(observer) wm18 falls short of record

[Guest bcu1979]

A couple of notes from the latest Wrestling Observer.

 

WM18 ended up with a 1.6 buyrate and 800,000 buys. Last year's Rock/Austin match did a 2.0 buyrate and 950,000 buys. The Rock/Hogan match will end up in either third or fourth place in total number of buys. The 2000 WM main event did 824,000 buys.

 

Rock told friends backstage at the Florida house show that bigwigs in Hollywood told him he had to get out of wrestling if he wanted to be taken seriously as an actor. And people seemed to believe he was really leaving wrestling.

 

The idea of Brock Lesnar's matches ending by referee's decision was stopped by a certain top guy (guess who?) who talked Vince into nixing the idea. For the record, Meltzer did not mention Triple H by name. But he made it clear who he was referring to.

 

Scott Steiner told WWA officials that he would be leaving for the WWF after their next European tour. But people on the tour said his back was killing him after every match and there's no way he'd hold up to the schedule.

 

J.R. of course has disputed these comments in interviews done since the Observer went to print.

 

I don't understand what Steiner brings to the table. He's just another past-his-prime head case with a broken down body and an aversion to being a team player.

[Guest]

What? You think Triple H would hold down wrestlers? It was probably Jericho or Angle!

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I don't see what kind of threat Brock poses to HHH with his matches ending via referee stopage. What does it matter if he's only destroying curtain jerkers that no one cares about? If Brock were actually destroying legitament stars and getting over as a result of all this, I could see a cause for alarm. Oh well, not like it really matters in the long run.

[Guest]

I may be jumping the gun here, (Hell, I'm not backstage with these guys) but I really don't believe Triple H can have that much power over all the other agents, writers and Vince himself, to stop Lesnar or any other person from doing their finisher.

[Guest Kinetic]

I don't know that this can be accurately interpreted as Triple H attempting to hold Lesnar down by stopping that.  It wasn't that impressive, for one, and the crowd wasn't responding to it at all.  So, you know, big fucking deal.

[Guest]

What?  You mean HHH isn't the Creator of Man?  HHH isn't our Lord and Savior?  He who says whether wrestlers live or die?

[Guest Dangerous A]

Lesnar doesn't pose any threat to HHH. They are on different shows. They haven't even crossed paths on tv yet. If HHH did make the suggestion, I think it was a good one. If a ref is gonna stop a match after Lesnar does his powerbomb and facebuster, then wouldn't refs stop main events on ppv and the main events on the tv shows, because those matches have just as much impact as Lesnar does. He should just pin them.

[Guest Anglesault]

I have no idea what goes through Hunter's mind when he does shit like this. I personally don't care how Brock's matches end, but what difference does it make to Hunter?

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Maybe he realises that it's a stupid way to end the matches and that Lesnar won't get over acting like Goldberg all the time. Or maybe Meltzer is just full of shit, it's been known to happen.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

yes.

 

because when another report comes out every other week that points to HHH having power backstage its always bullshit.

[Guest]

I guess HHH thought the crowd reaction after the ref called a TKO was to INTENSE~ and he had to cut off Brock at the feet before all that INTENSITY~ killed somebody.

 

OR, he realized that Brock was drawing less of a reaction than Test and the TKO finishes were beyond lame and unbelievable as Big Show had been getting jobbed out to guys that Lesnar was easily throwing around making it inconsistent as Big Show is 2x the size of Lesnar.  Besides, this wrestling not boxing.

 

Oh, Bps, I'd like to see each and every one of these reports on HHH that shows he has backstage power. EVERY ONE, from EVERY OTHER WEEK, starting from January 1st to now as you claim. Hopefully that should keep you busy.

[Guest]

Or maybe, Triple H didn't like being almost thrown out the Airplane door at 20,000 feet?

[Guest]

I don't believe Triple H had anything to do with that. I enjoy bashing Mr. Levesque every now and then, but some people are just so desperate to blame everything on him that there willing to believe any ridiculous rumor they read, as long as it portrays Hunter in a negative light.

[Guest godthedog]

What?  You mean HHH isn't the Creator of Man?  HHH isn't our Lord and Savior?  He who says whether wrestlers live or die?

 

well, he does look a lot like jesus.  especially when he bleeds.

[Guest Brian]

What's the big deal with not doing the TKO finishes? I mean, shouldn't we be complaining more that people are getting offense in on him and he's selling for them, even minimally? I mean, what the fuck were they thinking with that one.

[Guest Anglesault]

What's the big deal with not doing the TKO finishes?

That was my point. Why does it bother HHH to the point that he stopped it? I could acre less, I just find it odd. Maybe because Roided up Monster HHH couldn't knock anyone out but Roided up monster Brock could do it with ease (?) I just don't get Hunter's line of thinking. But like I said, I couldn't care less about it Hunter stopping it, I'm just puzzled as to why he did.

[Guest Kinetic]

That was my point. Why does it bother HHH to the point that he stopped it? I could acre less, I just find it odd. Maybe because Roided up Monster HHH couldn't knock anyone out but Roided up monster Brock could do it with ease (?) I just don't get Hunter's line of thinking. But like I said, I couldn't care less about it Hunter stopping it, I'm just puzzled as to why he did.

He's part of the creative team.  He probably just didn't like it--which isn't an unpopular opinion, from what I can tell--and decided to put a stop to it.  The point is that the KO finishes weren't doing anything for Brock, so HHH was actually doing him a favor moreso than anything else.

[Guest Dangerous A]

You are asking the right questions, Anglesault. Only problem is no one but HHH and the creative team really know the answer. If it is such a bad idea about ending the TKO finishes, then shouldn't you blame Vince for even considering it coming from a worker/creative guy. If Vince felt HHH was right (if that's even the case) then Vince should feel your wrath if he just does whatever HHH says. I swear a lot of people have HHH on level with jedi mind tricks when it comes to him "supposedly" suggesting things and then those things happening. Might as well call him Darth Helmsley.

[Guest alfdogg]

Oh, Bps, I'd like to see each and every one of these reports on HHH that shows he has backstage power. EVERY ONE, from EVERY OTHER WEEK, starting from January 1st to now as you claim. Hopefully that should keep you busy.

Is Hunter ever gonna let you up for air?

 

OK, that was a little harsh.  But seriously, you're always preaching what a big cancer Steve Austin is, and they all seem to be posts only based on your hatred for him.  Then we all get flamed when we say something about HHH, because "we don't have our facts straight" or because "there is no proof of HHH having power."  Basically, it's really "I'm a HHH fan and I don't like when you talk about my hero like that."  I'm not saying there IS proof against HHH, but:

 

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE PROOF AGAINST AUSTIN? CAN YOU TELL US THAT?

 

And you're right, there may be no proof of HHH, but there's just as much proof of Austin as you claim there is of HHH.  Look past your Hunter bias and maybe you'll see that.

[Guest alfdogg]

Darth Helmsley?  I like that.

[Guest]

I find it funny that there are people whom are so clearly biased against Triple H attacking people whom they feel are biased in favor of Triple H.

 

...that's not funny, actually. That's sad.

[Guest]

It happens in everything BoSox against Yankees (even though I think Mariners vs Yankees is approaching that level of hatred except BoSox/Yanks have more history), Star Trek vs Star Wars, Liberals and Conservitives.  Some people think certain things can either do no wrong or are always wrong.

[Guest]

Oh, Bps, I'd like to see each and every one of these reports on HHH that shows he has backstage power. EVERY ONE, from EVERY OTHER WEEK, starting from January 1st to now as you claim. Hopefully that should keep you busy.

Is Hunter ever gonna let you up for air?

 

OK, that was a little harsh.  But seriously, you're always preaching what a big cancer Steve Austin is, and they all seem to be posts only based on your hatred for him.  Then we all get flamed when we say something about HHH, because "we don't have our facts straight" or because "there is no proof of HHH having power."  Basically, it's really "I'm a HHH fan and I don't like when you talk about my hero like that."  I'm not saying there IS proof against HHH, but:

 

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE PROOF AGAINST AUSTIN? CAN YOU TELL US THAT?

 

And you're right, there may be no proof of HHH, but there's just as much proof of Austin as you claim there is of HHH.  Look past your Hunter bias and maybe you'll see that.

I don't have a bias for Hunter as I don't particularly like him much anymore. But, it gets VERY annoying to see the same old HHH haters saying the same old shit since this new board came into existence. Believe it or not that's why half the older, so called "cooler" posters left.

 

As for my hate of a Austin, I don't hate the man. But, no one sems to understand the difference between proof and fact. Despite all the so called backstage power that HHH supposedly wields, I've yet to hear ONE report where it's not some secondhand bullshit and speculation.

 

With Austin on the other hand it's been proved that he's refused to work with the likes of Gunn, Jarrett and didn't put over HHH at SS '99 when he needed his first big win.  Also Austin gets to run away and whine like a bitch when things aren't going his way and even when they are. His post WM temper tantrum is all the proof you need on what type of "professional" Austin is. That's all I have to say on that subject so don't question me about it from now on.

[Guest bcu1979]

Maybe he realises that it's a stupid way to end the matches and that Lesnar won't get over acting like Goldberg all the time. Or maybe Meltzer is just full of shit, it's been known to happen.

Or maybe Triple H is one of the few people in wrestling who actually learns from the mistakes of the past. The established guys in WCW did a great job of keeping the top spots for themselves and keeping the young talent down. They just happened to fall asleep when it came to Goldberg and didn't squash him fast enough and he ended up becoming a huge star.

 

Lesnar is not over at the moment and neither is his finisher. (Big surprise condering he's selling for the Hardys and Shawn Stasiak.) But then again I don't believe Goldberg was over the first couple times he came out and squashed  people either. And a lot of people seem to believe Lesnar has that Goldberg type potential if pushed correctly.  So I think that explains Triple H's interest in Brock Lesnar.

 

I don't think this story in itself is a huge deal. But it's just another small example of how the top guys are able to manipulate Vince so easily. There's a reason the same 4 wrestlers have been on top for the past 2 1/2 years and it sure isn't because of some superior talent level.

[Guest Brian]

But at that same time that type of politics kept WCW from ever thriving again. You'd think if Triple H learned that lesson he wouldn't miss this one, no matter how much hubris he has.

[Guest bcu1979]

As for my hate of a Austin, I don't hate the man. But, no one sems to understand the difference between proof and fact. Despite all the so called backstage power that HHH supposedly wields, I've yet to hear ONE report where it's not some secondhand bullshit and speculation.

 

With Austin on the other hand it's been proved that he's refused to work with the likes of Gunn, Jarrett and didn't put over HHH at SS '99 when he needed his first big win.  Also Austin gets to run away and whine like a bitch when things aren't going his way and even when they are. His post WM temper tantrum is all the proof you need on what type of "professional" Austin is. That's all I have to say on that subject so don't question me about it from now on.

Let me get this straight. Everytime one of the websites or newsletters reports that Triple H has backstage pull or is hurting another wrestler's push, it's second hand bullshit. Despite the fact that Triple H has admitted to

 

a)dating the head writer/boss's daughter

b) being a member of the booking team

c) offering up "good" ideas for other wrestlers beside himself

d) that the other wrestlers see him more as management than a fellow wrestler

 

But anytime one of the dirtsheets or websites reports that Austin is doing the same things, then it's a proven fact. What is the difference?

 

Austin also isn't the first guy to "run away and whine like a bitch when things don't go his way." Triple H disappeared the week after No Way Out last year because of "creative differences." I wonder if those creative differences had anything to do with the main event of WM.

[Guest bob_barron]

At least when Triple H missed a week there was a reasonable explanation for his absence. (The brutal match)

 

With Austin- it didnt make any sense he'd be gone for two weeks.

 

Plus Austin's bitching kinda screwed up the roster split/draft thing.

[Guest bcu1979]

But at that same time that type of politics kept WCW from ever thriving again. You'd think if Triple H learned that lesson he wouldn't miss this one, no matter how much hubris he has.

You would think he might have realized that he's no Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin in terms of charisma and isn't going to carry the company on his back. But judging from the way his character as been portrayed since he returned, we might have another Bret Hart on our hands.

 

It's also obvious no one in the WWF has learned that particular lesson from WCW. WWF has been on a downward spiral for sometime now and show no real signs of breaking out of it anytime soon. And I believe it all points back to a string of horrible booking decisions that started in the summer/fall of 2000 and have continued up into the present. Maybe it's sad that people complain about the same thing over and over again. But I think it's also sad that the WWF keeps making the same exact mistakes over and over again.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

didn't put over HHH at SS '99 when he needed his first big win.

 

Umm....check your facts again. Austin didn't refuse anything that night. It was the booking team. Read Mick Foley's second book. And don't say Mick is lying because I believe someone who was actually there and involved in the situation over the dirtsheets.

[Guest]

ugh....I think it's fairly simple to assume, that once you find some sort of dirt on a wrestler you don't fancy, you will cling onto that dirt as fact, and that my friends, is why this arguement is so fucking never-ending. HHH entertained/entertains me, as does/did Austin, and that's all that really should fucking matter.