Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted March 1, 2005 Randy Orton is nowhere near as horrible as you guys make him out to be, get over it already...the sensible thing is to put him over Taker...deal with it... as far as Michaels and Angle...I guess Michaels because he's the face and he hasn't retaliated to Angle's attacks other than to issue a challenge (of course that could change)... It's not a sensible move to make. They already blew their chance with him and at this point the best he can shoot for is being a Chris Jericho style upper card guy. The audience hasn't really taken to him and I think there's a good chance that beating Taker at Mania could destroy his career. The Taker streak is a very special thing and if the wrong person ends it the crowds will forever shit on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 As much as it distastes me to think someone like Orton or anyone should break Taker's winning streak. Keep in mind its always up to three people involved in this, Orton and Taker who creates the match, and Vince with the final decision. If Taker himself is Ok with going down for the company and to make a name out of Orton in the process then whatever its a noble downfall. Orton however will get that Ultimate warrior pass the torch alla WM 6 rub but like the Warrior will fizzle out.. Once he goes on Raw weeks or months perhaps after Mania and Remind people that he is the Man who Beat the Undertaker at Mania in order to get ANY Heat either Pop or Boos, that will show you that they wasted a Record streak for Nothing.. It amazes me that the Orton family gets so much loyality out of the WWE that the company bends over backwards to make little Randy a Superstar. Cowboy Bob was a Solid Midcard wrestler, no real superstar in today's glitzy poping standard, but a maystay a good wrestler and worker. The WWE have spent what a year or more moving heaven and earth to make Randy look credible as a Main eventer, when he is anything but. If Orton goes over, then thats because Taker wanted him to go over for the good of the company no matter how dramatically dumb it is. But as I said if this doesn't equal Randy any kind of Title Win in the near future than this Precious Rub you Taker Haters are creaming over for Randy to receive won't mean Shit. Randy Orton beat Undertaker at Mania wow, and 3 months later becomes King of Sunday Night Heat. Then the only justification for any of this mess is your own desire to see the Undertaker lose, when no other excuse is proven valid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 i don't see why you need to write an essay about the situation...they want Randy to be more over, beating Taker (in THEIR minds) will do it...you're acting like I want that, that's not what I'm saying...Orton is over enough, or is my TV just turned up too loud? Beating a guy of Taker's calibre and with his 12-0 streak at WM or whatever it is will solidify Randy Orton as a top tier guy (or that is THEIR goal, anyway)...you really think the Taker will SUDDENLY be shit because of this loss? Give me a break...yeah let's suddenly forget almost 15 years of history because of one loss... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted March 1, 2005 Randy Orton is nowhere near as horrible as you guys make him out to be, get over it already...the sensible thing is to put him over Taker...deal with it... No! We can do whatever we want. Deal with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pochorenella 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 If Orton goes over, then thats because Taker wanted him to go over for the good of the company no matter how dramatically dumb it is. I agree with this. I think Taker has enough pull with the Front Office so they allow him final word on wether he ends his streak or not. And if he gives Orton the ultimate rub then who are we to question it? I'm no Orton fan myself, but I think many people here are clouding their thoughts because they hate Orton so much. Back when Orton faced Foley everyone was happy 'cause Randy stepped up to the plate and delivered when few thought he would. Now we're predicting doom and gloom for him when that match hasn't even happened yet. He may still lose, you know? WWE dropped the ball with Orton once but they can still make up for it. It happened with The Rock. Not to say it'll reach those levels, but he's young so he still has time. Regarding Angle vs HBK, I'm really torn here, and I guess I'm in the minority here among all the HBK Haters. Can't they both win? Really, all I want is a terrific match when all is said and done. Neither one has won a match on PPV in ages, and HBK has a lousy Mania record. Many are still complaining on his victory over Jericho at WMXIX. But I guess I'll go with Angle, after a hard-fought battle, or with an ending a la Bret/Austin (HBK passes out while in the ankle lock.) That would rock! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted March 1, 2005 Lord. Who are we to question it? We're the fans. We pay their bills. The product is supposed to be for us. Orton will be booed if he faces Undertaker. The whole thing is a bad idea, especially with him staying babyface because he begged them not to turn him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jebus 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 XII-Diesel- a nice high profile win (by far his most high profile win at this point), but I actually question the booking since Diesel was challenging Michaels in April Easy...Diesel was leaving for WCW so WrestleMania put a capper on his feud with Taker...then a quick one month feud with HBK then bye bye Remember jobbing on the way out is a time-honored tradition (TM Vince McMahon) On the Orton thing, the fans will boo if he wins and ends the streak so if the plan is for him to become heel again then good I guess. But as a face, it would just be a waste of a good streak as the fans may turn against Randy badly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pochorenella 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 So a wrestler is not allowed to have any say on his career choices? Should he always do what the fans say? If he wants to "pass the torch" to someone he deems worthy he shouldn't do it because some guys on a Forum think it's a bad idea? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted March 1, 2005 So a wrestler is not allowed to have any say on his career choices? He should probably say something if they're doing something stupid with his character, yes. I have no problem if 'Taker chooses to put over Orton, but (a) it shouldn't be his choice, it should be Vince's and (b) if it's not done the right way, it will just give Orton X-Pac heat. Should he always do what the fans say?[ Yes. The booking should always be done with the idea of giving the fans what they want in the long haul. If he wants to "pass the torch" to someone he deems worthy he shouldn't do it because some guys on a Forum think it's a bad idea? Me thinking it's a bad idea has nothing to do with my personal opinions of him as a performer, and everything to do with the fact that he has no male fans and a new babyface you're trying to push challenging the Undertaker will cause him to get "go away" heat, even if he goes over. You reserve that for a heel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 At the boards I visit that are inhabited my mostly marks, they don't believe Orton has a chance against Taker. It will be terrible business for Orton to go over, especially as a face. The fans (marks) wouldn't buy it for a second Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest krazykat72 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 And they buried one of those people during the buildup to this match. I seriously doubt Michaels will ever put anyone over. He's been back for 2 years now and he's done ziltch to help anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if HHH/HBK is the Mania main event next year. I must have imagined him putting Benoit over at Backlash last year or the Raw job to Jericho in 7/03 (which was laid out in essentially the *exact* way that Brock/Eddie went down) or the relatively clean job to Edge at this year's Rumble.... Sometimes the follow up sucks (like Jericho's following Michaels' tapping to him which should have totally been played up). I don't agree with the booking last night, but to label Edge "midcarder for life" is really stretching things. -Paul Jacobi- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pochorenella 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 So a wrestler is not allowed to have any say on his career choices? He should probably say something if they're doing something stupid with his character, yes. I have no problem if 'Taker chooses to put over Orton, but (a) it shouldn't be his choice, it should be Vince's and (b) if it's not done the right way, it will just give Orton X-Pac heat. Should he always do what the fans say?[ Yes. The booking should always be done with the idea of giving the fans what they want in the long haul. If he wants to "pass the torch" to someone he deems worthy he shouldn't do it because some guys on a Forum think it's a bad idea? Me thinking it's a bad idea has nothing to do with my personal opinions of him as a performer, and everything to do with the fact that he has no male fans and a new babyface you're trying to push challenging the Undertaker will cause him to get "go away" heat, even if he goes over. You reserve that for a heel. Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Honestly, Taker's been boring me to tears for quite some time, so I do want him to pass the torch to somebody (dammit, ANYBODY) and if Orton happens to be that guy then I hope they do it well. On the other hand, his WM streak is an amazing feat and I understand Taker fans not wanting it to end, but think what wonders it could do to a carrer of an up-and-comer. Of course, most would want it to be with a fan (or smark) favorite rather than Orton. Now I think WWE is backed into a corner. What could be the ideal outcome? Surely not even all the Orton haters would suggest a Taker squash? Maybe the deadly Handshake of Mutual Respect after a hard fought and valiant effort by the youngster? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted March 1, 2005 That might work. The problem with Undertaker is twofold -- he's not a draw, but no one buys it when he loses either because he's been kept so strong. If Orton was willing to turn heel here, I'd have faith in this match, and would think Orton going over was the right decision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 who's to say he's NOT going to eventually turn heel? okay okay, WWE logic says...but who knows if that same logic holds up here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted March 1, 2005 who's to say he's NOT going to eventually turn heel? okay okay, WWE logic says...but who knows if that same logic holds up here? Orton was asked to turn heel and refused. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 how does he get away with that? ORTON has that much pull??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest krazykat72 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 who's to say he's NOT going to eventually turn heel? okay okay, WWE logic says...but who knows if that same logic holds up here? Orton was asked to turn heel and refused. That's not quite what's been reported. (by Meltzer) It's been said he's been begging not to turn. That doesn't mean it won't happen. Based on the booking, his turn probably would have (and still could be) a few months away. -Paul Jacobi- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest combat_rock Report post Posted March 1, 2005 Well, if that's true, Randy Orton is insane. I understand a guy wanting to prove that he can work on either end of the heel/face spectrum, but as of right now, the fans simply aren't going to buy him as a face no matter what. That's not to say he couldn't turn again at some point in the future, but if he really cared about his career, he'd turn. There's a reason that Orton's being positioned as the guy that ends Taker's streak and that's because of his legend killer gimmick. And such a gimmick can't really work for a face. It needs to be an arrogant young heel to make it work, and it WILL if they capitalize on this oppurtunity. While an argument can be made for Kane or someone else ending Taker's streak, Orton makes enough sense that I'm ok with it if this is really Taker's last Wrestlmania. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted March 1, 2005 'Taker will probably wrestle another 10 years, at least. Look at Flair, and even Hogan still hasn't fully gone away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Age 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 And they buried one of those people during the buildup to this match. I seriously doubt Michaels will ever put anyone over. He's been back for 2 years now and he's done ziltch to help anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if HHH/HBK is the Mania main event next year. I must have imagined him putting Benoit over at Backlash last year or the Raw job to Jericho in 7/03 (which was laid out in essentially the *exact* way that Brock/Eddie went down) or the relatively clean job to Edge at this year's Rumble.... Sometimes the follow up sucks (like Jericho's following Michaels' tapping to him which should have totally been played up). I don't agree with the booking last night, but to label Edge "midcarder for life" is really stretching things. -Paul Jacobi- He didn't really put them over because he was still above them afterwards. He jobbed - yes. Put them over? No, not really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UseTheSledgehammerUh 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2005 I will be cheering on: Kurt Angle and Randy Orton. However, Michaels and Taker will go over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest krazykat72 Report post Posted March 2, 2005 He didn't really put them over because he was still above them afterwards. He jobbed - yes. Put them over? No, not really. Wrong. Shawn made them (especially Benoit and Jericho) look really strong in beating him. In fact they were the only two guys to make him submit since '92. He put them over just fine. The company didn't follow up on it. Shawn had nothing to do with that. Jobbing and not putting someone over is what Nash did to Mysterio where it was portayed as a total joke. There's a big difference. -Paul Jacobi- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
