The OaO NFL Draft 2005 Thread

[the pinjockey 0]

It doesn't help that he lost a year of NFL development time. He will be 25 going into training camp (I am assuming someone will sign him). You are getting into an area where he is getting old without a lot of upside.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Maurice Clarett got drafted over Jason White.

 

Heh heh.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Actually, the Bears taking Benson didn't make that much sense either.

Yeah, Thomas Jones was a 1400 yard total yardage back, and Anthony Thomas is still a solid backup. They should have traded down for multiple picks, because a quarterback doesn't even make sense for them with Grossman looking to be a solid pro

They could have used some beefing up of that awful, AWFUL offensive line.

Or hey, how about MIKE WILLIAMS? Still, they're a running team still trying to put an offense together. I can't complain too much, but would have rather seen them go WR.

The thing that doesn't make any sense about it is that, to be a running team YOU NEED an offensive line to begin with! The Bears already had some decent skill players.. Certainly not aything great, but Muhsin Muhammad and... um... Justin Gage? OK, maybe you've got a good point there. Williams was a horrible fit going to the Lions. Still not anything great, but the Eagles made it to the NFC Championship game 3 times with Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell, so it's not like the Bears can't do it as well with shitty receiving.. They just need an offensive line. What happens to Thomas Jones now? And whatever happened to that A-Train fellow who had the spectacular rookie season?

 

Either way, it's not that terrible a pick, as Chicago is turning into the kind of team that Lovie Smith wants, a strong defense with a kill-the-clock running offense.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I think A-train is a free agent.

[Damaramu 0]

Maurice Clarett got drafted over Jason White.

 

Heh heh.

We had Steve Zabel come visit our Sport History class today. He played at OU in the 60's and in the NFL from 70-79 and he said to the entire class "It's absolute horse shit that Jason White didn't get drafted."

That was kind of a funny line.

Anyways everyone I've talked to related to sports is certain that he's going to get signed.

Hell this guy on the radio thinks he's going to turn into an NFL Europe to the NFL type guy.

[teke184 0]

The market on Heisman-winning QBs hasn't been particularly great for the past decade or so.

 

The only Heisman QB to come out of school and get drafted high in recent memory is Carson Palmer and they intentionally sat him on the bench for a year to make sure he learned the Bungles' system.

 

 

Other Heisman QBs to come out in the past 20 years were Danny Wuerfful, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, Charlie Ward, Gino Torreta, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware, Vinnie Testaverde, and Doug Flutie.

 

 

Of those, very few are still in the league. Hell, Flutie and Testaverde are the only two I'm sure are STILL in the league and both have been fill-in QBs rather than true stars.

 

Charlie Ward's off playing in the NBA, Andre Ware was a bust, Detmer's riding the pine in Atlanta, Wuerfful is either in NFL Europe or out of the league completely, Crouch publically quit last year when he got cut yet again, and Gino Torreta dropped off the face of the Earth.

 

I think that Weinke is still with the Panthers but them drafting Louisville QB Stefan Lefors (who is related to current Panthers QB Jake Delhomme through marriage, BTW) means his days are numbered.

 

 

In short, Heisman QBs generally haven't panned out in the NFL in recent memory, so it's not a huge surprise that no one wanted to plunk down a draft pick on White when they could possibly sign him as a free-agent with no risk.

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah but Leinart will go #1.....maybe USC-QB's are immune from the curse?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Actually, the Bears taking Benson didn't make that much sense either.

Yeah, Thomas Jones was a 1400 yard total yardage back, and Anthony Thomas is still a solid backup. They should have traded down for multiple picks, because a quarterback doesn't even make sense for them with Grossman looking to be a solid pro

They could have used some beefing up of that awful, AWFUL offensive line.

Or hey, how about MIKE WILLIAMS? Still, they're a running team still trying to put an offense together. I can't complain too much, but would have rather seen them go WR.

The thing that doesn't make any sense about it is that, to be a running team YOU NEED an offensive line to begin with! The Bears already had some decent skill players.. Certainly not aything great, but Muhsin Muhammad and... um... Justin Gage? OK, maybe you've got a good point there. Williams was a horrible fit going to the Lions. Still not anything great, but the Eagles made it to the NFC Championship game 3 times with Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell, so it's not like the Bears can't do it as well with shitty receiving.. They just need an offensive line. What happens to Thomas Jones now? And whatever happened to that A-Train fellow who had the spectacular rookie season?

 

Either way, it's not that terrible a pick, as Chicago is turning into the kind of team that Lovie Smith wants, a strong defense with a kill-the-clock running offense.

This wasn't the year to draft for an O Line. Alex Barron, Jamaal Brown, that fella from Washington, and who else? Besides, none of them are an Orlando Pace-type instant wall of humanity that will anchor a line. Last season's biggest problem was INJURIES to the line. Good coaching and health can make any line work at least to some extent.

 

The main reason I wanted them to take Williams is because I'm certain he will be good immediately, and pick up all the nuances that turn a good receiver into a great one in about 4 seasons. Mushin Muhammad will be in his mid-late 30's by that point, and on the tail end of a career. He's fine for a target now, but there's no one there to develop aside from the classic Chicago Bears pair of burners that never amount to shit. Grossman needs something to throw at if he's expected to develop.

 

Jones is a very good backup RB at best, though, so I can't complain too much about them taking Benson, who is definitely worth it.

[iggymcfly 0]

Jason White's proven time and time again that he can't play against a good defense. He proved it against LSU, he proved it against Texas, and then he proved it emphatically against USC. Trust me, if Jason White ever did somehow play in the NFL, it would be like the Orange Bowl every day.

 

Now, the Arena Football League, on the other hand, could be a completely different story. The rules differences (fewer players on the field, forward motion allowed, etc.) simulate a talent advantage for the offense. Thus, White would once again be allowed to fling away at open receivers and throw TDs at will. Honestly, if I was an AFL GM, I'd make Jason White the top pick in the draft, and mortgage the rest of my team to get him if need be, but in the NFL, White would be nothing but a miserable failure.

[Damaramu 0]

Jason White's proven time and time again that he can't play against a good defense. He proved it against LSU, he proved it against Texas, and then he proved it emphatically against USC. Trust me, if Jason White ever did somehow play in the NFL, it would be like the Orange Bowl every day.

 

Now, the Arena Football League, on the other hand, could be a completely different story. The rules differences (fewer players on the field, forward motion allowed, etc.) simulate a talent advantage for the offense. Thus, White would once again be allowed to fling away at open receivers and throw TDs at will. Honestly, if I was an AFL GM, I'd make Jason White the top pick in the draft, and mortgage the rest of my team to get him if need be, but in the NFL, White would be nothing but a miserable failure.

He's played other good defenses and done just fine.

He played alright against USC. OU's defense lost that game(i mean they gave up 55 points).

Against LSU his line couldn't protect him. He would've done fine if he wasn't on his back 13 times in that game.

Then again people have come from the arena league to the NFL(Warner) and been a moderate success. I think maybe if he could get that pro style experience in the arena league he could do well coming over. Then again I don't care if he becomes a career arena QB. I like arena football. I don't have a favorite team though. I'd start rooting for the team he plays for and I mean if he made a decent career I'd just be happy he's playing football for a living. Even if it isn't NFL.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

I'd say Warner's 2 MVPs and 2 Super Bowls equal more than moderate success, though since they lost to New England he's sucked the big one.

[Damaramu 0]

I'd say Warner's 2 MVPs and 2 Super Bowls equal more than moderate success, though since they lost to New England he's sucked the big one.

That's what I was meaning. Not sustained success.

 

Anyways it appears that the ESPN guys really really like the Ravens pick of Mark Clayton. I mean I knew he was awesome but I didn't think anyone else knew he was awesome. I wish White had another year so we could actually see if it was him or Clayton.

But I'm glad they're giving him his props. The only time he was slowed down in college is under double coverage.

 

 

Local TV says White has fielded several free agent offers from NFL teams and is expected to sign an NFL contract by Thursday.

Will Peoples the undrafted reciever from OU is signing with the Bills.

[Damaramu 0]

Here's a good column by a guy I work with. It makes sense if you look at it in a rational context and not an "OMG they lost the last two games I hate that state" context.

 

NFL: bad pass on White

Staff Column

 

Aaron Francl

April 26, 2005

 

Fourteen.

That's the number of quarterbacks selected in Saturday and Sunday's NFL Draft. One by one their names were called from rounds one through seven, with one glaring omission--Jason White.

Somehow after the NFL's endless testing, scouting, poking and prodding White was deemed "undraftable."

A player who threw for 7,922 yards and 81 touchdowns in his career simply wasn't good enough to be drafted this year. But it wasn't White's production that was in question because, as they say, "numbers don't lie."

It was the several other knocks on White that hurt him.

* Knock No. 1--"the talent that White had around him enabled him to put up the numbers he did."

Sure, that is true, with OU sending three wide receivers to the NFL in the first three rounds it's obvious White was throwing to some super-talented players.

But is Matt Leinart's supporting cast any less talented? Was Ken Dorsey's? Nope, but somehow the gangly Miami quarterback whose workouts apparently nearly drew chuckles from NFL scouts was drafted by the 49ers--because he won football games. Gee, that sounds familiar.

* Knock No. 2--"he doesn't have an NFL arm."

White's arm strength isn't going to blow anyone away but is that more valuable than turning the football over? White threw 75 touchdown passes to just 19 interceptions in 2003 and 2004, which is something that no other quarterback, yes, even those drafted, can boast.

* Knock No. 3--"he can't stay healthy."

Right again. To say White was injury-plagued while at OU could be the understatement of the year but that didn't seem to stop teams from drafting other injury-prone players.

Miami running back, Frank Gore, who was drafted in round three, is one. Gore, who tore his anterior cruciate ligament in the Hurricane's spring game in 2002 and again in 2003 came back from both knee surgeries, just as White did--minus the production.

As the draft got down closer and closer to number 255, Mel Kiper and company all wondered aloud when White's name would be called.

Somehow teams would take chances on players such as Matt Cassel, who was Leinart's backup at USC.

The Patriots took the former starter in round seven and must have seen something more than his 2004 stats: 14 pass attempts, zero touchdowns and one interception--interesting choice to say the least.

But maybe the biggest head-scratchers came when players such as Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett and former FSU quarterback Adrian McPherson's names were called.

Clarett, whose troubles with the NCAA and failed court battle to break into the NFL as a sophomore have been well documented. But the kicker is that he also actually quit during his pro workout because of a slow 40 time, and most mock drafts had him possibly going undrafted. So what happens? The Denver Broncos select him with the last pick in the third round.

McPherson was booted from the Seminole's roster after stealing a blank check and cashing it as well as being accused of betting on Florida State football games, only to be removed from the program and college football for good. McPherson then heads to the Arena League and after a successful year enters the NFL draft and is selected by New Orleans in the fifth round.

While we're on the subject of "character," maybe the NFL should have read a little more into White's--a player who wasn't involved in any off-the-field scandal or forced to pick up trash alongside the highway in a bright orange jumpsuit.

No, character, integrity and intestinal fortitude aren't going to show up on any NFL measurables, but they are what truly show the value of a prospect.

As he proved time and time again throughout his career nothing keeps White down.

Career ending knee injury No. 1--result? He comes back to win the starting job again.

Career ending knee injury No. 2--result? He comes back to win the Heisman trophy and returns for a sixth year to rewrite virtually every OU passing record.

Going undrafted in this year's draft--result? Yet to be determined. But just another knockdown. Because as White has proven--it isn't about the number of times you get knocked down, it's how many times you can get up.

Here's betting he will find a way to do just that, yet again.

[Guest El Satanico]

White will be a journeyman backup QB at best.

[Damaramu 0]

See well it doesn't even look like he's going to get that shot. It's almost as if he's being blackballed by the NFL. I mean is it a vendetta over not deserving the Heisman or the 2 national title games? What is it? Because as pointed out there are guys with worse problems and less talent than White that were given a chance.

I mean the fucking Dallas Cowboys only have 3 QB's and they all suck. What would it hurt to see how he does? Give him a try out. I'm almost positive you don't have to pay him much.

 

However he has said that if he does not get a free agent contract he will come back to coach at OU.

[CanadianChris 0]

Jason White is destined to be another great college quarterback who will never have any kind of meaningful career in the pros. He's been labelled as not having a pro arm, and that's going to stick with him. Character only gets you so far.

 

He'll be in great company -- look at guys like Wuerffel, Ward, Frazier, and Crouch. All outstanding college QBs whose games never translated to the pros.

[CanadianChris 0]

See well it doesn't even look like he's going to get that shot. It's almost as if he's being blackballed by the NFL. I mean is it a vendetta over not deserving the Heisman or the 2 national title games? What is it? Because as pointed out there are guys with worse problems and less talent than White that were given a chance.

Don't even start.

[Guest El Satanico]

Yes, it's a vendetta against Jason White, now you know the secret.

 

Every team secretly knows Jason White will be the next great QB, but all of them decided to pass because they have a vendetta against him. Now honestly, do you really believe that is what's going on?

[iggymcfly 0]

See well it doesn't even look like he's going to get that shot. It's almost as if he's being blackballed by the NFL. I mean is it a vendetta over not deserving the Heisman or the 2 national title games? What is it? Because as pointed out there are guys with worse problems and less talent than White that were given a chance.

I mean the fucking Dallas Cowboys only have 3 QB's and they all suck. What would it hurt to see how he does? Give him a try out. I'm almost positive you don't have to pay him much.

 

However he has said that if he does not get a free agent contract he will come back to coach at OU.

You know. I was kind of disappointed that Dama was being so rational on the whole thing instead of giving us a chance to rip into him in such a funny situation. Well, he sure shattered that.

 

A vendetta? A vendetta? Are you kidding me?

 

Most NFL GMs would draft Osama Bin Laden if they thought that he could help them win another game next year. Of all the sports in the world, the NFL spends the most time analyzing every prospect in-depth to see who has the most potential value.

 

The fact of the matter is that Jason White is a gimmicky QB who can't handle pressure, can't handle a good defense, doesn't have an NFL arm, and wouldn't be able to contribute to an NFL franchise in the near future.

 

The New England Patriots know a little bit about recognizing talent, and if they picked Matt Cassel over Jason White, it's because they saw that he was a better QB who had a more potential as a pro.

[Guest MikeSC]

Here's a good column by a guy I work with. It makes sense if you look at it in a rational context and not an "OMG they lost the last two games I hate that state" context.

 

NFL: bad pass on White

Staff Column

 

<snip>

 

It was the several other knocks on White that hurt him.

* Knock No. 1--"the talent that White had around him enabled him to put up the numbers he did."

Sure, that is true, with OU sending three wide receivers to the NFL in the first three rounds it's obvious White was throwing to some super-talented players.

But is Matt Leinart's supporting cast any less talented? Was Ken Dorsey's? Nope, but somehow the gangly Miami quarterback whose workouts apparently nearly drew chuckles from NFL scouts was drafted by the 49ers--because he won football games. Gee, that sounds familiar.

And considering what a bang-up job Dorsey has done in the NFL to date --- is this REALLY a reason to draft White?

 

"Yeah, you screwed up with Dorsey. You should screw up again with White!!"

* Knock No. 2--"he doesn't have an NFL arm."

White's arm strength isn't going to blow anyone away but is that more valuable than turning the football over? White threw 75 touchdown passes to just 19 interceptions in 2003 and 2004, which is something that no other quarterback, yes, even those drafted, can boast.

College stats are insanely overrated. He threw for a ton of TD's against the likes of Baylor. Impressed, I am not.

* Knock No. 3--"he can't stay healthy."

Right again. To say White was injury-plagued while at OU could be the understatement of the year but that didn't seem to stop teams from drafting other injury-prone players.

Miami running back, Frank Gore, who was drafted in round three, is one. Gore, who tore his anterior cruciate ligament in the Hurricane's spring game in 2002 and again in 2003 came back from both knee surgeries, just as White did--minus the production.

Gore was 1) a very dumb pick and 2) more talented when healthy than White was at his position.

As the draft got down closer and closer to number 255, Mel Kiper and company all wondered aloud when White's name would be called.

Somehow teams would take chances on players such as Matt Cassel, who was Leinart's backup at USC.

The Patriots took the former starter in round seven and must have seen something more than his 2004 stats: 14 pass attempts, zero touchdowns and one interception--interesting choice to say the least.

Tom Brady didn't have impressive stats in college. I trust the Pats' judgment.

But maybe the biggest head-scratchers came when players such as Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett and former FSU quarterback Adrian McPherson's names were called.

Clarett, whose troubles with the NCAA and failed court battle to break into the NFL as a sophomore have been well documented. But the kicker is that he also actually quit during his pro workout because of a slow 40 time, and most mock drafts had him possibly going undrafted. So what happens? The Denver Broncos select him with the last pick in the third round.

Again, idiotic picks don't justify MORE idiotic picks. Just because Denver picked a useless back like Clarett doesn't mean other teams have to pick up a QB they don't believe in like White.

McPherson was booted from the Seminole's roster after stealing a blank check and cashing it as well as being accused of betting on Florida State football games, only to be removed from the program and college football for good. McPherson then heads to the Arena League and after a successful year enters the NFL draft and is selected by New Orleans in the fifth round.

While we're on the subject of "character," maybe the NFL should have read a little more into White's--a player who wasn't involved in any off-the-field scandal or forced to pick up trash alongside the highway in a bright orange jumpsuit.

The NFL was impressed with Adrian's athletic potential. Not saying drafting for potential is great --- but drafting for character might be even MORE idiotic.

Career ending knee injury No. 1--result? He comes back to win the starting job again.

Beating out...who?

Career ending knee injury No. 2--result? He comes back to win the Heisman trophy and returns for a sixth year to rewrite virtually every OU passing record.

Hasn't OU been a run-dominant school for damned near ever?

Going undrafted in this year's draft--result? Yet to be determined. But just another knockdown. Because as White has proven--it isn't about the number of times you get knocked down, it's how many times you can get up.

Here's betting he will find a way to do just that, yet again.

I'd take a chance on him as a free agent.

 

As a draft pick? Nope.

-=Mike

[MrRant 0]

I'm still waiting for an OU player to get caught dealing drugs on campus and watch Dama defend him not being drafted because it's a vendetta....

[nogoodnick 0]

I wonder if Dama would bust an OU football player misbehaving in the library.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm still waiting for an OU player to get caught dealing drugs on campus and watch Dama defend him not being drafted because it's a vendetta....

The people buying them would have been Texas fans, so the OU player would be innocent and all.

-=Mike

[Damaramu 0]

I never said it is a vendetta. I asked IF it was. They said on the radio today it almost seemed like he was blackballed. Nobody has said he is being or it IS a vendetta. Read it again before you jump on me.

 

And about defending OU over all else. Let me just say this. I'm being put on a story next semester.....some rumblings have been coming about and my new editor thinks that it may be true but we're going to wait till football season to actually dig. I can't say what(though you can probably all guess) but if I reveal it then it will DESTROY the football program and I have no problem doing that if it advances my career. That simple.

 

Anyways even if White doesn't make it I'm still happy the NFL guys and ESPN guys are all creaming their pants over Mark Clayton. He deserves it.

[CanadianChris 0]

I never said it is a vendetta. I asked IF it was. They said on the radio today it almost seemed like he was blackballed. Nobody has said he is being or it IS a vendetta. Read it again before you jump on me.

To even suggest the possibility out loud is ludicrous. That's what everyone's saying.

[Damaramu 0]

I never said it is a vendetta. I asked IF it was. They said on the radio today it almost seemed like he was blackballed. Nobody has said he is being or it IS a vendetta. Read it again before you jump on me.

To even suggest the possibility out loud is ludicrous. That's what everyone's saying.

Well it makes no sense to me!

According to him and his agent what every NFL team is saying to him is "You're a great player but a medical liability."

That's just absurd though b/c of the fact Frank Gore got drafted and there are people that are bigger liabilities than him out there. Not to mention there's people that he's much more talented than going before him.

[Guest El Satanico]

If an NFL team believes that a player has NFL talent, they will look past medical/character/age issues.

[Damaramu 0]

If an NFL team believes that a player has NFL talent, they will look past medical/character/age issues.

Well that's not what he's being told. He's being told that he's a medical liability.

[Guest El Satanico]

If an NFL team believes that a player has NFL talent, they will look past medical/character/age issues.

Well that's not what he's being told. He's being told that he's a medical liability.

You missed a key part of what I said.

 

If teams are passing for medical reasons, then they must not be sold on his talent at the NFL level. If any team believes he has NFL talent, he will be on a roster for the upcoming training camp.

[Guest MikeSC]

I never said it is a vendetta. I asked IF it was. They said on the radio today it almost seemed like he was blackballed. Nobody has said he is being or it IS a vendetta. Read it again before you jump on me.

To even suggest the possibility out loud is ludicrous. That's what everyone's saying.

Well it makes no sense to me!

According to him and his agent what every NFL team is saying to him is "You're a great player but a medical liability."

That's just absurd though b/c of the fact Frank Gore got drafted and there are people that are bigger liabilities than him out there. Not to mention there's people that he's much more talented than going before him.

Frank Gore is an infinitely more talented RB than White was a QB.

 

When you have a lot of talent, an injury will be overlooked (see McGahee, Willis)

-=Mike