Lakers vs. kings

[Guest]

For Shaq to claim that "the only way to beat (the Lakers) is to cheat" is stupid and hypocritical to mind-boggling levels.  And there is NO one who isn't a Laker fan that could look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that game 7 was officiated fairly.  For another PERFECT example of this kind of refereeing, get a copy of Game 7 of the Western Finals 2000, Blazers VS Lakers.  I love the idea that L.A. is the only team in the league that knows the rules and plays by them, while the rest are all a bunch of fucking cheating bastards.  For anyone to stand there and say that Rick Fox, the dirtiest cocksucker in the game, plays by the rules is bullshit.  And as far as them bitching, remember last year when Shaq kept bitching about Mutumbo traveling?  How fucking funny is that?

[Guest ErekT2k]

And there is NO one who isn't a Laker fan that could look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that game 7 was officiated fairly

 

Well, I'll step up to this. What exactly do you mean by fairly? Does it mean that the referees have to blow the whistle *every* single foul even if they don't see it or they can't see it? What you're stating is beyond farfetched. In my opinion, game 7 was the best officiated game this entire series. Both teams had no referee on their side, (take a look at the FTs, 33 towards the 30 attempts, pretty equal there).

 

I don't think the Lakers have the refs in their pockets or something, but in the conference finals the refs helped the Lakers

 

I divert the attention to Games 2 and 5. In one case, game 5 where Shaq fouled out, his sixth foul was called a tripping foul when all Shaq did was touch Bibby with a finger. And then I go back to the final shot where Bobby Jackson had a hold of Kobe's jersey. If you watch the replay, you'll see the end of Kobe's jersey. How did it come out? Wind cannot pull it out or else we would see jerseys flying everywhere the entire game. Referees helping the Lakers..... it's a theory. But then you would have to divert your attention to the "Referees helping the Kings" theory.

[Guest]

Well, I'll step up to this. What exactly do you mean by fairly? Does it mean that the referees have to blow the whistle *every* single foul even if they don't see it or they can't see it? What you're stating is beyond farfetched. In my opinion, game 7 was the best officiated game this entire series. Both teams had no referee on their side, (take a look at the FTs, 33 towards the 30 attempts, pretty equal there).

Fairly = The same level of severity of fouls called for either team.  Vlade Divac is not a dirty player and the calls he's gotten against him during this series, and particularly game 7 were absolutely retarded.  The defense always seems to be that Shaq is just too big and can't help it if he is swatting people to the ground like flies every time he's near them.  Well, the flipside to that is that the guys covering him can't really help it if they graze his arm or hand.  Besides, did you watch the game?  Even the commentators were bashing the refs, talking about all the bad calls against the Kings.  The officiating was stunningly and embarassingly incompetent, much as it was during the aforementioned Blazers/Lakers series of 2000.  Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but L.A. are the NBA's sweethearts right now, and they'll do anything to keep them on television.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

The King had plenty of chances to win the game so nobody should blame the officials. They shot poorly from the FT line and all they needed was to hit one more FT during regulation to win the game. They didn't get the job done.

[Guest Ripper]

Yeah...the Lakers got help getting there, but they got the job done in game seven straight up.  the Kings major problem was that only Webber and Bibby were looking to make plays at the end(yeah i know you guy are going to say Webber didn't score that much, but his screens, passes and such was just as important as Bibby's shots)  and whenever someone else touched the ball, they were looking to put it on Bibbys or Webbers shoulders and not take the shot (Doug Christie should have been at the end of the bench holding up his arm doing whatever that thing is he does...not in the game)

[Guest What?!]

You know this just reminds me of the time when the Bulls kept getting better and were getting closer to beating the Pistons back in the day.

 

With all that said, and me being a Laker fan, please anyone who can shoot some open threes consistently sign with the Lakers. I don't want to suffer near-heart attacks again.

[Guest Ripper]

Now all that needs to happen is the Kings finally beat the Lakers next year...then the Lakers for no realistic reason fire Phil Jackson and start trading all of the Laker once again for no realistic reason and we will have the Piston/Bull situtation come full circle.

[Guest]

whenever someone else touched the ball, they were looking to put it on Bibbys or Webbers shoulders and not take the shot (Doug Christie should have been at the end of the bench holding up his arm doing whatever that thing is he does...not in the game)

You hit THAT nail right on the fucking head.  Bibby was single-handedly carrying them, and for a team with as much talent and depth as the Kings, that should not happen.  As far as Webber, I know he was screening passes but they wouldn't even give him the fucking ball!  The only pass he got in OT was in the middle of serious traffic, and dropped as a result.  And don't even get me started on Christie, that sumbitch was the epitome of the traditional sports "goat" Sunday.

 

(Still pissed, if you can't tell)

[Guest ErekT2k]

Besides, did you watch the game?  Even the commentators were bashing the refs, talking about all the bad calls against the Kings.  

 

You're taking the word of Bill Walton and Steve Jones? Bill Walton is the biggest jackass and Steve lets Bill walk all over him. They may be entertaining to listen to but don't take whatever they say that seriously. And I did watch the game. The referees were fairer in game 7 than the rest of the series.

 

Vlade Divac is not a dirty player and the calls he's gotten against him during this series, and particularly game 7 were absolutely retarded.  

 

Let me ask you back: Did *you* watch the game? I'm saying Divac is the dirty player and a very bad actor as well. My point goes back to a play where Divac went up for the dunk but got slapped in the face by Brian Shaw.... or so we thought. When replay showed up, Brian Shaw's hand didn't even touch Divac's face, just his arm and Divac went flopping to the ground and holding his face and acting as if he was in pain. If you don't call that dirty then I don't know what is.

 

..but L.A. are the NBA's sweethearts right now, and they'll do anything to keep them on television.

 

You claim that you're not a conspiracy theorist, Perfect Plex, but that right there is still a conspiracy theory. They could be and the referees were actually helping the Lakers.... or the referees were just that stupid.... whatever it is, we don't know for sure. There isn't concrete proof that the NBA is fixing the shows regardless of how poorly the officials work.

 

As far as Webber, I know he was screening passes but they wouldn't even give him the fucking ball!  The only pass he got in OT was in the middle of serious traffic, and dropped as a result.  And don't even get me started on Christie, that sumbitch was the epitome of the traditional sports "goat" Sunday

 

Chris Webber will be known as the loser for the rest of the summer. And you can't blame traffic as a result of the dropped ball. Webber had his hand on the ball and nobody touched it on the Lakers' side. He just dropped it right after and Fisher picked it up. And they weren't giving him the ball because he hasn't proven that he wants it. Bibby will be the King of the Kings as far as I'm concerned. He wants the ball and he makes the shot. Webber? He gives screens and lets someone else do the job, and Bibby is back in the spotlight again (where he deserves to be, btw). And somebody tell the Maloofs to trade Doug Christie. If he wasn't waving love signs to his wife 50 times a game, maybe he would be playing so much better.

[Guest]

Vlade Divac IS a dirty player.  He's right up there with Stockton.  

 

And there is NO one who isn't a basketball fan that could look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that it is possible to stop Shaq without fouling him and getting away with it.

[Guest ErekT2k]

And there is NO one who isn't a basketball fan that could look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that it is possible to stop Shaq without fouling him and getting away with it.

 

You might wanna add that it is possible to stop Shaq without doubling, tripling, even quad teaming him as well. Because even with the double or triple teams, Shaq runs right through 70 percent of the time.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

It can be done, but teams just don't know how to do it. You have to use clever double teams like the Bulls did in the 1996 Playoffs. I bet the Lakers wished they had Tyron Lue because Derek Fisher has looked pretty bad against other small guards. The Lakers need a guard who can defend quick players and they need a consistent three point shooter. You would think Lindsey Hunter and Mitch Richmond would be able to help there, but they haven't. Devon George is a waste of space on the court.

[Guest ErekT2k]

You have to use clever double teams like the Bulls did in the 1996 Playoffs.

 

Still, we haven't seen those Bulls play these Lakers. It's tossed up in the air right now but like Spicy said, one on one, you can't stop Shaq unless you foul him. And even then, he has a 70-80 percent chance of getting the 3 point play.

 

You would think Lindsey Hunter and Mitch Richmond would be able to help there, but they haven't. Devon George is a waste of space on the court.

 

So true. Hunter was supposed to be a replacement for Lue but he just proved that he's slower and makes bad plays. Richmond.... a huge disappointment. Phil Jackson doesn't look for consistent 3 point shooters, he looks for defense the majority of the time. That's why Fisher, Hunter, and George are still here. But if I was Phil, I'd trade Hunter and George as soon as I can. Get a backup guard who can both play point and shooting so he can back up both Derek and Kobe. A Laker fan like me can only wish for Mike Bibby....

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

It's a damn shame that Devon George has to pass up open shots because he can't hit them.

[Guest Ripper]

I love watching Shaq in a close game when he doesn't want to risk the refs making a good call(the offensive fouls) and he uses skills to score, but as long as its not the end of the game and he's not in foul trouble, Shaq is unstoppable because he throws the rule book out the window.  If the refs really wanted to, they could foul Shaq out in 6 plays and none of them would be a bad call.  The Lakers wouldn't like but they would be right.

 

Vlade isn't a dirty player.  Stockton isn't a dirty player.  I call dirty when you do things that can hurt the other teams players with little reguard(AKA Malones "accidental elbows).  Stockton and Vlade know how to play the officials and get the benefit of the doubt and they use it.  Lets not act like Horry, Fox, Fisher and alot of times this series on offensive rebounds, Shaq don't flop to get the call from the refs.  I have never seen Vlade do anything that would cause injury to another player and I have seen stockton set some evil picks, but its the kind of sneakiness that I respect(and became very guilty of) when I used to play.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Vlade isn't a dirty player he just thinks that he's never fouled anyone in his whole career.

[Guest What?!]

Game 7 ratings are in and...

 

24 Million People!!!

 

So, if you're the conspiracy type, you can probably chalk up a rematch next year.

[Guest]

If the refs really wanted to, they could foul Shaq out in 6 plays and none of them would be a bad call.

 

They could also do that to anyone "defending" Shaq.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

All of the flopping and stuff is bad for the game.

[Guest Ripper]

Sometimes, though, it isn't even flopping when they are dealing with Shaq.. He is really putting the boom on them with the shoulder (although, I have been hit by guys 4 times my size in B-ball and it knocks you back, but never to the floor that often.)  They are trying to MAKE the officials have to make the right call, and the flopping came into play.  I for one wish everyone would stop flopping, but it would make the offensive fouls that much harder to call.

[Guest ant_7000]

Divac is crafty not dirty and gets the benefit because he's a veteran. Shaq does lower his shoulder to go through guys and they flop by force sometimes.

[Guest ErekT2k]

Crafty? He may be playing the referees but acting that bad just to get a call is "dirty" in my book. Acting hurt when he's not really hurt just so he can get the other player a flagrant is dirty. Flopping has really hurt this game. They should all just play street ball but then again, Shaq would kill everyone then.

[Guest ant_7000]

There's no flopping in streetball because there's no such thing as an offensive foul. Flopping has gotting worst in the league. But on the other hand the refs need to be consistent on calls, than that stuff won't get out of hand.

[Guest Ripper]

Shaq does play street ball when people shut down his actual skill part of the game.  Then its forget the hook shot, up and under and using his quickness and agility...it turns to ram into you with my shoulder and put up the shot.  But if the refs called that correctly, you have Shaq and Phil calling them cheaters...

[Guest ant_7000]

Shaq rams his shoulder and use the excuses to say he's big guy and he can't help it, and the defenders are like asking the refs what's not going make them draw fouls and the refs are not really sure to go about it.

[Guest Ripper]

You know whats funny, every off season, Shaq admitts to using the Offensive foul.  Last year, he talked about how great a defender Mutombo was and how it was the only way to get space.  I don't blame him for using it..I blame the refs for not calling it.  If I was playing and I noticed they never called travel on me, I know I would use it (Patrick Ewing and Jordan sure did).

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

If I was a ref, I wouldn't call an offensive foul if a player flopped, even if one was committed. That would eliminate the flopping.