The OaO NFL Draft 2005 Thread

[Damaramu 0]

I never said it is a vendetta. I asked IF it was. They said on the radio today it almost seemed like he was blackballed. Nobody has said he is being or it IS a vendetta. Read it again before you jump on me.

To even suggest the possibility out loud is ludicrous. That's what everyone's saying.

Well it makes no sense to me!

According to him and his agent what every NFL team is saying to him is "You're a great player but a medical liability."

That's just absurd though b/c of the fact Frank Gore got drafted and there are people that are bigger liabilities than him out there. Not to mention there's people that he's much more talented than going before him.

Frank Gore is an infinitely more talented RB than White was a QB.

 

When you have a lot of talent, an injury will be overlooked (see McGahee, Willis)

-=Mike

How is White not a talented QB? His numbers don't lie. The fact that he was a running QB that couldn't throw for shit and reinvented himself after his knee injuries speaks load about his talent and determination.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I don't like talk of overlooked players in the draft. For the most part teams have a reason for passing on a guy for seven rounds. Sure guys like Brady, and Davis turn out to be steals...but does that mean they should of been drafted higher than they did? I don't necessarily think so. 1. neither was a standout in college, 2. the maturation process takes time for individual players.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Not to mention Brady already had a year and a couple games of NFL experience before getting his first start, and that Davis was lucky enough to play in what is obviously a great system. Alex Gibbs proved his prowess yet again last year in Atlanta as well.

 

How is White not a talented QB? His numbers don't lie. The fact that he was a running QB that couldn't throw for shit and reinvented himself after his knee injuries speaks load about his talent and determination.

Apparently you still haven't gotten the point about college success not directly translating to NFL success. Andre Ware, Ty Detmer, and the like all have their names eternally recorded in the NCAA record book. None of them did shit in the NFL. Granted, a good reason why successful college QB's don't translate well to the pros is because they're usually drafted by teams desperate to get a new start and think getting a rookie QB would be an instant solution to their problems (see: the Cincinnati Bengals) instead of addressing the other needs of their team.

 

However, NFL prospects are analyzed and scrutinized probably far more than in any other sport, and there was certainly a few reasons why he didn't get drafted after 7 rounds. Just because YOU think he should have been drafted, doesn't necessarily mean he had the talent and intangibles necessary to succeed or even be looked at, at the next level.

 

In fact, an interesting question would be how many players at top programs across the country also come in to the NFL and succeed there? Has there been any great NFL QB that won a national championship as well as a Super Bowl? Oklahoma has had a great team for a while, but it bears repeating again: NCAA success does not equal NFL success. If you're the diamond in the rough on a bad defense on a bad team, but you can still contribute and rack up double digits in tackles or consistently pressure the QB, or shutdown opposing receivers, you can still be successful in the pros. Just because Jason White was the starting QB on a national championship contender (which, by the way, since it's still going by the BCS system, is debatable) doesn't mean he was responsible for his team's success.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

As far as Matt Cassel is concerned, from what I heard he was picked more for size and athleticism than for anything he's done as a quarterback. He might be the 7th round version of Matt Jones or something.

[Damaramu 0]

Just because Jason White was the starting QB on a national championship contender (which, by the way, since it's still going by the BCS system, is debatable) doesn't mean he was responsible for his team's success.

Even if they didn't belong in the National Title there is no debating that they were a great team and a Top 5 team those years(i mean they finished #3 both seasons)and he was leading that team.

[Guest El Satanico]

And once again, what White did or didn't do in college is meaningless when dicussing his NFL hopes.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Not to mention he speaks as if they lived and died by Jason White, when he was clearly not even among their top 10 (at least according to NFL scouts)

[Damaramu 0]

Not to mention he speaks as if they lived and died by Jason White, when he was clearly not even among their top 10 (at least according to NFL scouts)

They didn't live and die by him but I mean the team would've been nowhere near as good without him.

The best player drafted from OU was obviously Mark Clayton.

But I mean I don't think just anybody would've thrown 40 TD's and only 5 picks the year they went to the Sugar Bowl.

 

And how could you not like the dude's attitude? I mean he had the knee injuries and he fought back. He had the horrible Sugar Bowl and everyone called him a bum and told him to quit and he came back and still finished in the Top 3 in Heisman voting and took his team to the national title game. And yeah his team got whipped hard but he still had a better game than he had the year before. And then there's his accuracy which is deadly.

[iggymcfly 0]

Plug in BJ Symons for Jason White, and he gets similar statistics, and the team does just as well.

 

In fact, I'd do you one better, and say that if Jason White had played for Texas Tech that year, he probably wouldn't have been able to set the NCAA single-season passing record.

 

Symons not getting drafted was more of an oversight than White.

[Damaramu 0]

Plug in BJ Symons for Jason White, and he gets similar statistics, and the team does just as well.

 

In fact, I'd do you one better, and say that if Jason White had played for Texas Tech that year, he probably wouldn't have been able to set the NCAA single-season passing record.

 

Symons not getting drafted was more of an oversight than White.

I'm pretty sure Symons was drafted in the later rounds last year.

 

Symons would not have done what White did. Nobody would've at OU that year. White was special. That simple. He didn't win a Heisman for no reason. You're saying Symons would've been a Heisman winner? White threw 5 picks that whole season. Symons threw 5 against OU.

Not to mention that White led that team better than anyone else. His leadership ability is another thing that makes him special. His positives outweigh his negatives.

 

Positives: Good attitude, ability to reinvent self and improve, leadership ability, pinpoint accuracy, cool head in most situations(yeah in the Orange Bowl he didn't do as well but remember the OSU and Texas A&M games against hostile crowds where he refused to break?)

 

Negatives: not an ultra-strong arm, not as mobile as he should be, injury prone(didn't suffer any injuries this past season), and age(makes jacking off motion)

[iggymcfly 0]

I guess he did get taken in the seventh round, but he never actually spent any time on a roster, as he was immediately allocated to NFL Europe.

 

Anyway, White only looked special when he had a talent advantage. If he had one big game against a good defense, I'd cede to you that he got screwed, but he never did. In the three biggest challenges of his college career, he played shitty every single time.

 

When the habit is that he plays shitty whenever he plays a team with equivalent talent, that's a sign that he's not that good of a quarterback.

 

I know it seems like a Heisman Trophy should mean automatically that the guy can get it done, but a lot of times in college football, the system can allow a mediocre player to excel. Remember Josh Heupel nearly won a Heisman under Stoops as well, and I don't see him lighting up the professional football world right now either.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I can't believe this OU bullshit has started already and we still have 4 months till college football starts.

[CanadianChris 0]

In fact, an interesting question would be how many players at top programs across the country also come in to the NFL and succeed there? Has there been any great NFL QB that won a national championship as well as a Super Bowl?

Only two: Joe Namath (Alabama, 1964-1965) and Joe Montana (Notre Dame, 1977). Ken Stabler was a backup to Namath both of those years as well.

[Damaramu 0]

I guess he did get taken in the seventh round, but he never actually spent any time on a roster, as he was immediately allocated to NFL Europe.

 

Anyway, White only looked special when he had a talent advantage. If he had one big game against a good defense, I'd cede to you that he got screwed, but he never did. In the three biggest challenges of his college career, he played shitty every single time.

 

When the habit is that he plays shitty whenever he plays a team with equivalent talent, that's a sign that he's not that good of a quarterback.

 

I know it seems like a Heisman Trophy should mean automatically that the guy can get it done, but a lot of times in college football, the system can allow a mediocre player to excel. Remember Josh Heupel nearly won a Heisman under Stoops as well, and I don't see him lighting up the professional football world right now either.

Yes but he performed under huge pressure against OSU and A&M in front of hostile crowds last year. He did the same against KSU this past year as well.

Against USC though his numbers were worlds better than the Sugar Bowl. You can't deny that. And you can't deny that OU's offense lost that game it was the defense. Sure he had that one pick where he threw it into a Trojan defensive hddle and that will probably stick out in a lot of people's minds.

 

Heupel isn't lighting anything up b/c his first year in the league he had a career ending hand injury.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

In fact, an interesting question would be how many players at top programs across the country also come in to the NFL and succeed there? Has there been any great NFL QB that won a national championship as well as a Super Bowl?

Only two: Joe Namath (Alabama, 1964-1965) and Joe Montana (Notre Dame, 1977). Ken Stabler was a backup to Namath both of those years as well.

Huh. I'd figured it'd have been more than that.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Does Tom Brady count even though he was sitting on the bench?

[CanadianChris 0]

I don't know why I'm even bothering getting into this, but time for a MikeSC special:

 

Yes but he performed under huge pressure against OSU and A&M in front of hostile crowds last year. He did the same against KSU this past year as well.

KSU was crap last year and everyone knew it. Neither Oklahoma State nor Texas A&M had a decent defense. None of them would qualify as a stern test of the Sooners offense.

 

Against USC though his numbers were worlds better than the Sugar Bowl.  You can't deny that.

No. But looking at a QB's final line in a blowout says nothing. Hell, he should have had better numbers than he ended up with.

 

And you can't deny that OU's offense lost that game it was the defense.

The Trojans had three scoring drives of ten yards or less. That's a result of turnovers, two of which were White INTs.

 

Sure he had that one pick where he threw it into a Trojan defensive hddle and that will probably stick out in a lot of people's minds.

NFL personnel guys don't draft or pass on people because of one good or bad play. And THIRTY-TWO NFL GMs don't pass on a guy seven times just because he threw a bad pick in the Orange Bowl.

[CanadianChris 0]

Does Tom Brady count even though he was sitting on the bench?

I actually remembered Brady, but no, I didn't count him.

[Damaramu 0]

You make very valid points Chris. But he's still not this bum that everyone is making him out to be. The guy is a talented QB and I don't think just anyone could've competed at OU like he did. Yes he was surrounded by good talent but so was the rest of the team. Is Clayton only good b/c of who was throwing him the ball? Because it seems like you guys are saying White is only good b/c of who he was throwing the ball too.

[CanadianChris 0]

You make very valid points Chris. But he's still not this bum that everyone is making him out to be. The guy is a talented QB and I don't think just anyone could've competed at OU like he did. Yes he was surrounded by good talent but so was the rest of the team.

I agree. He was a talented college QB who maximized his potential at OU. But when everybody in an NFL front office doesn't want to risk a draft pick on you, that has to say something about yur potential to play at the pro level. His limited mobility and inferior arm strength (I also saw one report say he had a slow release, which is DEATH in the NFL) made him someone no one wanted to use up a pick for.

 

There's another way of looking at this, too -- if everyone thought he'd go undrafted, why spend a pick on him when you could work him out after the draft and answer any lingering questions you might have?

 

Then again, he might be a better coach than player anyway. He seems plenty smart enough.

[Damaramu 0]

Well I mean I'd rather him go to the Arena League than coach b/c I want to see him succeed playing football. And I want to see him do what he loves. But if he can't I'm all for him becoming a coach. He says he wants to come back to OU as a strength and conditioning coach. I don't know about that but I think he could work on the offensive side of the ball like Josh Heupel did.

 

Maybe there is something to the talent on OU's offense. Stoops has had 3 starting QB's. One of them(heupel) hurt his hand and never played again. Another one(Hybl) was bounced around on NFL practice squads before finally being shipped to NFL Europe and the last one(Jason White) looks like he's going the coaching route. Maybe Stoops really does know how to find system QB's that do what he wants. I guess that speaks more for Stoops and the talent he has on the team.

 

But I mean I'd like to see him go but it looks like he isn't so I mean he should probably call it a career and jump into coaching.

 

Even if White didn't make it 11 other Sooners(plus a 12th Will Peoples is supposed to sign with the Bills) are all going to the NFL. And Clayton everyone thinks will be a superstar.

[MrRant 0]

Why must you repeat yourself constantly?

[Guest El Satanico]

We're not saying that White is a bum that has no chance of being an NFL QB. We're just saying that 32 NFL teams have enough doubts about his NFL talent that they decided he isn't worth a draft pick.

 

We shouldn't even be talking about this, until we know if he's been picked up as a UDFA. If White gets picked up as a UDFA, then this discussion has been pointless.

[Bored 0]

Wow I'm shocked Damaramu managed to make the focus of this thread to be about Jason White. Shocked. Really. Didn't see it coming.

[Damaramu 0]

Wow I'm shocked Damaramu managed to make the focus of this thread to be about Jason White. Shocked. Really. Didn't see it coming.

Hey I've tried repeatedly to bring up Mark Clayton. But there's no controversy there. Everyone knows he rules and will be good. With White there is controversy and a better discussion.

I mean with Clayton I just say "He's awesome and will be a solid NFL player" and everyone says "I know."

[Brett Favre 0]

This thread doesn't have to be on an OU player. It could be on the NFL Draft and all the other players.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Wow I'm shocked Damaramu managed to make the focus of this thread to be about Jason White. Shocked. Really. Didn't see it coming.

Hey I've tried repeatedly to bring up Mark Clayton. But there's no controversy there. Everyone knows he rules and will be good. With White there is controversy and a better discussion.

I mean with Clayton I just say "He's awesome and will be a solid NFL player" and everyone says "I know."

You're acting like bringing up OTHER OU football players makes you look any better.

 

I still like the Rodgers pick for the Packers. When you have a potential #1 drop down to 24, your QB was actually thinking of retiring THIS Year, and that draft pick has the chance to learn under one of the best, it's not too bad. They couldn't have gotten anyone that would have been an immediate impact player anyway, might as well go for the most important offensive position. What would a guy like Dan Cody have done for you this year? Not that great, certainly not enough to pass up on a guy like Rodgers who might be able to do so much more for the future. Unlike VX, I'm not sold on guys like Craig Nall.

 

Stupid Bills didn't get rid of Henry when they had the chance, now they might get nothing for him. They were being offered what they needed, a LT and they STILL didn't take it. Sometimes Tom Donahoe can be a real moron.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Cena's Writer beat me to it.

[Damaramu 0]

This thread doesn't have to be on an OU player. It could be on the NFL Draft and all the other players.

Well then somebody fucking talk about it! Quit responding to me if you really don't want to talk about it! Jesus christ!

 

How about the 3 top 5 RB's? Who will have the best career? Who will have the worst? I think Ronnie Brown was better than the rest of them and can make an immediate impact.

What about Smith? Think he will be able to help SF at all this season?

The Ravens seem to have addressed their needs. How about them?

Will the Browns not suck again after this draft?

How will Jason Campbell do? I think he was a great pick.

[Guest MikeSC]

Wow I'm shocked Damaramu managed to make the focus of this thread to be about Jason White. Shocked. Really. Didn't see it coming.

Hey I've tried repeatedly to bring up Mark Clayton. But there's no controversy there. Everyone knows he rules and will be good. With White there is controversy and a better discussion.

I mean with Clayton I just say "He's awesome and will be a solid NFL player" and everyone says "I know."

You're acting like bringing up OTHER OU football players makes you look any better.

 

I still like the Rodgers pick for the Packers. When you have a potential #1 drop down to 24, your QB was actually thinking of retiring THIS Year, and that draft pick has the chance to learn under one of the best, it's not too bad. They couldn't have gotten anyone that would have been an immediate impact player anyway, might as well go for the most important offensive position. What would a guy like Dan Cody have done for you this year? Not that great, certainly not enough to pass up on a guy like Rodgers who might be able to do so much more for the future. Unlike VX, I'm not sold on guys like Craig Nall.

 

Stupid Bills didn't get rid of Henry when they had the chance, now they might get nothing for him. They were being offered what they needed, a LT and they STILL didn't take it. Sometimes Tom Donahoe can be a real moron.

I don't see why Donahue assumed a 2nd pick AND LT should be considered good value for Travis Henry. I like Henry just fine, but solid RB's just aren't THAT rare. I'd take an LT OR a 2nd round pick --- but expecting both? Tom was bloody insane.

 

BTW, who the heck are the backup QB's for Buffalo?

-=Mike