Batista on RAW last night

[AndrewTS 0]

Cena as champ need not be programmed against a strong heel, as much as a strong personality, either heel or face. Cena is pretty shallow character wise, and whoever he faces post-WM needs to strong enough and deep enough to help cover Cena's weaknesses. I think Eddie will beat Rey, which will be used to put Eddie in the title picture, and that with JBL going after his title, they'll have enough to cover for what Cena lacks.

Good point, but there's the risk of Eddy being more likable than Cena, and stealing some of his luster, whether or not he actually tries. A heel feud would probably seem the "safer" bet to WWE.

 

And when you refer to Eddie being put in the title picture, how do you mean? As in, how would they build to it? Would they be initially hostile, friendly, competitive? When would they first face for the title? When would it be blown off? Same as what Dark Age proposed?

[Dark Age 0]

They've killed the FU. Cena should use something bigger to beat JBL. Or, have JBL kick out of the FU and get the win, and leave a hint that Cena's going to have to bring a bigger move for the next time they meet. HINT!

[AndrewTS 0]

They've killed the FU. Cena should use something bigger to beat JBL. Or, have JBL kick out of the FU and get the win, and leave a hint that Cena's going to have to bring a bigger move for the next time they meet. HINT!

I think WWE has proven, historically, that faces can get away with monumentally shitty finishers.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The appeal is in the chase. They should have the title win be the blowoff, not start the feud with it. Once JBL loses he's probably going down the card faster than Honky Tonk Man did.

The problem with that theory is that JBL is a Vince favorite, so he's probably not going down the card, and is likely to be kept in the title picture. JBL might not be Cena's main opponent post-WM, but he'll be one of his opponents. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the JBL v Cena feud lasts way past Wrestlemania.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Cena as champ need not be programmed against a strong heel, as much as a strong personality, either heel or face. Cena is pretty shallow character wise, and whoever he faces post-WM needs to strong enough and deep enough to help cover Cena's weaknesses. I think Eddie will beat Rey, which will be used to put Eddie in the title picture, and that with JBL going after his title, they'll have enough to cover for what Cena lacks.

And when you refer to Eddie being put in the title picture, how do you mean? As in, how would they build to it? Would they be initially hostile, friendly, competitive? When would they first face for the title? When would it be blown off? Same as what Dark Age proposed?

I think they'll use Eddie's big win at WM as a way to put Eddie in the title picture. Maybe even use Chavo to get in Eddie's ear again, telling him that he stole the show at Wrestlemania, so he should get a title shot. If Cena and JBL are kept together post-WM, then they can use this time to tease an Eddie heel turn, and conclude with either Eddie going heel or finally seeing through Chavo, and somehow using that to seque into an Eddie v Cena program.

[4hartthreat 0]

I have to agree with HTQ on this one. JBL's character just doesn't really work if he isn't champion or at least bitching about being "cheated" out of his championship and fighting to get it back. I don't think JBL is going anywhere no matter what happens at WM.

[Dark Age 0]

The appeal is in the chase. They should have the title win be the blowoff, not start the feud with it. Once JBL loses he's probably going down the card faster than Honky Tonk Man did.

But IS the appeal in the chase? Nobody has been paying money to see any of the faces chasing JBL, so why stick with it if it's bombing? Why not see if JBL trying to get revenge on Cena is any better? They could have a rematch at JD, which JBL wins by DQ. Then he challenges Cena to a Bullrope match at GAB. Have JBL be a big astronomical freak, and babble about how it's destiny that he's to beat Cena, just like he did Eddie last year. Then he loses, and Eddie congratulates Cena on doing what he couldn't do one year prior. JBL takes his anger out on Eddie in the future, while you have Cena as a champion fighting against all odds, not knowing defeat. This works too.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Cena and JBL can fight over the title for the next few months, while Eddie can go after the US Title, but with Chavo in his ear telling him that he should be going after the WWE Title instead. By the time Cena v JBL gets blown off, the Eddie angle can be climaxed with a heel turn or him seeing through Chavo, and then they can go with Eddie v Cena.

[Dark Age 0]

They've killed the FU. Cena should use something bigger to beat JBL. Or, have JBL kick out of the FU and get the win, and leave a hint that Cena's going to have to bring a bigger move for the next time they meet. HINT!

I think WWE has proven, historically, that faces can get away with monumentally shitty finishers.

Well, yeah, but that's not my point. My point is that the move is treated like crap, as well as looking like crap. Everyone has kicked out of it.

[AndrewTS 0]

Sounds good, HTQ. I figure it's a lock anyway for Backlash to have JBL/Cena II, because it makes sense for JBL to bitch his way into a rematch some way, and it's the strongest match SD has for the show for now.

 

(SD is getting Backlash right? If so, and if Batista wins, wouldn't it give him a month or so without a decent feud? Think they'd do a slow build up for his first PPV title defense, or perhaps spend a few weeks with a mini-feud where he'd squash some midcard heel?)

[strummer 0]

Backlash is a Raw PPV.

[chaosrage 0]

I too am amused, but for different reasons. I shall not reveal them.

 

EDIT: Also, I await a post from Rodney Mack molests cats.

Is it because of the fact that HTQ is so easily amused? Or that he made an ass of himself and then backed off? Or is it because his super awesome debating skills are saved for people of true importance such as chaosrage, a man with cookie monster as his avatar? Maybe seeing that C really is for cookie inspired HTQ to his inspiring commentary on HHH not winning this year but winning EVERY WM main event to come.

Do you have something against cookie monster? I think that's ban worthy.

 

And HTQ's post made sense, but I still can't see HHH losing WM twice in a row. That's not HHH's style. His style is to win every WM main event to come including this WM.

[4hartthreat 0]

I apologize to the monster if he took any offense from it. I love you cookie monster!

 

And you're right, HHH WON'T lose two WM main events in a row.

[Guest Shadow]

and it also allows him do the old

 

"Yes He got one by me but in the end, I put him down for good" excuse by putting Batistia over @ Mania and then getting the title back in 3 months. Adds another bulletpoint to his list and another notch on his reign chart.

Where does he keep this chart you speak of? It interests me.

 

I don't think Triple H will win the title back from Batista. He needs a go between, like Orton last year, so that his dominance is less obvious. Maybe even two!

When was the last time there was 2 reigns between Triple H's reigns?

 

Reign One

Won title from Foley- night after 1999 Slam.

-Lost title to McMahon

-Title Forfeited

Reign Two

-Triple H wins 6 Pac Challenge for vacant title

-Loses title to TBS @ Survivor Series 1999

Reign Three

-Triple H Beats TBS on January 3rd 2000 Raw

-Loses title to The Rock @ Backlash 2000

Reign Four-Triple H beats the Rock @ Judgment Day in Iron Man match

-Lost title to The Rock but wasn't directly pinned as McMahon was pinned, costing him the title.

-Rock loses title to Kurt Angle @ No Mercy 00

-Rock wins title back from Kurt Angle @ No Way Out 01'

-Austin wins title from Rock @ Mania

*Triple H is Injured shortly after this*

-Austin loses title to Angle at Unforgiven 99

-Austin wins title back from Angle on raw 2 weeks later

-Jericho wins wcw and wwe title to become first ever undisputed champion

Reign Five

-Beats Jericho @ WMX8

-Loses title to Hogan @ Backlash

-Hogan loses title to Undertaker

-Taker loses title to Rock

-Rock loses title to Lesnar

*WWE Title is seperated from Raw's new exclusive World Title

Reign Six

-Beats Ric Flair to award himself the title in fall of 2002.

-loses title to HBK @ Survivor Series 2002

Reign Seven

-beats HBK @Armageddon

-loses title to Goldberg @ Unforgiven 2003

Reign eight

-beats Goldberg and Kane @ Armageddon 2003

-loses title to Chris Benoit @ WMXX

-Randy orton beats benoit @ Slam 04

Reign nine-Triple H beats randy orton @ Unforgiven 2004

-Title was stripped from Triple H due to constroversial finish in title defense with Edge and Benoit

Reign Ten

-Defeated Batista, Benoit, Jericho, Orton, Edge in Elimination Chamber.

 

So in between reign 4 and 5, there were 7 title changes but HHH was either involved in the true big storyline(love triangle) or was injured. Only one other time were there more then 1 champion in between Triple H and HHH was still the focal point of the show.

[Golgo 13 0]

I see no reason why Cena should have ever dropped the Protoplex. He had used it a few times and changed its name to the Killswitch, then not long after he began using the FU, it was gone like that. Vastly superior to the FU, anyway, and it would serve as a nice secondary finisher now.

 

But IS the appeal in the chase? Nobody has been paying money to see any of the faces chasing JBL, so why stick with it if it's bombing?

 

I don't want to go too far defending JBL, but there are plenty of reasons his run bombed. Him turning and winning the belt out of nowhere, for one, so it took at least two or three months for fans to begin warming up to him.

 

Then there was the fact that outside of Eddie he hasn't really feuded with any dynamic opponents that could carry the load and play off him.

 

Undertaker is basically there to pop the crowd and was coming fresh off his awful Heidenreich feud. Booker had been mishandled for a while now and joined SD as a heel, spent the months running down SD and the fans, then turned and hadn't even been a face for a month before his PPV match with JBL, and I don't think anyone seriously gave him a chance. With Angle it was all kind of awkward, what with them both being heels and it seemed like they just stuck him in because they had no plans for him otherwise. With Show, I don't think anyone took him seriously either, and he was coming off feuding with Angle's cronies, if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it's not like any of these guys had very long to gain sympathy in their plights against JBL, nor was there much build to their matches with JBL in the first place.

 

Anyway, with that said, I'd prefer they stick with JBL until he surpasses one year as champ, and that's when Cena gets it.

[iggymcfly 0]

JBL has held the title for longer than anyone since Kevin Nash. Just think about that for a second. The nWo didn't exist yet, Nash was still playing Diesel in the WWF. With a reign that long, I don't see any reason that one loss at Mania would end the feud.

[Dark Age 0]

and it also allows him do the old

 

"Yes He got one by me but in the end, I put him down for good" excuse by putting Batistia over @ Mania and then getting the title back in 3 months. Adds another bulletpoint to his list and another notch on his reign chart.

Where does he keep this chart you speak of? It interests me.

 

I don't think Triple H will win the title back from Batista. He needs a go between, like Orton last year, so that his dominance is less obvious. Maybe even two!

When was the last time there was 2 reigns between Triple H's reigns?

 

Reign One

Won title from Foley- night after 1999 Slam.

-Lost title to McMahon

-Title Forfeited

Reign Two

-Triple H wins 6 Pac Challenge for vacant title

-Loses title to TBS @ Survivor Series 1999

Reign Three

-Triple H Beats TBS on January 3rd 2000 Raw

-Loses title to The Rock @ Backlash 2000

Reign Four-Triple H beats the Rock @ Judgment Day in Iron Man match

-Lost title to The Rock but wasn't directly pinned as McMahon was pinned, costing him the title.

-Rock loses title to Kurt Angle @ No Mercy 00

-Rock wins title back from Kurt Angle @ No Way Out 01'

-Austin wins title from Rock @ Mania

*Triple H is Injured shortly after this*

-Austin loses title to Angle at Unforgiven 99

-Austin wins title back from Angle on raw 2 weeks later

-Jericho wins wcw and wwe title to become first ever undisputed champion

Reign Five

-Beats Jericho @ WMX8

-Loses title to Hogan @ Backlash

-Hogan loses title to Undertaker

-Taker loses title to Rock

-Rock loses title to Lesnar

*WWE Title is seperated from Raw's new exclusive World Title

Reign Six

-Beats Ric Flair to award himself the title in fall of 2002.

-loses title to HBK @ Survivor Series 2002

Reign Seven

-beats HBK @Armageddon

-loses title to Goldberg @ Unforgiven 2003

Reign eight

-beats Goldberg and Kane @ Armageddon 2003

-loses title to Chris Benoit @ WMXX

-Randy orton beats benoit @ Slam 04

Reign nine-Triple H beats randy orton @ Unforgiven 2004

-Title was stripped from Triple H due to constroversial finish in title defense with Edge and Benoit

Reign Ten

-Defeated Batista, Benoit, Jericho, Orton, Edge in Elimination Chamber.

 

So in between reign 4 and 5, there were 7 title changes but HHH was either involved in the true big storyline(love triangle) or was injured. Only one other time were there more then 1 champion in between Triple H and HHH was still the focal point of the show.

What's your point? I said they might put the belt on two different people before H gets it back, so that his bullshit doesn't become too obvious. Everyone expects him to get it back straight away, so having 2 champs before he wins the belt again might kid some people. They haven't done it before? And? Your point?

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

I think Vince wants to give others a chance at the top and HHH "acts" as if he wants that as well but I think he says the Triple H character is just too important for the WWE and without HHH at the top the WWE won't draw. Of course that's bullshit but Vince is dumb sometimes.

[iggymcfly 0]

I really think they're making the effort to build up new heel challengers for Batista this time. I mean with Benoit, you had one half-assed match with Kane, and every other successful title defense was over HHH.

 

But with Batista, they're doing all this work setting up the "Money in the Bank" ladder match just so that Edge can be a credible challenger for him, and Orton's going to be a good natural feud too. It might sound naive, but I really think they're going to do things right this time.

[Adam 0]

When is the last time that HHH never really had the physical upperhand in a feud? When is the last time that HHH got beaten down on the Raw before the PPV and hasn't won?

My god your right... the last guy who physically dominated Triple H like this before a PPV match was... Scott Steiner. I now believe the possibility that Dave may lose.

[Promoter 0]

Actually, you guys are forgetting the Goldberg feud. Goldberg manhandled Triple H before Unforgiven on raw during the "retirement party" for Goldberg done by Trips. Goldberg went on to win the title. I found this old tape by accident and you know Batista is kind of more over now than Goldberg was in 2003 for his match with Trips.

[AndrewTS 0]

But with Batista, they're doing all this work setting up the "Money in the Bank" ladder match just so that Edge can be a credible challenger for him, and Orton's going to be a good natural feud too. It might sound naive, but I really think they're going to do things right this time.

I had assumed the MitB match would have been used to decide a challenge for Summerslam, since otherwise they likely wouldn't have bothered saying "any time within the next 12 months" and would have just said for the next PPV. However, a two-month span or so is possible too, I guess.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I'm telling you, Jericho or Benoit winning the MITB and using the contract to win the belt from an exhausted HHH is the only way to send the fans home happy. No, Batista doesn't count.