A Piece on the Rise of the Internet

[Jobber of the Week 0]

A far-left PAC who is, flat-out, dominating the DNC right now. A far-left PAC who is making a party without a great deal of electoral success even LESS electable.

-=Mike

But do we see such media about the PNAC? No? Because everybody who wants to know knows, and people who don't want to know don't care.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

But everyone keeps saying the Democrats are moving to far to the left, and citing the use of MoveOn's tactics as an example.

 

Using MoveOn's tactics is not the same thing as moving to the left. 

 

Again, there's a difference between tactics and ideology.

I make that mistake too. But what most of us really mean is that they are hanging out with the wrong people. Ideology comes into it, but I don't think it is the bigger factor. It doesn't matter so much what they say as it is being associated with the wrong people.

 

If Jesus was buddy-buddy with Hitler, I doubt anybody would listen to what he had to say, right or not.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

You guys are acting like Michael Moore was a prime time speaker at the DNC convention or something.

[Guest MikeSC]

Er, Mike, Roemer wasn't turfed out because he was pro-life. He was turfed out, because he was a member of a right-wing think tank.

 

After all, Harry Reid is the bleepin' Minority Leader. So, as far as that goes, call me when Arlen Specter becomes the leader of the GOP, then we can talk about it.

Tim Roemer is a Democrat who can at least reach out to the voters the DNC is actively turning away.

 

And Harry Reid is an even LESS likeable version of Tom Daschle. No small feat to pull off there.

Not that it matters, as far as the Democrats should be concerned, if Repubs say we're making a mistake, we're on the right track. If Repubs say we're being reasonable, we're making a mistake.

Hold on to that dream.

 

Republicans can WIN elections. Democrats haven't had the best track record of doing that as of late.

 

You might want to listen to people who are actually successful occasionally.

Instead he wants the Democrats to be just like the Republicans?

No, I want an ACTUAL opposition party that has a prayer of winning control of Congress and the Presidency. I may be Republican, but I don't like the idea of my party being the only party that can even hope to win.

If it is their tactics that alienate people, then why say it is their ideology that turns people off?

Because even if they used PERFECT tactics --- their ideology would still drive voters away in droves.

 

Voters do not TRUST the current Democratic base with power.

But everyone keeps saying the Democrats are moving to far to the left, and citing the use of MoveOn's tactics as an example.

 

Using MoveOn's tactics is not the same thing as moving to the left.

 

Again, there's a difference between tactics and ideology.

The Democrats are doing the same things that didn't benefit them --- or the country --- for years.

 

Opposing qualified judges because you disagree with them? Gee, THAT was an effective ploy. We have major players (Sen. Byrd) actually comparing Republicans to Nazis.

 

Yes, you can no longer claim it's the "fringe" because Sen. Byrd, like it or not, is a major force in the DNC.

 

The Democrats have no voice and no vision. They identify themselves solely based upon what they oppose.

But do we see such media about the PNAC? No? Because everybody who wants to know knows, and people who don't want to know don't care.

And because they're quiet and know how to not make utter asses of themselves.

You guys are acting like Michael Moore was a prime time speaker at the DNC convention or something.

McAuliffe hugged the man. Dems widely praised his movie. He was in the box during the first night of the DNC.

 

If the Dems are painted as being supportive of the slug, it's because they didn't do much to distance themselves.

 

You didn't see Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson in prominent positions at the RNC, did you?

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Hold on to that dream.

 

Republicans can WIN elections. Democrats haven't had the best track record of doing that as of late.

It tilts back and forth. There was a long period of time where the Republicans couldn't win a damn thing either. I blame reactionary personalities.

 

Although it may not shift as easily in the future, the explosion of media in recent decades has preyed on people's gullibility and stupidity, and created a way too large percentage of people who believe in think MoveOn ran Hilter commercials during the finale of Friends or some other stupid shit.

 

 

You didn't see Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson in prominent positions at the RNC, did you?

 

Come back when a Jerry Fallwell book stays on the bestseller list for 3 months while raking in millions.

[Guest MikeSC]

Hold on to that dream.

 

Republicans can WIN elections. Democrats haven't had the best track record of doing that as of late. 

It tilts back and forth. There was a long period of time where the Republicans couldn't win a damn thing either. I blame reactionary personalities.

 

 

It's been pretty damned consistent. Do I need to remind you that it took Watergate and an inept candidacy to give the Democrats a MAJORITY of the vote for the only time in a Presidential election in the last 40 years? That is showing a real problem.

 

And they barely won the majority in that election. They have not only been unable to gain control of Congress lately (even in the mid-term election in 2002, when the Dems really thought they had a good shot at winning Congress), and it looks exceptionally unlikely to change anytime in the next few year races.

Although it may not shift as easily in the future, the explosion of media in recent decades has preyed on people's gullibility and stupidity, and created a way too large percentage of people who believe in think MoveOn ran Hilter commercials during the finale of Friends or some other stupid shit.

You have Byrd making Nazi comments now. People are going to have precious little use for them.

 

The problem MoveOn and the assorted whackjob leftie blogs had is not the Hitler shit --- it's that nobody TRUSTS them with power.

 

As that article demonstrated, the things that concern MoveOn visitors don't even remotely mesh up with what Americans at large worry about. And Dennis Kucinich is actually treated as something more than a goofy little twerp by them.

You didn't see Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson in prominent positions at the RNC, did you?

Come back when a Jerry Fallwell book stays on the bestseller list for 3 months while raking in millions.

And you clearly haven't quite learned the lesson.

 

The RNC keeps THEIR embarrassments out of the limelight. The Dems embrace theirs.

 

Who CARES how many books Moore sold? He cost the Dems A SHITLOAD of votes because most people loathe the fat tub of shit.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The problem MoveOn and the assorted whackjob leftie blogs had is not the Hitler shit --- it's that nobody TRUSTS them with power.

I don't even trust them to tell me the truth.

 

Here's the thing, though. Blogs don't have power. Blogs are just some blowhard running a web site. Blogs don't even have credibility, though you can keep dreaming the impossible wet-dream where the assorted networks, papers, and wires all crumble and everyone goes to a blog to find out the news.

 

 

The RNC keeps THEIR embarrassments out of the limelight. The Dems embrace theirs.

 

You don't seem to understand. Moore was able to get asses in seats. If Moore was an embarassment, people wouldn't have gone to the theaters to see his movie and talk about him.

 

If Falwell came out with some flaming rant in movie or book form, and it made many millions and put asses in theaters for a good couple months, and created such a huge national debate, and people were going around and telling their friends that they've got to check out this Falwell movie and it was suddently THE political movie of the year, that the Republicans would still shun him?

 

Who CARES how many books Moore sold? He cost the Dems A SHITLOAD of votes because most people loathe the fat tub of shit.

You contradict yourself. If everyone hates the fucker, he wouldn't have made so much money.

[NoCalMike 0]

I still get a kick out of people thinking the Democrat ticket in 2004 was hard left. It was more of a, "I will say anything at the moment, although when presented with a questionthat offers an oppurtunity to show some balls, I will wilt" campaign.

 

Dennis Kunsinich & Al Shaprton were the "hard-left" representatives in 2004, not Kerry or for that matter even Dean. If don't want to take my word for it, go to Kusinich's website and look at his issues and compare them to Kerry.

 

The two big issues in 2004 were the war and the economy, and Kerry took the more moderate approach to both of those issues, yet I guess when Sean Hannity gets on the TV and screams "lefty mcleftist" a few times, people consider that being informed.

[Guest MikeSC]

The problem MoveOn and the assorted whackjob leftie blogs had is not the Hitler shit --- it's that nobody TRUSTS them with power.

I don't even trust them to tell me the truth.

 

Here's the thing, though. Blogs don't have power. Blogs are just some blowhard running a web site. Blogs don't even have credibility, though you can keep dreaming the impossible wet-dream where the assorted networks, papers, and wires all crumble and everyone goes to a blog to find out the news.

You can't really buy that at this point. Reality doesn't begin to correspond with that.

 

Why was Dean a "big deal"? Because of the internet. People ignore that his support crumbled with the mildest of breezes --- but why was he "unbeatable" back in January, 2004? Because the internet built him up.

 

Same here. The lefty echo chamber is convinced that the reason the DNC lost is because they were "too nice" and "too much like the Republicans" and because the Dems have decided to let the fringe determine party policy, they are drifting further and further to the left --- ignoring the increasingly bad results.

The RNC keeps THEIR embarrassments out of the limelight. The Dems embrace theirs.

You don't seem to understand. Moore was able to get asses in seats.

And he turned away far more people than he drew in. That's what you don't seem to get.

 

He was a NEGATIVE draw in the end. He didn't draw in anybody NEW --- but he drove away A LOT of undecided voters by being such an embarrassment.

If Moore was an embarassment, people wouldn't have gone to the theaters to see his movie and talk about him.

Says who? People LOVE watching train wrecks and people willing to make asses of themselves.

If Falwell came out with some flaming rant in movie or book form, and it made many millions and put asses in theaters for a good couple months, and created such a huge national debate,  and people were going around and telling their friends that they've got to check out this Falwell movie and it was suddently THE political movie of the year, that the Republicans would still shun him?

YES!

 

They REMEMBER what happened in 1992. They, unlike the Dems, LEARN from mistakes.

Who CARES how many books Moore sold? He cost the Dems A SHITLOAD of votes because most people loathe the fat tub of shit.

You contradict yourself. If everyone hates the fucker, he wouldn't have made so much money.

I take it the phrase "preaching to the choir" is foreign to you, eh?

 

When the only people who like him are people who'd support the Dems ANYWAY --- but the people who MIGHT support the Dems stay away because they loathe him --- you have a problem.

-=Mike