anyone been watching the Congressional hearings?

[Guest LooneyTune]

EDIT: I don't like Schilling, but god damn did he totally own Canseco. Hilarious.

Thats actually been the only "entertaining" part that wasn't "circus"ish.

[Guest Brian]

You have to offset that muscling things out with the downsides of slowing down. And you still have to catch up to pitchers that are using the drugs who can push off the mound harder, with more weight, and can't throw longer in the games. And what about the balls that don't fall because they carry too much.

 

Precious Roy, what you're saying is that if a guy uses a drug, that supposedly will make him a better hitter, that the team won't want to bring him up?

[iliketurtles 0]

Any respect I had for Big Mac was gone after watching the testimonies today.

 

Just admit it and come clean.

[Bored 0]

I know it's a huge leap of logic for some but let's say hypothetically McGwire didn't take steroids, which is possible, why should he come clean? If he denied that he took steroids those who are already convinced he did wouldn't believe him. He had nothing to gain by admitting or denying using steroids.

[tominator89 0]

McGwire really looked bad on the "How do you know steroids are bad?" question.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I didn't think he did use steroids (well other than in the 80s). But now I suspect he did thanks to his testimony. That's why it was damaging. People who didn't think he did them now suspect him.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

McGwire really looked bad on the "How do you know steroids are bad?" question.

He should've just turned the question around. How do these congressmen know steroids are bad?

[Styles 0]

McGwire looked bad in his response, but really what else should he say? He's not going to admit if he used them and if he says he didn't no one would believe him anyway. It was stupid to call him in there because like he said, he's a retired player. This is to evaluate the current drug policy, not analyse past hearsay...at least in theory...

[tominator89 0]

I've never done heroin, but I can explain why it's bad. How? Just recite facts based on other reports. At the very least, he is a parent and should have been able to SAY SOMETHING. An adult (athlete) has no clue why steroids are bad? It looked terrible.

[Precious Roy 0]

Precious Roy, what you're saying is that if a guy uses a drug, that supposedly will make him a better hitter, that the team won't want to bring him up?

 

No, no, no, that's not at all what I was saying. I said that steroids will not make a bad ballplayer good. If you don't have the tools to make it in the bigs, taking steroids probably won't change that. They're a talent enhancer, they don't make up for a lack of it. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa....whoever, are all talented players in their own right who were given a boost by steroids, but they made the pros on their own merit, in Bonds case he was great before he started doping, it just made him greater.

[Guest Brian]

I don't know. There are alot of talented guys in the minors, different levels of talent, and if you enhance that, it's going to bring you up to another level. If you're a borderline, or even just a little further down, then the extra boost of taking steroids should put you over the hump.

[fairtoflair7 0]

Did anybody find it funny every time Sosa spoke? Funny stuff...like out of an SNL skit or something. (with his accent) "I can't tell you stuff I don't know"

[Precious Roy 0]

I don't know. There are alot of talented guys in the minors, different levels of talent, and if you enhance that, it's going to bring you up to another level. If you're a borderline, or even just a little further down, then the extra boost of taking steroids should put you over the hump.

Agreed, but the discussion was more about guys with poor skills juicing, not guys who more or less have what it takes to get a shot in the bigs if things go well for them. If a guy with good power and a shitty eye who K's and pops up constantly takes steroids he's still going to have a shitty eye and k and pop up constantly, the only difference will be the one's that he does hit well will go a little further. But you take a guy, I'll use Caminiti as an example, who's a hard worker with good but not great skills and enough physical ability to get as far as the pros, steroids can accentuate what they do possess. In Caminiti's case he had good bat speed and a good eye but was a flyball hitter who made too many outs, and juice made him a homerun hitter. You have to have the building blocks in place for steroids to make a difference, to use another drug analogy it's like Hendrix playing his best licks when he was spaced out on acid. Yeah, the acid took it over the top, but if he didn't have his talent and creativity it wouldn't matter, it would be like you or me trying to play guitar on acid, a fucking mess.

 

The only reason I even got into this was because 2Gold (?) was harping on this point when I assumed that it was absurdly obvious to everyone how steroids work and why they work for only certain people as far as sports like baseball go. But now I've had a couple people not understand what I said, so apparently it isn't as obvious as I thought. Sorry for being a dick earlier, 2Gold

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Something I posted at NMB...

 

There were times I wanted to bang my head against the wall.

 

Jim Bunning was his embarassment, and highlighted the worst sentiments regarding the issues. There are people who don't really care about the steroids. They just feel in their hearts that THEIR players represented wholesome, pure baseball, and that today's players are just a bunch of overpaid, whining crybabies. Let me share a few passages from Bill James' Historical Abstract...

 

Observing the 1978 World Series, Joe Sewell offered the opinion that only two members of the '78 Yankees would have been able to make the Yankees team in 1932.  And he thought those two, Thurman Munson and Ron Guidry, would have both been in the bullpen.

 

The boys don't take the game seriously as we used to.  I remember in my day we ate, slept and lived baseball.  Swing music and the automobile have changed the temperment of youth.

Hooks Dauss, 1937

 

Base ball today is not what it should be.  The players do not try to learn all the fine points of the game as in the days of old, but simply try to get by.....In my day, the players went into the clubhouse after a losing game with murder in their hearts....It's positively a shame, and they are getting big money for it, too."

Bill Joyce, 1916

 

You get the picture.

 

In my opinion, Congress wasted alot of time yesterday. We can spent time on a futile search to find who used steroids in the past, but we can never prove anything, we do not know exactly what they used, we do not know how steroids affected their performance, and most importantly, we can not perform a fair review by fingering EVERYONE who took steroids.

 

Steroids are a problem in baseball. They became a problem for two reasons. One, because of large monetary rewards to improving performance, and two, because of a lack of any kind of mechanism preventing steroid use. A few players start using steroids, and see positive gains from their use. Other players see this and pick up on it. Soon, players are forced to use steroids not to enhance their performance, but merely to ensure their survival in a competitive sport. These players would prefer not to take steroids, but have no choice if they wish to remain in baseball.

 

From this point, the solution is simple. Introduce testing and mechanisms in order to catch steroid abusers. The goal is not to punish steroid users, but to STOP the use of steroids. Congressmen spent many hours harping on the "weak" consequences of steroid violations. They are missing the point. Repeated violations induce harsher penalities. Either the player will continue to abuse steroids and face harsher penalties, or he will stop. If the player ceases to use steroids, I am satisfied.

 

Finally, the parents trotted out were disgusting. To imply that baseball players using steroids contributed to their deaths is as spurious as parents suing Judas Priest for their lyrics. The macho-bullshit competitive atmosphere of high school sports is more responsible. High school kids are grilled religiously about the dangers of alcohol, smoking, and unprotected sex. Yet they continue to engage in drinking, smoking and unprotected sex. They do not engage in steroid use because their "heroes" do so. They engage in steroid use because there are performance rewards for doing so, and no enforcement mechanisms in place to prevent it (and in this case, the parents are not doing their job).