Proof of Jesus

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

The Chinese astrologers of the time made note of the Star of Bethlehem around the time Jesus was believed to have been born.

 

American Indians have stories in their history about a "White man" who came and stayed with them and taught scriptures, however there were no white men on the continent at this point supposedly, and Jesus was supposedly "Olive skinned" and we Americans always just paint him as the Brown haired caucasian.

 

The Shroud of Turin might be considered proof as well, but that again is very debatable.

 

Latest Shroud evidence from BBC ... A Second Face

 

 

Any other physical evidence or historical evidence we know of?

[Nighthawk 0]

American Indians have stories in their history about a "White man" who came and stayed with them and taught scriptures, however there were no white men on the continent at this point supposedly, and Jesus was supposedly "Olive skinned" and we Americans always just paint him as the Brown haired caucasian.

Nah, that's Mormon.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

American Indians have stories in their history about a "White man" who came and stayed with them and taught scriptures, however there were no white men on the continent at this point supposedly, and Jesus was supposedly "Olive skinned" and we Americans always just paint him as the Brown haired caucasian.

Nah, that's Mormon.

Which part? The Indian visit or the olive skinned or what?

[Nighthawk 0]

The Indian visit. Joseph Smith made all that up, hence the white man part, it's exactly the kind of mistake he'd make.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

So your not a big believer in the whole "God and Jesus appeared to me" story I take it.

 

If that's so, I agree.

 

 

What became of the gold plates he found the scriptures on?

[Nighthawk 0]

They didn't exist. According to tradition, however, he gave them back to Moroni.

[Guest Brian]

The Chinese astrologers story doesn't mesh with the bible IIRC, because the star doesn't move, which it would need to after the wise men visited Herod and shifted from heading East to South.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

They didn't exist. According to tradition, however, he gave them back to Moroni.

Pardon my ignorance but Moroni?

 

 

 

I'm really enjoying the info I'm learning in these two threads.

[Nighthawk 0]

Supposedly a prophet, son of Mormon, who appeared to Jospeh Smith as an angel to guide him to the golden plates.

[Skywarp! 0]

The Chinese astrologers story doesn't mesh with the bible IIRC, because the star doesn't move, which it would need to after the wise men visited Herod and shifted from heading East to South.

One theory suggests that the star the Wise Men most likely followed was actually Jupiter, which was in the constellation of Aries at the time (an astrological alignment that would suggest the birth of a great king). Yeah, I watched the Discovery Channel today.

[Nighthawk 0]

No you didn't. The Discovery Channel has denigrated to nothing but shows with extraordinaryly gay hosts telling you how to make your home stunning on a budget and shows about tricking out cars.

[Skywarp! 0]

^ They must have taken a break today to run shows that the History Channel had more business showing, I suppose.

[Guest BobBacklundRules]

I just did a quick search on "secular jesus" and pulled up a few examples to look at:

 

JOSEPHUS: (37-101 A.D.)

Josephus was born in Jerusalem only four years after Jesus' crucifixion. He was an eyewitness to much of what he recorded in the first century A.D. Josephus mentions many events and people from the Gospels. Josephus was an Orthodox Jew who was commissioned by the Romans to write a history of the Jewish people and Rome up until that point.

 

Mentions Jesus: Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3.

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

 

Mentions James, the half-brother of Jesus: Antiquities, Book 20, ch. 19.

"Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."

 

TACITUS: (55-117 A.D.)

Cornelius Tactitus is regarded as the greatest historian of ancient Rome. Writing on the reign of Nero, Tacitus alludes to the death of Christ and to the existence of Christians in Rome.

 

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."

 

 

BABYLONIAN TALMUD: (Completed in the 6th Century A.D.)

The Babylonian Talmud is a Rabbinic commentary on the Jewish scriptures (Tanach: Old Testament). They are a look into what a hostile source was saying about Jesus. They couldn't deny his miracles so they claim that it was sorcery rather than admit to what was a known fact. They also admit that Yeshu (Hebrew for Jesus) was hanged (Crucified: Luke 23:39, Galatians 3:13).

 

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery (an admission of his miracles) and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"

The Babylonian Talmud, vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a.

 

 

LETTER OF MARA BARSARAPION: (73 A.D.)

Mara Bar-Serapion was a Syrian who lived in the first century A.D. He wrote a letter to his son Serapion that mentions the Jews who killed their King. The letter is now in the possession of the British Museum.

 

"What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?...After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men...The wise king...Lived on in the teachings he enacted."

 

 

Thallus: (52 A.D.)

One of the first secular writers that mentioned Christ. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Unfortunately, his writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, a Christian who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun (Luke 23:44-45).

 

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."

Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.

[AboveAverage484 0]

They didn't exist. According to tradition, however, he gave them back to Moroni.

Mormons are some of the nicest people I know, but their religion is pretty out there. I loved the South Park episode about Joseph Smith.