iggymcfly Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 They keep saying this on ESPN and stuff all the time and it really pisses me off. The thing that pisses me off even more is the guys they use as another option if it's not him. It's always Chuck Knoll or Bill Walsh or Jimmy Johnson. Obviously, the best NFL coach of all time is the guy whose name is on the trophy, Vince Lombardi. He won five straight NFL titles in an era where the coach really controlled the team. The fact that he's not even considered is pretty much just evidence of how fast people forget everything that didn't happen in the last five years. All these things about how great the Patriots are really don't hold much water if they can't even remember who the hell Vince Lombardi was.
Art Sandusky Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 I'd say coaches control the team way more now than in the 60s, when offensive management was largely left to the quarterback. I agree with the point you're putting forward, but coaches and coordinators these days are essentially chess players with the guys in jerseys being their pieces.
Kahran Ramsus Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 It wasn't five straight, but he won five in 9 years after inheriting the worst team in football. Green Bay had 1 win in 1958, the year before Lombardi got there, and he had them in the NFL Championship in 1960, in only his second year. They are also the only team in NFL history to win three straight World Championships (1965 NFL Championship, Super Bowl I & Super Bowl II).
The Czech Republic Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 Of course Lombardi is the best coach of all time.
2GOLD Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 Vince is #1, no question about it. In the Super Bowl era though, he is behind a lot of guys.
The Man in Blak Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 The real test for Belichick will be next year - if the Patriots get to the Super Bowl again, without Romeo Crennel and Charlie Weis, then I think that probably solidifies his claim for best coach of the ESPN era and probably makes a great case for him being the best of the modern NFL.
2GOLD Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 The real test for Belichick will be next year - if the Patriots get to the Super Bowl again, without Romeo Crennel and Charlie Weis, then I think that probably solidifies his claim for best coach of the ESPN era and probably makes a great case for him being the best of the modern NFL. A third straight Super Bowl? Come on...that is asking way too damn much. 3 Super Bowls in 4 years should be more than enough to get him mentioned. Not to mention 9-1 in the playoffs and undefeated in the Playoffs as the head coach of the New England Patriots.
Guest Vitamin X Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 I'd say coaches control the team way more now than in the 60s, when offensive management was largely left to the quarterback. I agree with the point you're putting forward, but coaches and coordinators these days are essentially chess players with the guys in jerseys being their pieces. Actually, I remember reading up on it some time ago and finding out that Lombardi had complete control over the game management, which made him atypical of his profession in that era (and perhaps a reason for the Pack's success in the 60's). The Packers of that era, and I can testify to this because I've seen a bunch of their older games (though not in full obviously) and they played like a hybrid of today's Pats (do just enough to win) and the Steelers of the 70's (run the ball down their throats and destroy them with a nasty defense with a smart QB managing the offense). Vince is a legend because of the speeches he would make, and is still highly regarded today as one of the greatest motivational speakers of all time, which is in part what made the Packers so good (aside from all those Hall of Famers as well). But these days with free agency and the cap and all, guys like Lombardi, Paul Brown, George Halas, Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, and Don Shula would have a very different situation as is evidenced by guys who run GM/Head coach dual roles in today's NFL.
Guest Failed Mascot Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 A third straight Super Bowl? Come on...that is asking way too damn much. If they shore up that secondary then they have a chance. Still, I'll be happy so long as they win the AFC East.
2GOLD Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 A third straight Super Bowl? Come on...that is asking way too damn much. If they shore up that secondary then they have a chance. Still, I'll be happy so long as they win the AFC East. Didn't mean it wasn't possible, but it's asking a lot of any coach. Three in four was difficult enough.
HarleyQuinn Posted February 7, 2005 Report Posted February 7, 2005 To ask Belichek to get to 3 straight SB's is insane. The Dallas Cowboys of the early 90's didn't make 3 straight SB's. Buffalo made it 4 straight times, Denver made it 3 of 4 years, the "great" Steelers teams of the 70's only made it 2 times in a row, SF made it 2 years in a row, and Minnesota made it 3 of 4 years. No team aside from Buffalo has made it more than 2 straight times. SB Wins: Dallas 3 in 4, New England 3 in 4, Pittsburgh 4 in 6(with 2 years of not making it in a row), SF had 3 in 6 and 3 in 7...
Damaramu Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 My Sports History teacher is a member of the old guard and he was ranting and raving today about how much better Lombardi is than Bellicheck. Then he complimented me and told me he was proud of me still wearing my as he put it "Eagles get-up" in the face of defeat. It was just a jersey and hat....not really a get up.
Guest Failed Mascot Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 Since the thread title doesn't limit this to football I'd like to introduce you to the best coach ever.
Precious Roy Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 Basketball wise, he's up there, though the Celtics got lucky through the territorial draft system, as their territory was a hotbed for basketball talent at the time, and they just generally had the most talented rosters, plus the only guy who could really contain Chamberlain. But Red was GM too, so that counts for something. For my money it's John Wooden, though for me it's a really tough debate, probably because I'm more of a basketball historian than a football historian.
Slayer Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 To ask Belichek to get to 3 straight SB's is insane. The Dallas Cowboys of the early 90's didn't make 3 straight SB's. Buffalo made it 4 straight times, Denver made it 3 of 4 years, the "great" Steelers teams of the 70's only made it 2 times in a row, SF made it 2 years in a row, and Minnesota made it 3 of 4 years. No team aside from Buffalo has made it more than 2 straight times. Early 70's Dolphins The year before the perfect season (which was the first of a pair), they went to the SB and got their asses kicked by the Cowboys. The only memorable thing was Richard Nixon suggesting a play to Don Shula and having it blow up in the Dolphin's faces.
The Czech Republic Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 Since the thread title doesn't limit this to football I'd like to introduce you to the best coach ever. Yeah you're absolutely right.
NoCalMike Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 Lombardi #1 I would put Joe Gibbs in the top 5 at least, as he led teams with a different QB and RB to each SB win. They Skins were like the anti-dynasty-dynasty, because they won without the conventional Franchise QB.
Guest Failed Mascot Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 There was nothing left to debate after I posted a photo of Red.
Precious Roy Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 You didn't debate what I said about the territorial drafts and the Celtics having the most talent year after year. Red was a fine coach, and he won a lot, but he ain't exactly sliced bread.
Guest Failed Mascot Posted February 8, 2005 Report Posted February 8, 2005 They got Bill Russell out of Cali. It wasn't limited to just New England based players. Not to mention he's also the man that drafted the rights to Bird a year early because he knew the wait was worth it. He also raped the Warriors for Robert Parish and the #3 pick which ended up being Kevin McHale for the #1 overall pick which the Warriors used to grab Joe Barry Carrol. There's no debate. Red is the coach of coaches and GM of GMs.
Guest Salacious Crumb Posted February 9, 2005 Report Posted February 9, 2005 Bill Walsh, most of the modern offenses have been greatly influenced by his 49er teams.
The Czech Republic Posted February 9, 2005 Report Posted February 9, 2005 They got Bill Russell out of Cali. It wasn't limited to just New England based players. Not to mention he's also the man that drafted the rights to Bird a year early because he knew the wait was worth it. He also raped the Warriors for Robert Parish and the #3 pick which ended up being Kevin McHale for the #1 overall pick which the Warriors used to grab Joe Barry Carrol. There's no debate. Red is the coach of coaches and GM of GMs. Red Auerbach is the greatest coach in the history of basketball. I'll say it with no qualms, he'll always be better than Phil Jackson. Auerbach IS the Boston Celtics, and he built those teams. Phil was no architect of greatness, just a great leader.
Guest Vitamin X Posted February 9, 2005 Report Posted February 9, 2005 But what about as the greatest coach in ALL sports?
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