourth tournament" doesn't rule out people already included in UMK3/Trilogy.

 

Noob's Kanoriffic appearance actually conflicts with "long been missing" if you buy it as canon, though. However, Noob works better since Reptile's been stretched too thin as a character anyway and was otherwise occupied for MKD.

 

I believe you said yourself that when they went with the MKD relevation, they probably glimpsed over the character backstories and says "hey, this kind of works, so let's go with it."

[Anya 0]

I pointed out to you that you were wrong; the *actual* text says nothing of the sort. It was vague enough that it implied that, but never really said anything concrete other than "this person isn't a new character, and will be in MK4"

 

 

Look at the first sentence....

 

Having been killed in the first tournament, Sub-Zero somehow seems to

have emerged to win the third tournament. However, upon removing his mask both the Outworld and the Earth-born warriors are shocked to discover the

true identity of this warrior. A warrior who has long been missing from a

previous Mortal Kombat, and one who will return in the fourth tournament.

 

 

How can it be any more clear? It says he is thought to be the dead Sub come back to life, however when he takes off the mask everyone is shocked to see who it is. The wording makes no sense if it really IS the older Sub. That'd be saying "Having died in MK1, Sub-Zero somehow seems to have come back to life to win MK3. However when he removes his mask everyone is shocked to discover it's actually the old Sub having come back to life.". WTF?

 

 

 

Yeah, nobody knows what original Subbie's face looked like. Are you implying--*gasp* the MK developers leave plotholes everywhere?

 

 

I thought it fit pretty well? What is it now, "it fits pretty well....ok except for that massive plot hole..."?

 

 

 

...he could arguably make as much sense as Classic Sub-Zero as anyone, maybe more. Remember "a warrior who has long been missing from a previous Mortal Kombat, and one who will return in the fourth tournament" doesn't rule out people already included in UMK3/Trilogy.

 

 

How would Reptile fit the description of being "long missing from a previous Mortal Kombat"?

 

 

Noob's Kanoriffic appearance actually conflicts with "long been missing" if you buy it as canon, though.

 

 

Why wouldn't it be canon? And forget Wavenet UMK3, Noob is fightable in every version of MK3. He even has a story and ending in SNES and Genesis.

 

 

 

I don't see how anyone can say it "fits the known facts REALLY well". You have to ignore that the ending says it's someone else. You have to ignore the fact that almost nobody on Earth and Outworld know what old Sub looks like. You have to ignore that Noob is already in the game. You have to ignore that there's no reason for him to dress up like Sub and start randomly fighting other than to explain an old dropped story. I guess you can ignore or explain away those things, but then all you're really left with is "well it kinda sorta fits....it MIGHT be him....it's possible!" but I mean really, you could also say that about Kintaro too.....

[AndrewTS 0]

The first sentence was cut off in that theory, that's why.

 

Gavok made the same mistake.

 

I've been reminded that Classic Sub-Zero's ending does not claim that he

was not the older Sub-Zero. The ending says that he unmasked himself

to the surprise of the many warriors, revealing himself to be a warrior

from a previous tournament. Since this originated in UMK3, this led fans

to argue over whether it was Johnny Cage or Raiden returning to the story

(I know it doesn't make sense with the ice powers). Once MKT came out,

there were only two guys we knew about left: older Sub-Zero and the

original Kung Lao. Since Shang has that Kung Lao's soul, there's only two

options: Either it was the older Sub-Zero or a new character yet to be

introduced, who had existed during important parts of the story's history

(similar to Quan Chi, Shinnok, Bo' Rai Cho, etc.).

 

I thought it fit pretty well? What is it now, "it fits pretty well....ok except for that massive plot hole..."?

 

That's how Boon and company felt.

 

No existing characters "fit", taking all things into account.

 

How would Reptile fit the description of being "long missing from a previous Mortal Kombat"?

 

He wasn't in the first MK3. Yes, he appeared in UMK3, but then you run into the same contradiction in MKT.

 

You have to ignore that Noob is already in the game. You have to ignore that there's no reason for him to dress up like Sub and start randomly fighting other than to explain an old dropped story.

 

That would mean he couldn't be anyone who was ever playable or fightable in any MK game up until that point. MKT has everybody, and on PS1 even has the bosses.

[Anya 0]

Gavok made the same mistake.

 

Yeah, I am the one who e-mailed him about it. I've contributed a lot to that FAQ.

 

 

 

He wasn't in the first MK3. Yes, he appeared in UMK3, but then you run into the same contradiction in MKT.

 

Yeah, but UMK3's story overrides MK3. Regular MK3 doesn't exist in the storyline. CSZ was added in the same game as Reptile so it's not like the story was outdated either.

 

 

That would mean he couldn't be anyone who was ever playable or fightable in any MK game up until that point. MKT has everybody, and on PS1 even has the bosses.

 

 

Yeah, exactly.

 

I've never claimed to know who it is. In fact I actually don't think it was ever anyone at all. I think John Tobias wrote the ending just trying to be all vague and mysterious just for the sake of it. All the UMK3 endings suck, especially for the hidden characters.

[Guest sek69]

Maybe its just me, or is this whole thing with Shao Kahn making clones of himself make you wonder if Vince Russo got a job working for Midway?

[Guest Sturgis]

Why? It makes perfect sense. He's the Emperor of Outworld, alot of people probably want him dead, so he gets some poor sap to play him(like History of the World Part 1). That and the Deadly Allience seemed to have taken care of him in a matter of seconds. I know it's the combined force of Shang Tsung and Quan Chi but damn Liu Kang put up a better fight.

 

Now Goro's reamergence on the other hand is completly Russo-esque.

[Anya 0]

The way the MKDA intro is set up doesn't show the full fight between Kahn and the Deadly Alliance. It was actually really epic and Kahn almost won. They talk about it more in Konquest.