Best Rockers and Hart Foundation matches?

[Guest wildpegasus]

So what are the best Rockers matches out there because I am SO marking out for their last 2 matches I've seen of them. Those being their matches against the Foundation and Demolition on Saturday Night's Main Event. The Rockers are what a tag team should be -- 2 wrestlers working together as one.

 

This is what annoys me about a lot of the tag wrestling in the WWE today. There aren't enough double tag team signature spots. Just watching the match against Demolition we had a double elbow drop followed by a double kip up, a dropkick by Janetty on Michaels which he turned into a frankensteiner, the double fistdrop off of the top and a beautiful timed double dropkick. The Rockers ruled. Even moreso than I remembered.

 

 

 

 

Likewise what are the best Hart Foundatin matches?

[Betty Houle 0]

The Rockers had damn good matches against almost everyone. I was watching their match with the Powers of Pain the other day (from one of the Supertapes I think) and it's so good. The Rockers make the PoP look like a million dollars and the PoP need to do so little outside of standing in the right space at the right time. Surprisingly good match. They went on to have a good match with Barbarian and Haku at WM7, too.

 

Their best matches? The series with the Brainbusters in 88-89 (including a good 2-of-3 falls match on SNME from the fall of 1989), their match with the Orient Express at the 1991 Royal Rumble, and their matches with the Hart Foundation.

 

The Hart Foundation's best matches were with the Bulldogs (pre-Dynamite's injury). They also had some really good matches with the Rockers, Demolition, and even the Nasty Boys.

[Guest LooneyTune]

The Rockers had some good matches with the Fabulous Rougeaus in 1989, including a match from MSG in the Summer of '88, one at the Boston Garden in I think the Winter '89, and one on the World Tour coliseum video, although I would rank the quality behind the others.

 

Also, Rockers/Towers from WM V was pretty darn good considering Akeem sucked and the Rockers were, in a nice way, "out of it" (either stoned or really drunk).

[Guest wildpegasus]

The Rockers had damn good matches against almost everyone. I was watching their match with the Powers of Pain the other day (from one of the Supertapes I think) and it's so good. The Rockers make the PoP look like a million dollars and the PoP need to do so little outside of standing in the right space at the right time. Surprisingly good match. They went on to have a good match with Barbarian and Haku at WM7, too.

 

Their best matches? The series with the Brainbusters in 88-89 (including a good 2-of-3 falls match on SNME from the fall of 1989), their match with the Orient Express at the 1991 Royal Rumble, and their matches with the Hart Foundation.

 

The Hart Foundation's best matches were with the Bulldogs (pre-Dynamite's injury). They also had some really good matches with the Rockers, Demolition, and even the Nasty Boys.

The Nasty Boys were reckless in the ring but they were involved in a lot of good tags. Specifically the Steiners at Havoc.

 

 

How many matches did the Harts have against the Bulldogs BEFORE Dynamite's injury? I've seen the MSG match from "Best of WWF Volume 7" but that's it.

[Betty Houle 0]

They had roughly 600 matches.

 

Not a real lot available. I think there are two Best of the WWF's that have them and the Coliseum tapes for the Harts and Bulldogs do as well.

[Guest LooneyTune]

If they wrestled at Boston Garden, the Spectrum, LA Sports Arena, Maple Leaf Gardens etc. etc., you might find people occasionally with shows featuring them wrestling, but they are pretty rare (Even moreso than MSG's). However, as for common finding...

 

Best of 7 like mentioned, the Foundation video has the title switch and another tag match from when the Bulldogs were champions in '86 (IIRC), and several singles matches between members from both teams at the Capital Centre (Dynamite/Hart, DBS/Anvil).

[LessonInMachismo 0]

<<They went on to have a good match with Barbarian and Haku at WM7, too.>>

 

That was probably their only WM win, too.

 

With the Brainbusters, I remember this badass part on Superstars once where the 'busters came out to ringside and Marty and Shawn looked at each and exchanged a few words, both nodded, then they just jumped over the top rope onto the 'busters and started brawling.

 

As for the Hart Foundation and Bulldogs, I think it sucks that the WM3 match was a six-man.

[Guest Loss]

I watched the Rockers/Santana v Rougeaus/Martel six-man from Summerslam '89 this weekend, and I'm convinced it's the best non-Busters/Rockers match of the year in the WWF, even with them totally sacrificing logic to have the illegal man pin the other illegal man. I'd call that one of their best matches that doesn't get the credit it deserves very often for whatever reason.

[Guest LooneyTune]

It's a dark horse candidate for WWF MOTY in 1989, mainly because it really had no build up (Martel and Santana split up... and thats all, and Rockers/Rougeaus were just paired off) and was thrown in the middle of the show.

 

Also, the outcome really didn't matter since the Rockers had bigger problems with the Brian Busters in 1989, and Santana/Martel never ended their feud (technically Martel probably won, since his record was like 17893-0).

 

In short: A great, but unimportant match thrown in the middle of a very forgetable show.

[strummer 0]

89 was a terrible year for the WWF, workrate wise. I even stopped watching for a while, from about April to November/December ( I was 10 years old). I got hooked again by Royal Rumble 90.

 

I always thought the Rockers had the best squash matches out of everyone in WWF, they just woked their asses off while other guys would just sleepwalk through their usual spots. They must have done about 65 jobs to warlord and Barbarian that year. No one got the best out of the POP like Shawn and Marty.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I watched the Rockers/Santana v Rougeaus/Martel six-man from Summerslam '89 this weekend, and I'm convinced it's the best non-Busters/Rockers match of the year in the WWF, even with them totally sacrificing logic to have the illegal man pin the other illegal man. I'd call that one of their best matches that doesn't get the credit it deserves very often for whatever reason.

Yes!! I love it when my memory serves correct. This is one of the matches that hooked me on to watching wrestling. Good to know that it still holds up. Rockers matches except for a couple are actually something I don't have on tape and I can only go by memory on.

 

 

For anyone who's interested I also started a thread about this on smarkschoice.com in the polls and lists section.

[Guest wildpegasus]

<<They went on to have a good match with Barbarian and Haku at WM7, too.>>

 

That was probably their only WM win, too.

 

With the Brainbusters, I remember this badass part on Superstars once where the 'busters came out to ringside and Marty and Shawn looked at each and exchanged a few words, both nodded, then they just jumped over the top rope onto the 'busters and started brawling.

 

As for the Hart Foundation and Bulldogs, I think it sucks that the WM3 match was a six-man.

Thanks for all the responses guys.

 

 

Btw, Dynamite was BEYOND crippled (notice all the lost bodyweight) at WMIII. He was coming off that horrendous back injury that had him wheelchair bound for awhile so it was a good idea health wise to have the extra men there. But DK deicides to play the face in peril anyway!

[Guest DVD Spree]

Don't remember the date, but the Rockers-Busters SNME match where Heenan gets ejected after pulling the top rope down on Shawn after an irish whip is all kinds of awesome. I think it's on the SNME video with the Hogan-Bossman cage match, but I'm not 100%.

 

The very best of the Rockers-Orient Express series was the match they had on the first UK Rampage tape – man, I keep kicking myself for taping over that…

[Guest LooneyTune]

UK Rampage 91 where Andre was in the Rockers corner? If so... that match was about 50 times worse than the 1991 Rumble match. Too punchy-kicky with extra long resting, the normal for the Rockers when not televised or in the states.

 

The only time I can think of when Shawn had a good match in the UK was the ONO match v. DBS, and even that no one wants to remember because of the finish being changed because Shawn HAD to win a trophy title from the hometown guy.

[pochorenella 0]

Don't remember the date, but the Rockers-Busters SNME match where Heenan gets ejected after pulling the top rope down on Shawn after an irish whip is all kinds of awesome. I think it's on the SNME video with the Hogan-Bossman cage match, but I'm not 100%.

 

The very best of the Rockers-Orient Express series was the match they had on the first UK Rampage tape – man, I keep kicking myself for taping over that…

I'll have to rewatch my tapes to find which Rockers/BBusters match you're referring to 'cause I can't recall that specific spot with Heenan. The 2/3 falls match sticks to my mind as the best of the series IIRC, but it'll be fun to rewatch them all again.

 

Regarding the UK Rampage tape match vs Orient Express, I've never seen it and I'm mighty curious, but I find it difficult to believe it could be much better than the awesome Rumble 91 match.

 

Didn't Shawn had a match in the UK with Savage in one of those World Tour tapes or something? It was pretty decent IMO. Not better than ONO but still good.

[Guest krazykat72]

UK Rampage 91 where Andre was in the Rockers corner? If so... that match was about 50 times worse than the 1991 Rumble match. Too punchy-kicky with extra long resting, the normal for the Rockers when not televised or in the states.

 

The only time I can think of when Shawn had a good match in the UK was the ONO match v. DBS, and even that no one wants to remember because of the finish being changed because Shawn HAD to win a trophy title from the hometown guy.

I must have imagined Shawn having a good match with Savage in the UK in '92.

The Rockers busted ass far more than anyone else in that era, including the Hart Foundation.

Time to get over your biases.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest LooneyTune]

... (laughs at the hypocritcal comment) have you seen some of the garbage the Rockers did in dark matches? Or how bout almost every match Shawn Michaels has had on Coliseum Video from 1991-1993?

 

Face it... Shawn Michaels is the king of lazy when he wants to be, and if this going to turn into a Shawn v. Bret idiot war, both men were untouchable when they didn't feel like performing to their best efforts. Proof: Watch any HBK match vs. a midcarder in 1992-93, or the 1st Bret Hart CV.

 

Pfft... telling me not to be bias... besides, I've already gotten into this argument maybe 2 days ago... Shawn Michael has had plenty of good matches, and thats all I'm going to say.

[Guest Loss]

Time to get over your biases.

You're one to talk. I'm a huge fan of Shawn in the Rockers time period, and yes, Shawn did have a few scattered good matches during 1992-1993, but more often than not, he fell short. I still don't understand why he and Hennig could never seem to pull it together.

[Guest LooneyTune]

I can only come up with the explanation that Hennig was starting to feel the problems in his back, and Shawn was adding on some weight (hence the gut he had in June-September '93). I doubt it wasn't because they weren't compatable, because they kicked ass in their match at the March to WM VII Special (I think thats the one) in March 1991.

[Guest krazykat72]

Time to get over your biases.

You're one to talk. I'm a huge fan of Shawn in the Rockers time period, and yes, Shawn did have a few scattered good matches during 1992-1993, but more often than not, he fell short. I still don't understand why he and Hennig could never seem to pull it together. I'd love for you to point out, compared to others in the WWF, where exactly he fell short

What's pointing that thread out have to do with anything.

Michaels is ridiculously underrated these days and has been for a long time.

I actually *went back* and watched those matches.

The Piper match is shockingly good, as is the Crush match, all the Jannetty matches, the Summerslam '93 match is better than people give it credit for (bad finish). I've also watched a ton of Rockers matches lately as well as Michaels/Hart CHV era work against each other and it's not Shawn dogging it in just about all of those matches.

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest LooneyTune]

Most of those matches are very under-par considering the participants reputations, especially the Hart/Shawn matches. They were good, but not "wow" good, or "memorable" good. Just down the middle not anywhere in the league of spectacular but not bad enough to notice.

 

1993, Michaels had good matches with mainly Jannetty, which isn't surprising, but his matches with everyone else were... eh. Matches with Crush were very boring, mainly because Shawn relied a lot on resting and playing a memphis heel, and the few matches with Tatanka were good on the Tatanka scale (he sucked pretty much), but not so good on te Shawn scale.

 

The match with Perfect was alright, but the finish kills anything it had going, plus the fact WWF non-stop pimped it as the best thing ever, which is the kiss of death (see also: Hogan/Rock II) for anything.

[Guest krazykat72]

1993, Michaels had good matches with mainly Jannetty, which isn't surprising, but his matches with everyone else were... eh. Matches with Crush were very boring, mainly because Shawn relied a lot on resting and playing a memphis heel, and the few matches with Tatanka were good on the Tatanka, but not so good on te Shawn scale.

 

The match with Perfect was alright, but the finish kills anything it had going, plus the fact WWF non-stop pimped it as the best thing ever, which is the kiss of death (see also: Hogan/Rock II) for anything.

Seriously, How does how WWF pimped it in '93 play on how it is today?

I'm not looking at the promos going in, I'm only looking at the match.

Also, have actually watched the Crush matches recently?

That one on the IC title DVD is really fun. Michaels totally plays to Crush's strengths and does a great job at sticking and moving against a larger opponent.

It has a bad finish (count out I believe) but it's a good match.

The King of the Ring '93 one is fine too, if a little long.

I readily admit Michaels could get nothing out of Duggan in '93.

There's one Hart match with Michaels besides Survivor Series '92 and the decent CHV cage match that stands out.

Bret wins it with a roll up and it's about 13 minutes. I forget which tape it's on.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest LooneyTune]

I've seen three Crush/HBK matches lately: UK Rampage 93 (Crush wins by CO), KOTR Qualifying Match (2xCO), and the KOTR IC Title Match (HBK pinned Crush in cheap finish). None of them stood out as good (**-range), but I'll easily say I enjoyed the UK one, only because the crowd was really into it, despite not much happening, and it only being about 8 or 9 minutes.

[natey2k4 0]

Bret/Shawn had a good cage match on one of the Bret Hart CHV's as well....

 

and is it just me or did anyone else like Marty Jannetty better then Michaels?

[The Tino Standard 0]

Man, it's just depressing to look at the tag team scene 15 years ago vs. now. In 2005, they've got twice as many workers and two tag team championships, yet maybe a 1/4 of the number of viable teams they had back then.

 

Sure, you can make a case that teams like the Bushwackers being a joke, but the fact is, for every crap team like that, they had gems like Demolition, the Hart Foundation and the Rockers and countless others.

 

And above all else, the tag division consisted of TAG TEAMS, not "a collection of singles wrestlers paired up because they have nothing else to do."

[Guest korndogg123]

Just downloaded the Harts/Rockers match from SNME and watched it for the first time. Very good match w/ a sweet spinning bump by Michaels off an Anvil flying tackle that he ended up no-selling, but it was sweet anyway. The double DQ ending I thought actually added to the match rather than take away from it w/ a great story. An extra point of interest, the Harts were interviewed and favored in the match by Jesse Ventura (heel announcer) and were the aggressors throughout the match as Michaels played the face in peril. The match took place a few weeks after WM6, so obviously Demolition hadn't turned yet. Were they teasing a Hart Foundation heel turn at this point? They seemed kinda heelish w/ their pre-match comments and although they usually are pretty aggressive during their matches, they seemed particularly brutal when beating on Michaels. As I said, interesting double DQ ending w/ the three team brawl between three face teams in the Rockers, Harts, Demos. The Rockers ended up gettin a title shot a couple months later right b4 Summerslam after Crush debuted.

[Guest LooneyTune]

I think there were rumors of a Hart Foundation heel turn at the time, but that never surfaced, and Demolition turned instead, which happended around the time when Bill Eadie was no longer able to compete on a full time schedule and brought in Crush.

[Guest wildpegasus]

One of the cool things about Bret was that he would do something heelish even if he was a face especially if he happened to be wrestling another face.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Seeing Bret wrestle heel-ish in the 90s (pre-Anti-America angle) was like a breath of fresh air for him. Good examples are the match already mentioned vs. The Rockers, the match vs. the LOD on WFest 91, his matches vs big men during the mid 90's, especially the Undertaker (at Rumble 96) to name a few.

[strummer 0]

I can only come up with the explanation that Hennig was starting to feel the problems in his back, and Shawn was adding on some weight (hence the gut he had in June-September '93). I doubt it wasn't because they weren't compatable, because they kicked ass in their match at the March to WM VII Special (I think thats the one) in March 1991.

On the Bloodbath DVD, during the Jannety v Shawn Cage match, Raven points out the huge gut Shawn was sporting during that time period. Shawn sleepwalked through that match and wasn't even trying AT ALL . I'm pretty sure it was a combination of drugs and contract negotiations that saw him dog it in the ring in the summer/fall of 93. 1993 was a real bad year for Shawn, but he rebounded big time in 94.

 

As far as him being a better worker in the Rockers days, he probably was. He sold a lot better and was able to time his babyface combacks perfectly in the context of a tag match. No one could take a beating like Shawn or Marty. But let's not forget that when Shawn went singles and was being groomed as a top guy from 94-96, he had to adapt to what Vince McMahon wants in his top babyface stars, which is random no selling, overt charisma,constantly pandering to the crowd, and having a "superman" like aura. Bret somehow maintained his style once he made it to the top, being really the only WWE main eventer not to play superman.