Final verdict on DVD editing of Lesnar v Goldberg?

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

Gotta figure this incident and the matt hardy spectacle made it not so heart-breaking to Vince that they won't be running any shows in MSG anytime soon.

[Papacita 0]

the reason the match sucked was because the crowd turned it into a trainwreck from the start and both guys obviously didn't know how to deal with it.

That's the main problem with the match, and that's a problem you can't blame the fans for. As workers, it's their job to be able to feel the crowd out and adjust accordingly, and they didn't do that. Blame the crowd all you want, but I can almost guarantee that if they had picked up the pace and provided a little more action, the fans wouldn't have shit on it the way that they did.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

They didn't know how to deal with it because there was no way to deal with it. The only reaction that I have ever seen even remotely similar is for Lex Luger vs. Barry Windham at The Great American Bash 1991 and for Buff Bagwell vs. Booker T on RAW after the WCW buyout, and neither of those were nearly as severe as the guys wrestling weren't leaving the company.

 

If a crowd turns on a match from the start that severely and personally has it in for both participants, there is no salvaging it because they won't suspend belief, and won't get into the match. Those fans didn't even give the match a chance and it's obvious. On top of that, Steve Austin spent the entire match egging the crowd on and encouraging them to derail it even more. If you put aside all bias, I don't know how you can possibly blame Lesnar or Goldberg for how that match turned out.

[Papacita 0]

Well I actually like Brock and am indifferent to Goldberg, so bias doesn't enter into it. Yes, fans were giving Brock shit from the start, but the crowd reaction didn't REALLY start to get bad until they were going through the motions with all the lock ups and the like. Plus you can't say that they would've shit on ANYTHING because they actually popped for things like Goldberg's spear. They could've done a lot more to get the crowd into it but they didn't, and the fault for that lies with them.

[bob_barron 0]

If a crowd turns on a match from the start that severely and personally has it in for both participants, there is no salvaging it because they won't suspend belief, and won't get into the match. Those fans didn't even give the match a chance and it's obvious. On top of that, Steve Austin spent the entire match egging the crowd on and encouraging them to derail it even more. If you put aside all bias, I don't know how you can possibly blame Lesnar or Goldberg for how that match turned out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If a crowd is shitting on the match, doing a feeling out process and a two minute long staredown is stupid. They should've just worked a power match for a few minutes and if they were still getting shit on, gone home.

[bob_barron 0]

The other humorous irony is that the New York crowd is totally disrespecting Lesnar and Goldberg for walking away from WWE after giving their notice, and creaming themselves over Steve Austin who had somewhat recently walked away from WWE twice on far less professional terms and racked up domestic abuse charges in his absence. Oh those New York fans are so sophisticated.

 

They weren't trying to be "sophisticated". Why should a crowd care about a match that had terrible buildup, and where both guys were leaving the next day?

 

The reason they cheered Austin is because Austin is a folk hero to a lot of these people. The way they portrayed his walkout made him look that much cooler, because it was a total Stone Cold thing to do.

 

I was there, and I couldn't give two shits about a match where both guys were leaving the next day, so I chose to amuse myself as did others.

[Guest JMA]

Wasn't Shane in the crowd that night, urging the fans to chant at Brock and Goldberg?

[Papacita 0]

Yeah, I think SK or someone said Shane was sitting in his section chanting "You Sold Out" with the rest of the crowd.

[Guest JMA]

Yeah, I think SK or someone said Shane was sitting in his section chanting "You Sold Out" with the rest of the crowd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah. Does that mean WWE WANTED the fans to shit on the match or was it just something Shane wanted to do?

[bob_barron 0]

Don't read anything into it.

 

I don't know if that Shane story is true, but the guy does get very into WWE live shows and like to do all the crowd chants and stuff

[Papacita 0]

I wonder if Shane participated in the wave during the JBL/Taker match at Summerslam.

 

I dunno if WWE wanted people to shit on the match (I remember one report saying that Vince came out after the match as a way of apologizing or something like that), but I got the sense that they kinda expected it when they had Austin give both guys the Stunner after the match. I know it was hinted at during the build up, but I always wondered whether or not they'd have gone through with it if Goldberg got cheered.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

I believe Scott Keith's report mentioning Shane was from Backlash the next month. He was sitting behind Shane the whole night, and according to him, Shane was chanting "You Screwed Bret" along with the crowd at HBK during the 3 way rematch, so it had nothing to do with Goldberg/Lesnar or WM XX.

 

It has already been said here numerous times, but the match had a terrible, terrible buildup. Goldberg wasn't even on TV in the weeks leading up to it, right? Then you stick Austin out there as the ref and HE is the one who gets all the attention, not the participants. Isn't that why Big Show was axed as the ref for Rock/Austin at WM 15? I think Austin hurt the match more than anything, because if you had Earl Hebner or Mike Chioda out there, at least he could tell them, "Hey Guys, speed it up and go home". Austin just stood back and watched, counted, and stunnered.

 

I remember watching it live and thinking that they were intentionally doing boring shoves, staredowns, and lockups to get MORE heat. It didn't make sense if the crowd was shitting all over you to go out and do 5 minutes of BORING moves. Now I look back on it and think they just didn't know how to handle it.

 

I was surprised that Vince or whoever didn't seem to think that there would be that kind of reaction. All 3 guys seemed totally lost out there once the crowd turned on them. If Vince was so certain that the X-8 crowd would be so pro-Hogan that he had him take a lear jet to get his red and yellow tights, don't you think he would know that everyone would shit on Goldberg/Lesnar?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Shane was chanting the "You Sold Out" at WM XX, not the "You Screwed Bret" at Backlash.

[Guest JMA]

I think it's kind of cool that Shane likes just being a fan sometimes. It makes him easier to relate to than the other McMahons.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

Not to be a prick, but from Scott Keith's Backlash 2004 LIVE Arena rant:

 

"FYI, my seats ended up being section 119, row 4 (which is literally one row off the floor and I was sitting right beside the hard camera and right behind the soundboard, dead center to the ring) and just to give you an idea of how great these seats were, Shane McMahon and Chuck Palumbo were sitting beside us. Shane was great, marking out like nuts all night and generally going with the flow."

 

From the HBK/Benoit/HHH match recap:

 

"Shawn takes him down into a Sharpshooter as Earl Hebner runs out as the new ref. This was supposed to be heel heat, but it was more like “I can’t believe they’re doing this” heat, and it just made us more pissed off at everyone involved in Montreal. Shawn breaks the move and slugs away on HHH in the corner, and now begins the mother of all “You Screwed Bret” chants at Shawn as he gets two on Benoit. TV doesn’t even do the chant justice, as it was THUNDEROUS live. Even Shane was chanting it!"

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Shane was chanting at Brock at WM XX as well, though.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Shane was definitely at WM XX chanting at Brock and Goldberg. I don't think I've read anybody other than SK say Shane was at Backlash chanting along with the crowd at Shawn.

[Secret Agent 0]

If Vince was so certain that the X-8 crowd would be so pro-Hogan that he had him take a lear jet to get his red and yellow tights, don't you think he would know that everyone would shit on Goldberg/Lesnar?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe that he sent Hogan home to get the red and yellows after X-8, so he could have them for RAW.

[Guest New Jake]

It has already been said here numerous times, but the match had a terrible, terrible buildup.  Goldberg wasn't even on TV in the weeks leading up to it, right?  Then you stick Austin out there as the ref and HE is the one who gets all the attention, not the participants.  Isn't that why Big Show was axed as the ref for Rock/Austin at WM 15?  I think Austin hurt the match more than anything, because if you had Earl Hebner or Mike Chioda out there, at least he could tell them, "Hey Guys, speed it up and go home".  Austin just stood back and watched, counted, and stunnered.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The post match stunners were a god send.

 

Would Lesnar and Goldberg have even cared if it was a real official? Would they have even taken notice? Doubtful. The added addition of Stone Cold only brought nothing but slight interest to a match which was slated to be a disaster. The booking of this match was an abortion to start with. Not because it was there last match, that was part of it. The fans just didn't care. Brock Lesnar declined rappidly after his 2nd title win and the fans never gave a shit about Goldberg who was never seen as anyone els other then WCW's poor attempt at creating they're own Stone Cold.

[Jericholic82 0]

If Vince was so certain that the X-8 crowd would be so pro-Hogan that he had him take a lear jet to get his red and yellow tights, don't you think he would know that everyone would shit on Goldberg/Lesnar?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe that he sent Hogan home to get the red and yellows after X-8, so he could have them for RAW.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hogan didnt have red and yellow for that raw, he came out in nwo gear, then rock made him tear his shirt, later on in the match he came out with the black and white boas and tights to "vooddoo child" or whatever its called. he didnt break out the red and yellow till the first split sd show IIRC, he came out for an in ring face to face with HHH (the match at backlash had been annoucned that night, changing from the orginal HHH-Taker match))

 

 

I have no further comments on brock-berg